Fermenting Sceletium/Sinicuichi In Winter

[SaBReT00tH]

Does anyone know any other methods to ferment sinicuichi and sceletium in winter (e.g. now, when there is no sun left)??

[Guest Øskorei]

You don't get sun in winter ?

[SaBReT00tH]

nope! the forecast lately and for the future is clouds with possible rain I also thought heat and thus warmth was needed too to kind of melt the sceletium from the nastys to the goodies

[XipeTotec]

in an earlier thread, I read that someone used their hot water cylinder during the night... maybe that will work, dunno, any chance of getting some finished product from you... also, im no expert, but if it is overcast and raining... you may be heating your house......, try contacting someone from herbalistics, they may be able to offer advice

[SaBReT00tH]

I'm going to revive this thread cause my sceletium is ROTTING cause I don't know how to ferment it in winter!!!! Bringon the suggestions. I need some kougoued!!

[nothinghead]

I vaguely remember reading something about fermenting sceletium in the oven at a low temp. If it requires only heat (not light) I don't see why this wouldn't work.

[dqd]

Darcy's the person to ask here

Heard of drying post-fermentation in the oven, but don't remember anything about fermenting in there... 7-8 days of ferm. with oven running 24/7... big gas/electricity bills!

Must be some way though ... wondered about this myself...

[Guest Øskorei]

On top of the water heater makes sense to me, unless direct sun plays a part. I'll find out soon enough, Ive just prepared a salsa jar stuffed full !

Does water get added to the jar or no ? Ive not read as such, but worth an ask........

And sabre, is your sceletium rotting because it won't ferment properly, or is it rotting whilst still 'growing' ? Cos your plant should really be kicking arse right now as far as health goes - and I don;t know if preparing rotten plant matter for consumption is such a wise thing.

[planthelper]

if you search for my posts which are older than darcy's, you will find some answeres....

sabre, why don't you use your heat pad, the warmth comming from behind the fridge or computer equipment, or simply a lamp (the one you have on your desk or bedside with a flexible arm, just bend the lamp so the lightbulbe faces and is close to your container full of the sceletium. the radiating heat will be enough!!)

than after fermentation took place, use the oven to gently dry out the material, very easy...

[Torsten]

Sun is not required for the fermentation - it just happens to be the most convenient heat source for south africans at harvest time. The fermentation was done in leather bags which do not let light in, hence light is not needed.

The aim of fermentation was primarily to get rid of the oxalic acid in the material. Oxalic acid decarboxylates at about 150 degC, which is why you can also just dry your material and then heat in the oven at 150 for a couple of hours.

[t st tantra]

sceletium thats 'fermenting' can smell like its rotting.smell improves on drying.

from memory the smell was ok if roots and flowers are used too.

t s t .

[Andrew]

That was me that mentioned that I used the heat from the water heater to

continue the fermentation at night because we had a week of overcast

and cool conditions just after I cut it.It seemed to work just fine,I left it for

about 7-8 days then oven dried it at a low temp.

Its quite active but it gave me the jaw clenches,which is the same thing that

happens on some antideppressants like aeropax.I,ll try again another time

but at the moment I,m taking moclobemide and dont want to combine the two.

[SaBReT00tH]

I don't have access to any hot water heaters but I'll try torstens oven dry technique. Just wondering though, doesn't sceletium need to ferment in it's own juices (using an enclosed container or something), for the oxylic acid to convert to mesembrine?

[nothinghead]

I think with the low temperature you will be using putting the sceletium in a mason jar or similar container and then putting this in the oven would be fine. Otherwise use oven crockery to keep it "in its own juices"

[Torsten]

no no no. the 'own juices' thing applies to fermentation. when you are doing the oven thing you are not fermenting, but rather you are destroying the carboxylic acid by heat. As I said in my previous post, the oxalic decarboxylates at 150 degC or so, which is what you are counting on. It does take a while at that temp, so leave it in there for at least an hour or two.

If you were to cook the material in its juices at 150 degC, then you would actually only heat it at about 100degC as water does not go much hotter than that. The oxalic acid would be unaffected. To get to 150degC your material needs to be relatively dry.

[Guest Øskorei]

Well the Ø chopped a volleyball sized amount of sceletuim 4-5 days ago, crushed it with a ghetto rolling pin (a.k.a wine bottle) and put the stuff into a salsa jar that was pre-cleaned with brewers sanitiser (being 3% H2O2, silver ions, stabilister and distilled water). On top of the ware heater, it was growing white fur after a mere few days. SO I've taken the stuff and put onto a plate, and am presently drying it out at 150 degrees in the convection micro. After 1/2 hour. i'll take it out and let it sit in the fresh air on my PC tower for a week, then do the 150 degrees method on the dried material as mentioned. My early methodology is really tyo likk the bacteria growth and prepare for a stable drying.

