Giant Unknown Cactus

[xShiva.spacetechnology]

hey for the past few years ive been constantly walking past this giant cactus on my property, and it is pretty much identical to the specimen in this topic: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...showtopic=14633 and it seems to be in excellent health, but i dont think its had any love for longer then ive been alive, it seems to me to be nearly 20 years old (i may be wrong).

im sorry but i have no pictures at the moment, but as soon as i get back i will get some nice shots. also i was wondering if cereus peruvianus had any traces of active alkaloids?

Also i will have a large number cuttings up for trade if anyone is interested.

i will have pictures in 10 days from today (29th May) ahahaha

peace happy people

Edited May 29, 2007 by xshivaspacetechnologyx

[Ace]

wondering if cereus peruvianus had any traces of active alkaloids?

From what I've read online, there are some very mild actives (probably more the ones like pellotine), but mesc is pretty much non existant if my memory serves me correctly. Might still be worth doing a bioassay if you are really keen to find out I probably wouldnt recommend it though.

[XipeTotec]

it is not believed to contain any interesting alkaloids. but it is said to produce a delicious edible fruit

Edited May 29, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[Coschi]

if i remember correctly tyrosine is a pretty major constituent of the alkaloids

that one in the link is a pretty big mofo

i have no idea what tyrosine may be useful for

[xShiva.spacetechnology]

it is said to produce a delicious edible fruit

do you know what it may look like or when it fruits? does anyone here have experience eating the fruit? most importantly how would one eat it-some sort of preparation ettiquite?

Might still be worth doing a bioassay if you are really keen to find out I probably wouldnt recommend it though.

personally doesnt sound like my cup of tea, but my lab rat might be interested. how would some go around preparing theplant material for ingestion, and what parts of the plant?

thanks again. peace

[Ace]

how would some go around preparing theplant material for ingestion, and what parts of the plant?

I could only assume that the labrat is interested in finding active (hallucinogenic compounds) within the plant? In that case, I'd guess that the labrat would have to do a fwe extractions, most of which would be the same as a simple mescaline extraction. I think you'd need some pretty good gear (labware) to find out what chems are contained in the plant matter tho - namely chromotography (I think).

do you know what it may look like or when it fruits? does anyone here have experience eating the fruit? most importantly how would one eat it-some sort of preparation ettiquite?

I have eaten the fruit of a C. peruvianus v monstrose - it forms red fruits about the size of a golf/tennis ball. Split the fruit in two when it's ripe (nice and bright red) and eat the inner flesh in much the same way as one would consume kiwi/passion fruit. There are heaps of seed within each fruit, which can be picked out, dried and sown for more plants (tried and true - I now have a few C.P.M seedlings ). The fruit is somewhat sweet and rather pleasant to taste, though I'm not sure if its something you would eat everyday - being a rarer fruit, it could have unknown health problems (though, unlikely).

I believe there are proper recipies for the fruit of the opuntia species, the fruit of which are called 'tunas'. There should be some recipies on the net that may apply for C.P. fruit.

[XipeTotec]

being a rarer fruit, it could have unknown health problems (though, unlikely).

i believe it is cultivated in large quantities in central or south america (cant remember which) for its fruit. It is also known as cactus apple.

[xShiva.spacetechnology]

so is this also called "prickly pear" ???

[teonanacatl]

best way to bioassay would be to eat raw or boil some up and eat it, then if you get effects you could start some sort of bioassay guided fractionation of the compounds. The fruits are fine to eat they look like this

http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/peruvian_apple_cactus2.jpg

Just cut in half and eat all the flesh and seeds.

[ENtiTY]

No prickly pear is a different cacti. Had some of those last week. Very nice sweet fruit if you don't mind the seeds .

The fine lil spikes suck though, got one under my tongue! took me for ever to get it out.

[Ace]

Sorry to confuse SST, opunitas are prickly pears (the fruits of which are called 'tunas'). The plant you are talking about - C. peruvianus is commonly called the Peruvian Apple cactus, as has been said above. Named after the fruits, funnily enough

Harry, I know eh - them tiny spines thru the fruit are a real pain! I can vaugely remember trying them as a young fella and having a really itchy and sore mouth from the little spines Lol - they kept me away from em every since tho

[XipeTotec]

not sure if u all know this... but u r supposed to remove the spines before eating!!!!! lol . they r bastards even to get in your hands etc.

[SaBReT00tH]

hell yeah. I once found a nice opuntia growing and was interested in trying to obtain some cuttings for grafting experimentation so I filled my pockets with pups. Little did I know that the spikes came off and the needles went through my pant pockets and clung to the insides. Was narly as bad as being stung by pereskiopsis

Didn't have any plastic bags on me. Stupid thing to do for the love of cacti really, but never again!!!

[ENtiTY]

Unfortunatley the problem with the "Prickly Pear" is that the spikes are so fine they are practically invisible. Its almost impossible not to get any in the fruit no matter how careful you peel them. Sad because the fruit is delicious, the thought of getting another spike in my tongue kills any desire to indulge for quite a while.

