Voacanga seeds in quarantine

[gomaos]

Im ordered 1 ounce of voacanga seeds from lambo and he very promptly sent them too.

Thanks , lambo.

The things is, a few days ago i got a letter from customs that the seeds are being held in quarantine, that Australia has very strict laws about such things and that I should inform my supplier in future not to send such things to Australia.

If I pay $42, the seeds will be treated and then forwarded to me.

If I do nothing, they will just be destroyed, no charge (too generous).

I've asked Torsten about it, and he said Quarantine treatmentn will render them unviable But perhaps they could still be "consumed"?

Now it says on the customs letter, that there are 80 g of seeds there... I expected only 28 g (1 ounce)

Now if they're really 80 g, $42 would be a small price to pay, are customs officers to stupid to weigh them properly?

Also, does anyone know how they treat the seeds for quarantine? Hot water baths, deadly poisons?

Any advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated...

[Happy Cadaver]

I think its with something like Methyl Bromide gas. Not sure about lingering toxicity however.

wot did u want them for? consumption or to grow?

[Guest Psilo_smylin]

Hi gomaos,

don't take that shit from them man.

they're full of shit, I got a letter from AQUIS asking if I wanted to pay $42 (+ 15 for every 5min after) to be supervised to clean some syrian rue seeds that I payed $40 for.

IMO They are just trying to get revenue.

I enquired as to what equipment I should bring, what pest risk they were targeting etc.

and was told that the seeds were unclean and I would need to "sift" them.

I thought the problems (quarentine risks) were usually microscopic ie fungi & disease within the seeds, but no apparently I could just seive the problem out.

Thats right no steaming or exposure to UV light and no chemical treatment....FU*KING SIEVES

(I gotto calm down)

What a crock of shit though.

Does this make sense to anyone or am I just too pissed off to see the logic.

Grrrrrrrrr

[gomaos]

Originally posted by darcy:

I think its with something like Methyl Bromide gas. Not sure about lingering toxicity however.

wot did u want them for? consumption or to grow?

Actually, I wanted to grow most of them. I wouldn't have minded the odd consumption just to remember what it's like....

I might still send them the 42 bucks and see if a few will germinate.

And LAMBO, please don't take this too seriously, Australia is really DUMB with their quarantine laws, the first time I came to this country I couldn't believe what I saw: There was actually a quarantine officer walking up and down the plane with spray cans in his hands and spraying US, the new arrivals in this country, god knows what germs we may have been carrying.

Having travelled through the whole of asia before, even REDNECK SINGAPORE hadn't behaved that stupidly.

If someone else orders from you, Lambo, give it another go, maybe this time they'll get through.

I'm gonna pay the $42 as soon as I can afford it....

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Psilo_smylin:

IMO They are just trying to get revenue.

I enquired as to what equipment I should bring, what pest risk they were targeting etc.

and was told that the seeds were unclean and I would need to "sift" them.

You seed probably has seed pod dust in it. This they allow to sift out.

What they get most upset about is soil. There are standards advertised on their site and a quick read later you know exactly what you are allowed and what not. So there is no need to get pissed at them. Find out beforehand and then make sure you get your seed from a reliable supplier who can follow such protocols.

I have my differences with quarantine on a regular basis, but in principle I agree with their existence. They are just a little misguided.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by lambo:

I can now only assume that ALL SEEDS are now banished in Australia.

now that's plain silly. I advise several overseas retailers in this regard. Feel free to e-mail me if you need details on the situation of a particular species. I keep up to date with all relevant laws.

T.orientalis and T. iboga are no prohibited due to quarantine. In fact I got quarantine clearance for iboga only to get busted by customs a couple of years ago. Ibogaine is a prohibited import under schedule 4 (drugs) of the customs act. Customs deems any material that contains an illegal substance to be that substance. Obviously they don't know many of them, but iboga is one that they are well aware of.

By not supplyign australians with your product you are supporting what they are trying to achieve. I think it is important to not just roll over for them and to exploit any loophole. In any case, the sender is never responsible for customs or quarantine problems as long as the paperwork is truthful and the material isn't illegal in the source country.

[gomaos]

Originally posted by Torsten:

[

I have my differences with quarantine on a regular basis, but in principle I agree with their existence. They are just a little misguided.

I just think they super-paranoid and are behaving like psychopaths about germs and diseases and hatever may come into Australia.

Their methods may have been efficient in the last century, they cannot stop today's diseases entering the country anyway with all the airplane traffic and all these different people coming into the country, unless they TREAT EVERYONE'S SUITCASES, BACKPACKS ETC. which they don't.

It's really plain stupidity and revenue-making.

