Triggers for homosexuality

[incognito]

I say ixnay on threads that contain homophobic and paedophilic related subject matter.

Edited May 16, 2007 by jono

[XipeTotec]

mark80 ur a fuckwit of the highest degree.

lol

[Guest Øskorei]

....and yet another thread that could have had merit as discussion, yet starts to degenerate. Was mark80 promoting paedophelia ? The outright abuse would suggest that it's been read that way by at least one angry 'camper'. The fact is that much of society is homophobic, and see the act as 'unnatural'. Personally I'm of the mind that these people can't be changed out of their narrow-minded 17'th century mindset, as it's been instilled from an early age.

Whilst it's a shame that an otherwise open-minded, alternative forum such as this can often degenerate into anti-gay sentiments, it should be considered that it is still a reflection on the greater world around us. Some people like dumb TV shows, hotted up cars and cheesy pop music. Others might prefer art-house film, catching the bus and listening to whale-calls from the deep. So too the division between pro-gay and anti gay (irrespective of personal sexual choice). Really, in this day and age of acceptance (not 'tolerance' *ugh*), blatant, one-eyed homophobia seems to be a reflection of an individual's own personal shortcomings when accepting all humans as essentially equal, until of course they do something specifically to endanger others. A same-sex couple finding physical attraction in each other does not affect anyone else, does it ?

And whilst on the 'unnatural' aspect, if we are to look at sexual pleasure being simply a psychological device in which to maintain procreation (the LAST thing we need), then I take it all you homophobes will knock back the next blowjob you're about to give/receive to/from your male/female friend........ pretty unnatural, sticking a cock into a mouth, isn't it ? Or do the rules suddenly change to suit ?

[incognito]

....and yet another thread that could have had merit as discussion, yet starts to degenerate. Was mark80 promoting paedophelia ? The outright abuse would suggest that it's been read that way by at least one angry 'camper'.

Far out , stating that a 2yr old can 'consent...wtf?' to sex in my mind this is promoting paedophilia of the sickest form.

and yes osk, i am not a happy camper

equating such a sick form of paedophilia to sexual acts between men (mate this occurs throughout nature and has been an innate part of human nature probably since man walked the earth-very natural) to me is highly insulting to me, and im sure many parents and homosexuals on this board.

Mark80s comments are way out of line-been thinking about withdrawing my comments but that is what my soul is saying so ill leave it for the mods scrutiny and will accept any consequence.apologies to the forum for making a fuss but geez, u gotsto draw the line somewhere.

Edited May 15, 2007 by jono

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm not going to share any opinions, i'm just going to set something straight in the name of science

unnatural?

there was a time when scientists who witnessed homosexual behaviour in animals didn't dream of reporting it. it has been "widely" understood for well under a century that homosexual behaviour in animals is prolific, so calling it unnatural is incorrect. there are other words you might be looking for, ungodly might be one of them but certainly not unnatural.

need i list some examples?

in some monkey tribes they just go around bonking every other monkey.

leopard seals might not even see a female in their life and males will perform sexual play and/or sex.

female deer will play, it is believed that this is to attract males.

a very high percentage of sheep are 'gay'.

animals have same-sex sex, animals rape, animals can even be pedophiles. i think it's sea-lions or maybe that whole family of critters, when a male wins alpha status and all of the lady lions go off with him, the other males can take out their frustration on helpless pups.

so there you go, i've withheld opininion but any simplistic sexual behaviour that afflicts humans also afflicts animals. call it what you will but don't try and say that it's unnatural.

[Guest Warrioe-Sage]

i'm not going to share any opinions, i'm just going to set something straight in the name of science

unnatural?

there was a time when scientists who witnessed homosexual behaviour in animals didn't dream of reporting it. it has been "widely" understood for well under a century that homosexual behaviour in animals is prolific, so calling it unnatural is incorrect. there are other words you might be looking for, ungodly might be one of them but certainly not unnatural.

need i list some examples?

in some monkey tribes they just go around bonking every other monkey.

leopard seals might not even see a female in their life and males will perform sexual play and/or sex.

female deer will play, it is believed that this is to attract males.

a very high percentage of sheep are 'gay'.

animals have same-sex sex, animals rape, animals can even be pedophiles. i think it's sea-lions or maybe that whole family of critters, when a male wins alpha status and all of the lady lions go off with him, the other males can take out their frustration on helpless pups.

so there you go, i've withheld opininion but any simplistic sexual behaviour that afflicts humans also afflicts animals. call it what you will but don't try and say that it's unnatural.