[Vertmorpheus]

pears and prickles...

Eat dragonfruit and leave prickly pears for marginalised south americans haha... nah, they are kind of tasty (pears that is, not south americans) ...wild tough trees seem to give the tastiest if smallest fruit, verging on a loquat or something like that.. pricklies that is. Best way to nail those hairs I hear is to toss them in hot coals til the scary end is burnt off, probably better ways to do it though .... once they are in, or any other stinging hairs etc, I find a good trick is to take a handful of twisted dry soft grass, some natural fibre cloth or similar, soak it in water and then rub in the opposite direction to the way the hairs went in (to make sure you are pulling them back out not just pushing them back in,with a kind of "rolling up" motion to lift rather than just flatten the hairs... and if you bend some spikies too far they will snap below the skin surface). I saw someone once catch an ant and get it to bite where the prickle went in, the puffing up etc seemed to help get it out. (don't blame me if you are allergic to ants though).

Please don't plant prickly pear though... I know, you're gunna keep it in a pot and all that... someone tried that with lantana once

Nice big CP around the corner from me, and what I thought was a CP but on closer inspection is a Cereus forbesii (90 percent anyway)... vicious looking critter, nice and fat, nice tint to the spikes... the foot tall pup I liberated (house was up for sale, going to be townhoused , knowing this area ) looks great in his mexican style pot, acting as a minder for the pachs haha.

happy cactus, watch out for pricks big and small

GD

[paradox]

i have read in a number of places that the main alkaloids present in C peruvianus are hordenine & tyramine.

the following is a wiki quote:

Hordenine (N,N-Dimethyltyramine) is a potent phenylethylamine alkaloid with antibacterial and antibiotic properties produced in nature by several varieties of plants in the family Cactaceae.

Peyote (Lophophora williamsii), San Pedro cactus (Trichocereus pachanoi), and Peruvian Torch cactus (Trichocereus peruvianus) all produce high levels of this compound. These cacti also produce high levels of Mescaline and other phenylethylamine compounds.

Cacti in the genus Ariocarpus, Pereskia, and Coryphantha also produce these alkaloids, though not in high concentrations.

& tyramine:

Tyramine occurs widely in plants and animals and is metabolized by the enzyme monoamine oxidase. In foods, it is often produced by the decarboxylation of tyrosine during fermentation or decay. Foods containing considerable amounts of tyramine include fish, chocolate, alcoholic beverages, and fermented foods such as cheese, soy sauce and soy bean condiments, sauerkraut, processed meat, and red wine.

In humans, if monoamine metabolism is compromised by the use of monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) and foods high in tyramine are ingested, a hypertensive crisis can result as tyramine can cause the release of stored monoamines, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine. The first signs of this were discovered by a neurologist who noticed his wife, who at the time was on MAOI medication, had severe headaches when eating cheese. For this reason, the crisis is still called the "cheese syndrome," even though other foods can cause the same problem.

end quotes.

definately interesting compounds but worth being careful with.

with the information available i believe the best use of C peruvianus would be as an anti-septic ointment or such. actually there could be alot of potetial there, seeing how quickly this species puts on growth.

i'd be interested to know what sort of concentrations of hordenine have actually been found.

i don't believe hordenine

[xShiva.spacetechnology]

hey thanks everyone for all the awesome replies.. i think i might eat me some cactus apple and make some antiseptic ointment after ive finished.

so more about the ointment (great idea paradox), does anyone have any recipes for making such a thing? i was just thinking about skinning a few nice old trunk and then mashing up the insides or mince them and maybe add bit of high proof alchol?

thanks again everyone

Edited May 29, 2007 by xshivaspacetechnologyx

[paradox]

my mum used to make ointments out of herbs. i think it's pretty easy but doing it with a cactus would be a little different i'd guess.

i think a basic method for making ointment from herbs would go something like this:

i think you use vegatable oil or lard or some kind of fat, beezwax & the herbs of your choice.

i think the basic method is, you just simmer it all up together for a while, strain & then cool.

obviously the quantities are important to ensure the right consistency and potency.

something like 8 ounces of fat to 2 ounces beezwax & 2 ounces fresh herbs.

doing the same thing with cactus would be interesting. there would be issues with the high water content i would imagine & perhaps the mucalage would cause some probs, i'm not too sure. i reckon dried cactus would work fine for this method though IMO.

don't know if hordanine concentrations would be sufficient with C peruvianus to make it worthwhile. i definately reckon it's worth looking into tho. it's something i've been pondering for a while. maybe i''l give the ointment a go & test it out.

let me know if you actually try it SST

[pinegapcontrol]

I bookmarked a page a long time ago that went into great detail about C peruvianus being used to produce some kind of gum, and that it has also been investigated for use in cosmetics. But the page does not exist anymore. As a beginner i ended up with a huge amount of C peruvianus. I thought id found a massive torch plant, i dont think im the only one who has made this mistake in their early days with cacti.