Also, I really have no-one else but myself to blame for this. before I ordered the seeds, I asked on the forums if it was alright to order them, and was consequently told that I MAY have problems.

I went ahead anyway.

Now I have problems. Anyhu, I'll just send them a cheque today.

No fault of lambos, keep up the good work and don't be repelled by this.

[This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 16 December 2001).]

[This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 16 December 2001).]

[Guest Psilo_smylin]

I agree that we need quarantine, only I can't get my head around their motives/ methods.

If the material in question is really a threat, then destroy it no questions asked.

But I have seen the P.harmala seeds from P.J and the grit mixed in with it is mostly broken pieces of seed capsule with some tiny stones aswell.

So how can a stone or a piece of seed capsule be more of a risk than the seed itself.

Should't I be able to argue this logic with them.

I don't understand.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Psilo_smylin:

So how can a stone or a piece of seed capsule be more of a risk than the seed itself.

Stones would be in the same category as soil. This is the greatest danger and the most common reason for losing shipments. Almost every country in the world has such tight quarantine regulation on soil - australia is no exception.

What is also important is the source country of the material. Anything from the US and western Europe breezes through, while parcels from African countries are almost guaranteed to be opened. There are several african countries where we are not allowed to import any untreated organic matter from.

The seed husks are dead organic matter. This often carries fungus. Fungus is a living organism and as such an illegal import.

I do not believe AQIS to be a revenue exercise. Their work is important. What dismays me about them is the focus on industry and agriculture. A couple of year ago when I had a lot of intimate dealings with them I occasionally probed them as to their attitude re weeds invading rainforests etc. It was like talking to a brick wall. However as soon as I mentioned weeds that may taint milk, or seeds that contaminate wool, the were full of information. As I don't believe that cattle and sheep should be in australia in such numbers I really don't give a rat's ass about these matters. So I have made my own version of the WRA (weed risk assessment) omitting these issues, but including several environmental factors. I am sure that over time the WRA will change this way anyway. I believe AQIS should be a dept of the environment ministry rather than the primary industries ministry.

[Guest Psilo_smylin]

Okay,

I'm not disputing anyones view on the need for quarantine I agree with that....

Its the process,

Q.

Hypothetically if I had a bag full of ripe oranges and added 3 rocks covered with fungus X spores (ie pennicillan).

Removing the 3 rocks a few days later would:

A.Reduce the chance of a rock invasion amongst our best orange producing areas

B.Minimise the risk, of competition between Australian grown and overseas rock varieties

C.Stop the spread of fungus X ever reaching orange growing regions

D.Do nothing much at all, (exept frustrate Psilo_smylin) because the fungus X spores would have been mixed in with the orange and possibly started growing aready.

And the Answer is:

[Darklight]

Sounds to me like he agrees with the aims and objectives of such a place, but disagrees with their focus.

[Torsten]

verbose and still no clearer

It is perfectly legal to order any seed into australia (except the drug prohibited ones). It is the duty of the quarantine service to inspect any properly declared seed and to decide on its fate. As they only open about 10% of all parcels this leaves a pretty wide error margin.

It is probably not legal to import a seed that you have ordered once and have been refused entry for.

As for the misguided aims or quarantine, they really don't give a toss about environmental weeds. Only in the ast 2 or 3 years have these even become a topic for them. All they care about is our 'way of life' (as it states on the brochures) by protecting the beef, wool, wheat and sugar industries.

[Torsten]

with 'verbose' I meant the AQIS pages.....

[Guest Nozzle Boy]

I hate people who think they're clever to take drugs …

… like customs officers.

[gomaos]

OKAY I GOT SOME NEWS....

Don't whether they're good but there's a potential...

Just rang quarantine and asked them what the seeds would be treated with and so on...

He had al long look and said, they can't find them on their computer and what they are....

I told him they're rainforest plants, rare, threatened by extinctintion....

he said he needs some INFORMATION on them and if I could provide it...

I said yeah I'll ask the supplier forit...

now here's one for all experienced ppl here;

give them some good information, and perhaps voacanga will be a legal species soon, someone help please...

oh yeah, and if they're satisfied, the seeds won't be treated....

[Torsten]

What will happen now is that he will send you a WRA and you will have to fill it in. The AQIS officer cannot make this decision by himself. It has to be done by 'nursery stock' in canberra, which has their own botanists.

What may happen also is that they look this up on the web, find one of the suppliers who lists ibogaine as a constituent and then voacanga will be on the customs prohibited list forever (that's what happened in the US). Dealing with AQIS or customs officials is always dangerous.

[Torsten]

test

[Torsten]

Originally posted by lambo:

Australian Customs Service

for our purposes only schedule 4 of the customs act applies. quite simple, albeit comprehensive. Note: schedule 4 is different for imports and exports.