If it has a hole fuck it

[Vertmorpheus]

...and other people who's harddrives should probably be in a lab somewhere...

[ThunderIdeal]

now that would be unnatural ws.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Jono had every right to respond how he did, i was about to too when i first saw it,but thought otherwise.

If mark80 is not mentally retarded or under the age of 9 then he is a f\/ck wit for even having to consider what he said,and deserves to be sent to the sex offenders section of prison(with the gouged eyes), where he can get his answer.

[chilli]

@Shiva

Your examples of homosexual behavior amongst animals can't really be used to legitimize homosexuality amongst humans unless you also want to legitimize rape, and murder and sex as soon as a person is able to reproduce (eg. 9 or 10).

I hope you understand I'm not comparing homosexuality to murder or anything else.

[No_One]

Dunno what your really challenging here - can you explain what you mean?

Are you denying that we are animals at our most basic level and the animal in us has needs and desires that if not expressed/controlled can escalate into acts of rape, murder and sex? Freud called it the libido, how the mind goes about expressing the libido is where the sick minds turn to paedo's, serial killers, etc.

"Repressed Sexual Desires"

If it wasn't the social norm for you to go to Yr 12 or whatever you did and as soon as you ever felt toey and acted on your impulses and shagged a bird, got her pregnant and spent the rest of your days providing and protecting that family.

Put that scenario on any part of the timeline of human history, look for the epochs in consciousness i.e. tool maming ability etc. then check the age of child bearing, as we lean more toward matters of consciousness the age that chicks are having babies increases.

Why's this important, because "nothing is right or wrong, thinking makes it so"....Shakespeare, we can think now and plan when the best time and way to give in to out animal desires/insincts - because we can think we can decide if the way we go about expressing our desires/insincts is right/justifiable.

So, if our intelligence didn't let us plan and foresee the future we probably wouldbe having offspring as soon as we were ready, if we couldn't understand the reasons murder is wrong we would probably murder people, it's the ones that can't do these things very well that end up murdering, raping and having kids when they shouldn't.

Peace

Edited May 15, 2007 by Shiva

[chilli]

Hi Shiva,

Sorry I think you misunderstood my point, I simply meant that if you use animal behaviour to explain the "naturalness" (by which you seemed to mean justifiably acceptable) of homosexuality, then you could say the same about animals raping, murdering etc... eg. many animals mate as soon as reproduction is viable, so its ok to impregnate girls when they develop eggs.

[No_One]

Morals and Ethics are creations of our minds/civilization.

Before it was "wrong" to impregnate a chick the first time her biological systems said to the world she's ready, e.g. 12-16, it would happen all the time.

Look at the older generations, without disrespecting them, that didn;t have access to the info the younger generations have today, the age they'd get married and have kids was younger than the mean age today.

Look at dudes that don't know it's taboo to go out with young chicks, they are attracted to them for some reason, what is it? Is it cause she's showing all of the signs nature uses to indicate that she is a good choice of mate biologically?

We have an animal nature which we control with our minds/intelligence. Some people have faulty intelligence - heard of temporary insanity, from my understanding that temporary insanity is succombing to your animal nature and not being able to reel it in with your mind.

I'm not saying rape, murder and underage sex is cool, I'm saying that it is wrong from a societal/civilized perspective - but from a universal perspective, where you've forgotten any concept of right or wrong you've created, it is simply one possibility/course of action a being has chosen to solve a problem - there's an infinite number of possibile courses of action that being could have chosen but maybe it's not intelligent enough to think of any "better" ways to achieve a solution to it's problems i.e. procreate, eliminate potential threats, etc.