Does anoyone know much about little-recognised ethno Aptenia Cordifolia ? Are there similar oxalic acid considerations ? I ask because I have some dried material (perhaps if I powdered, I would end up with a soda bottle lid full of the stuff) but it wasn't processed (ie dried) under extreme heat.

[Torsten]

the problems with jars is that you need to get the volume right. if you leave much of an airgap you will get fur rather than goodies. best if you fill the jar to within 10mm of the rim. shaking every few days prevents fungus pads forming.

zip bags are better as you can expell ALL air and even if it goes bubbly it won't make a mess.

[Auxin]

Maby marbles? If you need to fill a jar precisely to the rim fill it with what you got and put previously boiled glass marbles in to fill. Given the difference in density it should help agitate the mash when ya shake it around too.

Zip bags tear too easy.

[Torsten]

what a brilliant idea. personally I try to get the volume almost right and then just add a bit of water. but marbles are much simpler.

boiling won't be needed. I doubt the stomach leather pouches used for fermenting sceletium traditionally were all that hygienic.

[XipeTotec]

any other tips to minimise contamination?

[Guest Øskorei]

*BUMP*

So yea, marbles or orther such filler might work, to reduce the chamber's 'free space'. But what of water ? Surely that would mean a far less overall desired temperature ideal..........

I'm starting to thinh that, without the bulk plant matter to work with, for the home-developer, that crushing, drying in open air, then baking at 100 degrees or so - might be the most logical process ... yes/no ?

And I'm scouting out again... Aptenia Cordifolia, anyone ?

[planthelper]

*BUMP*

So yea, marbles or orther such filler might work, to reduce the chamber's 'free space'. But what of water ? Surely that would mean a far less overall desired temperature ideal..........

I'm starting to thinh that, without the bulk plant matter to work with, for the home-developer, that crushing, drying in open air, then baking at 100 degrees or so - might be the most logical process ... yes/no ?

And I'm scouting out again... Aptenia Cordifolia, anyone ?

look it has been said even in this thread how to do it, why do you don't understand what has been said?

anyway my answer is no.

why don't you do it the way it has been done since hundreds of years, and the way we all do it?

i will try to find my post of how to ferment sceletium.

anyway the more volume you have the better...

hmm, i took a long time looking for this post of mine, which was called how to ferment sceletium, i think it was posted at the chill space. i think it was here at not at eb. took me hours to writte this post... one time apoth posted a link to this post, it surly is still around i hope, but if it can't be found, it's no wonder that people ask again and again question i took a long time to answere, grrr....

Edited July 13, 2007 by planthelper

[Guest Øskorei]

Thanks planthelper, but I was referring to the most logical process if jar fermentation is not successful. I'm well aware of the posted 'traditional' methodolgies. As I stated, I was getting unwanted growth, and the idea of packing the jar with inert material to reduce the camber of air is a good one. If everyone avoided conversation on stuff that's been posted in the history of SAB, there wouldnt be much of a forum outside of non-ethneo goss & bitch-fighting, now would there ? .

[Torsten]

So yea, marbles or orther such filler might work, to reduce the chamber's 'free space'. But what of water ? Surely that would mean a far less overall desired temperature ideal..........

The temprature is dictated by outside heat, not by the fermentation.

I'm starting to thinh that, without the bulk plant matter to work with, for the home-developer, that crushing, drying in open air, then baking at 100 degrees or so - might be the most logical process ... yes/no ?

what is logical about doing something pointless? I don't understand why you are trying to delevelop a new method without understanding the goals and principles of what you are trying to get in the end result. Decarboxylation wil not happen at 100degC, so why bother? you might as well just dry the herb at room temp if you are going to do that. Please grasp the basic processes involved before 'adjusting' them.

Also, before you go down the decarboxylation route, keep in mind that it is not very thorough and is probably somewhat harmful to the alkaloids. Snorting this stuff is very uncomfortable.

There is also some evidence that the fermented stuff has a different [more potent] alkaloid profile. Obviously the enzymes are at work during the fermentation period.

Fermentation is by far the best route, especially if you want to snort or chew the stuff. For tea and smoking it probably doesn't matter too much.

And I'm scouting out again... Aptenia Cordifolia, anyone ?

done. inconclusive.

[XipeTotec]

For tea and smoking it probably doesn't matter too much.

I imagine it still would... as you said, it is seemingly an important part of the process to achieve ideal alkaloid profile.

i just rambled some dumb shit here, so I have edited.

also OSK: If everyone avoided conversation on stuff that's been posted in the history of SAB, there wouldnt be much of a forum outside of non-ethneo goss & bitch-fighting, now would there ? .

Didnt you call someone a little bitch for asking about a topic covered in another thread??? oh yeah, that was me...

Edited January 8, 2008 by XipeTotec