Environment Australia

for our purposes this applies only to endangered species listed under CITES.

Therapeutic Goods Administration

for our purposes this applies only to Catha edulis and Piper methysticum.

Australian 'prohibited imports' under the Australian Customs Service(ACS) is regulated by AQIS.

what a load of toss! Prohibited imports are regulated by their respective agencies. AQIS is solely responsible for quarantine matters and acts under the federal quarantine act and the corresponding state acts. Customs operates under the Customs act and is enforced by the customs service. The two have precious little in common. once you have dealt with both of them you will find AQIS to be much easier to deal with than customs!!

Biological Imports that pass AQIS have PASSED ACS.

Another blow in the dark. Anything cleared by AQIS still has to be cleared by customs. I go through this procedure with every FEDEX parcel I get, at least twice a month. First the pricks at AQIS delay me for a week then the pricks at ACS do the same.

I have obtained AQIS clearance for many items that were then rejected by ACS. The most prominent was the Iboga seed matter where AQIS cleared me just so the pricks from customs could prosecute me. On the other hand if I would have obtained a customs clearance for the seed (fat chance) it would have gotten through. It has been assessed by AQIS as a permitted import. Thus, if you get an ACS permit it would be quite legal to import.

Voacanga africana seeds are LEGAL to import into Australia, since Voacangine is not listed on the Australia Schedule of Controlled Substances.

You're really pulling stuff out if thin air today lambo. Traces of ibogaine have been found in voacanga seeds and this is documented on several ethnobotany sites. This would be enough for them to become a customs schedule 4 prohibited import. This would be regardless of what the outcome of the AQIS WRA is.

US customs banned voacanga seeds on a similar basis. They went to the website of the supplier, who claimed (falsely) that the seeds contained large amounts of ibogaine and banned them on that basis.

However, AQIS, ACS, EA, TGA, wants paperwork!

You seem to have no grasp of the realities of the process and no amount of reading websites is going to provide this. AQIS makes their decison on the basis of the WRA. It's just a form where you fill in as much as you know about the plant and their botanists do the rest. It's really quite and easy and friendly process.

ACS won't even talk to you. If they have a question they will insist that you get a customs broker.

EA doesn't get involved - ever. Any offence under EA legislation is dealt with by customs under the customs act.

TGA is the only one that wants to be smothered in paperwork, just so they can politely tell you to fuck off. If they get a hint of recreational herb, aphrodisiac or smart drug, they send a whole horde of inspectors out to you to 'interview' you. Unless you have a TGA approved pharmaceutical processing lab you are unlikely to be allowed the things you want from them.

An online search for Voacanga africana seeds on:

Australian Customs Service, Environment Australia, Therapeutic Goods Administration, revealed no documents.

ACS is the only relevant one here, provided Voacanga is permitted under quarantine. I doubt it will be as it is quite prolific in tropical areas and has little economic or ornamental value (in their eyes). Most Tabernaemontana sp are prohibited and this is probably what they will compare it to.

Voacanga does not need to be listed in the customs schedules to be prohibited. The simple fact that it contains ibogaine places it under that schedule.

[gomaos]

Originally posted by Torsten:

[

The most prominent was the Iboga seed matter where AQIS cleared me just so the pricks from customs could prosecute me.

So maybe should I just let it go and let them destroy the seeds, otherwise they"ll prosecute me?

[Darklight]

Um, wasn't lambo here a minute ago? What happened to all his posts?

echo...echo..echo...

[Veronica]

Originally posted by Darklight:

Um, wasn't lambo here a minute ago? What happened to all his posts?

echo...echo..echo...

I think our Lambo has shit him self and done a runner....

His post in "Legality of cannabis pollen" have gone to?

[Guest Nozzle Boy]

Oh good onya Torsten ! He he he.

[Torsten]

Pity lambo left. Most of his posts were substantial and interesting. he is also a knowlegable pharmacologist. But he couldn't take critique at those times when he wrote crap (such as this thread).

Deleting every single one of his posts seems a little childish, but each to his own I guess. Maybe this explains why there is no trace of him on other forums

[G Dawg]

Originally posted by Torsten:

Maybe this explains why there is no trace of him on other forums  

he did the same thing on the poppies.org forum. Someone criticized him due to earlier dealings/appearances on the forum so he left.

Later

[Torsten]

Originally posted by garret:

he did the same thing on the poppies.org forum. Someone criticized him due to earlier dealings/appearances on the forum so he left.

Later

did he do a clean sweep delete of all his contributions there as well??

at least he isn't rude about it, which is the norm on many forums.