[Jesus On Peyote]

people may argue that it is just some natural feelings, and so on, but i think one thing evolution should have brought to us the ability to judge and rational over what is right and wrong, regardless of what is natural and unnatural.

[Vertmorpheus]

Jono, I know some people with a lightproof disused wine cellar. Words like that being read on a screen where my daughter forms the backdrop.... not even words for it. Beyond sick to your guts... the world starts to tilt.

I used to be driven nuts by people that said " you're not a parent, you can't understand"... I thought I did... ya never can. Never ever. Not even one iota.

any crap like that gets cleaned off within a week, or I'm off and making some phonecalls on the way out the door. This is beyond freedom, open mindedness or being cool enlightened people... I think there are actually laws (real ones, enforced ones, that matter) about knowingly hosting that kind of opinion.

GD

[incognito]

my lil one is my backdrop as well. I think there always needs to be a voice out there against ANY paedophilic conotations, its just to dangerous. I would be equally pissed if i were homosexual (lets face it i am naturally bisexual so yes i am) and being lobbed in the same group as paedophiles. extremely pissed off.

[Guest homoGenius]

Guys I had read the "2 yr old" phrase but honestly thought it was a typo given the "12" figure used before it. People can't honestly think it was really intended to be 2 as in two?

Even 12 raises problems but only in this society so some relativism may play there at least for discussion's sake. It's way off topic though and addressing that might have avoided any other misunderstandings.

[mark80]

Guys I had read the "2 yr old" phrase but honestly thought it was a typo given the "12" figure used before it. People can't honestly think it was really intended to be 2 as in two?

Even 12 raises problems but only in this society so some relativism may play there at least for discussion's sake. It's way off topic though and addressing that might have avoided any other misunderstandings.

woooooooooo Hold on. has anybody else seen my typing lately? Its shocking. I meant 12..... 2 is to young....

What I meant to say is that i know ppl who lost v plates at twelve... with a girl who DID consent. I just don't see why if she had the right to consent with them then why couldn't she consent with someone older? I agree it was young But that didn't stop anything...

2 was a typo. What i was getting at is the age of consent is abitary a line drawn by some bearucratues. Consent is what counts. I do not agree with 40 year olds TWELVE year old but its just seems like I made stupid comment without thinking oit threw.

Even though in indian culture girls of twelve are married off! WHo is wrong a billion indinas or 50 milion westerners?

12 "twelve" yr old girls are biologically recpetive to sexual intercourse. Mareib and hoehn 7th edition pg 1091 - its talks about the age of puberty as being 10 - 14. aveagring 12. Emotional needs differ in evrybody but biologically form 12 they are ready for sex.

I do Not agree I am just making an observation!!!!!!!!!!!

TO EVRYBODY I DO NOT AGREE WITH 2 YR olds! I am sorry for the typo!

I am sorry for the two comment!!! To all who critcised me I agree from your point of view i was stupid! To jono I agree i should be banned if i actually thought of 2 "two" yr old like that!

Edited May 16, 2007 by mark80

[Vertmorpheus]

All but the most imbalanced of 12 year olds are as effectively incapable of making anything like an informed decision of that nature in any way more clear than a 2 year old. yep, I was a 14 year old fuckbunny, with no real downsides at the time that I could see... but it has its downsides, as do most basically unnatural things in time. A plant can flower when it is too small, in too poor a soil, or in a bad light... something manages to seed it, you can get sick seeds, a dead plant, an unnatural waste of all that should've been.

I reckon you may be better off just putting the fuckin shovel down and getting out of the hole before someone fills it in and plants a tree.

GD

[chilli]

Hi Shiva,

But by that same line of reasoning what is wrong with outlawing homosexuality now If lots of people find it morally wrong?

Really glad mark80 cleared that up, now GD doesn't need to call the cops.

*edit* Just saw your last post Green...why is it "basically unnatural" for someone under 16 to have sex?

Edited May 16, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Jesus On Peyote]

even if it were 12. would you let your 12 year old daughter go to the shoping center on her own?

if not why not?

coz shes not old enough to look after herself. thus if shes not old enough to look after herself at a mall, why would sex be accepted if she even consented. their not old enough to consent.not because of burocractic kaka, but because they are CHILDREN. period.

and india is way over populated, they are contributing to the worlds over population problem and the majority of people are underfed and unfortunately, in a sense unsustainable in the long term.

[incognito]

my sincerest apologys to an extent.

i do not agree with ur posts comparing homosexuality to having sex with a 12 yr old girl.

i believe that is very rude considering we have gay people on the forum.

...anyways

[chilli]

JoP, you're missing the point... the reason they are considered children in our culture is because our culture considers them children... many ancient societies (and some not so ancient) would often marry at 12,13,14... it was not considered weird or perverse or abusive. It was totally normal and accepted by those societies. I'm not arguing that it's desirable for our society to be like this, it IS different, as 2 year olds are treated like children in our society and so they do not mature as quickly (emotionally) as people of the same age in cultures where they would be expected to marry and have children by the time they're 14. The age of consent is not fixed in stone, even within our own society it has changed and been open to discussion for decades. I think pedophilia is wrong in any situation, consenting or not, but I don't think there is a "magic age" at which someone becomes an adult, and if certain societies consider 12 year olds mature enough to marry, then the only basis you can condemn it is your own cultures values.

[Guest homoGenius]

JoP, you're missing the point... the reason they are considered children in our culture is because our culture considers them children... many ancient societies (and some not so ancient) would often marry at 12,13,14... it was not considered weird or perverse or abusive. It was totally normal and accepted by those societies. I'm not arguing that it's desirable for our society to be like this, it IS different, as 2 year olds are treated like children in our society and so they do not mature as quickly (emotionally) as people of the same age in cultures where they would be expected to marry and have children by the time they're 14. The age of consent is not fixed in stone, even within our own society it has changed and been open to discussion for decades. I think pedophilia is wrong in any situation, consenting or not, but I don't think there is a "magic age" at which someone becomes an adult, and if certain societies consider 12 year olds mature enough to marry, then the only basis you can condemn it is your own cultures values.

I remember that series by Ray "Baldman" Martin...... Our Century.......... or something by that name before the year 2000. It showed black and white footag of the engagement of two Melbourne establishment families son and daughter. He was 30 and she was 13. That's only like 60 to 70 years ago in this society!!

[Guest Øskorei]

Yea, without being able to write too much right now, I was thinking over the last day or so that it was a typo from mark - in the context of his comments. Thanks for clarifying.

Listen to the tales and romanticize,

How we'd follow the path of the hero.

Boast about the day when the rivers overrun.

How we rise to the height of our halo.

Listen to the tales as we all rationalize

Our way into the arms of the savior,

Feigning all the trials and the tribulations;

None of us have actually been there.

Not like you.

Ignorant siblings in the congregation

Gather around spewing sympathy,

Spare me.

None of them can even hold a candle up to you.

Blinded by choice, these hypocrites won't see.

But, enough about the collective Judas.

Who could deny you were the one who

Illuminated your little piece of the divine?

And this little light of mine, a gift you passed on to me;

I'm gonna let it shine to guide you safely on your way,

Your way home ...

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down

Without you to guide them all to Zion?

What are they going to do when the rivers overrun

Other than tremble incessantly?

High is the way, but all eyes are upon the ground.

You were the light and the way they'll only read about.

I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out.

Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough;

You're going home.

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,

Shake your fists at the gates saying:

"I've come home now!

Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father.

Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

It's time now!

My time now!

Give me my, give me my wings!"

You are the light and way that they will only read about.

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,

(With the) burden of proof tossed upon the believers.

You were my witness, my eyes, my evidence,

Judith Marie, unconditional one.

Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescents.

Difficult to see you in this light.

Please forgive this bold suggestion, but

Should you see your Maker's face tonight,

Look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye, and tell Him:

"I never lived a lie, never took a life, but surely saved one.

Hallelujah, it's time for you to bring me home."

That poem's for jono. I love you, ya big free-minded hetero bastard. Keep the anger alive ! The only one to suffer in the long term will be yourself.