Hybrid legality

[Torsten]

salvia was not scheduled via the AG - it went the normal TGA route.

Fantasy [GHB] I think was proclaimed as emergency schedule in NSW some years back. They actually tried to schedule it restrospectively, but as usual such an attempt was negated by the court system.

[Jesus On Peyote]

what about most research chems? they where done all though some weird system yea?

[Vertmorpheus]

Drug hearings rarely bring botanists in to prove beyond doubt that they are an illegal cannabis plant. It's just taken as a given. For them to take your suss looking gardenia into get tested it has to look fairly dopey to start with right? And if it looks like dope, is full of thc and you have a kilo of it dried in the back room, they're going to be interested. I know I don't have the cash to get expert witnesses in.Might be they'd pass a thing saying that if it has potentional to produce banned substance, it's a no no. Possession of banned firearms doesn't tend to involved bringing gunsmiths in to prove that it is in fact an illegal type of gun. A LOT of the outcome is based on what the coppers say went down, pure n simple. Rules? Hahaha tell that to the last person a copper kickedto death, knocked around, slapped the girlfriend of, mocked the cock of, fitted up, or breathalysed with a rig they KNOW they dropped really hard on the deck only minutes before they pulled you over.I spent a fair bit of time getting questions and hassles without an adult present as a juvenile, that's not on but it happens. My GF was tailgated by coppers the other day, and also saw an older lady trying to help an old bloke in an electric wheelchair past a cop car that was parked across the footpath forcing them into a fast moving road over a decent sized gutter.There are rules, they don't follow them if it gets in the way of getting a result.

[Anodyne]

Not sure about pot & cactus, but for salvia & coca at least, I think both the plant AND the main active are banned, so even if you did manage to breed a salvinorin-containing mint or whatever, it'd still be illegal because it had salvinorin in it.

Noone I've heard of has ever gotten their way with the "no its indica not sativa" routine eh?

As I understand it that was a defence people used under the old laws in the US, which banned only sativa. Expert witnesses (Schultes was a major one) were called by the defence to say that there was no way to be sure that dried material was sativa, and not one of the other, legal species. After getting embarrassed in this way a few times, they changed the law.

what about most research chems? they where done all though some weird system yea?

Umm...Analogues Act?

[Vertmorpheus]

Don't get me wrong, it's all a great idea, when someone gets it sorted I want first dibs on the POTatoes

[Jesus On Peyote]

If THC was legal they would have started researching how to get MJ genes into every plant on the planet back in the 60s, it would have been a greater priority then getting to the moon

[occidentalis]

Not sure about pot & cactus, but for salvia & coca at least, I think both the plant AND the main active are banned, so even if you did manage to breed a salvinorin-containing mint or whatever, it'd still be illegal because it had salvinorin in it.

No, in this case it would be just the same as cacti or mushrooms - only illegal when 'prepared'. Cultivation for ornamental purposes would not be illegal.

[Thelema]

Examples of emergency scheduling?

Yeah sure, In 2005 WA emergency-scheduled BZP and TMFPP in 24 hours after discovering a lab.

[Jesus On Peyote]

But you cant have salvias with or without preparation of the herb coz like Anodyne said, the chemical compound would still be in the said plant,and the plant ANd the chem are both illigal.

If Gm starts happening then ild think they would make a system like they did with RC where even compounds that resemble known active ones are instantly banned ( i think).. Thats how the Analogues Act acts yea? or somthing similer, either that or im thinking of america

[Rev]

JOP

you're not getting it tho

if its a hybrid its not the same plant, if it is GM it is the same plant just a new variety

and living plants unless specifically scheduled are not illegal until prepared

(Only cannabis is blanket bannned as a genus in drug law, in customs law Erythroxylum and lophophora are as well)

BECAUSE they went to the effort to spceifically ban S divinorum and M speciosa, it is the inherent weakness in the law

for instance M javanica and M parvifolia also have psychoactive effects and are not illegal

proving intent to prepare is a separate issue

same as for any eb plant with scheduled contents

or for that matter why your pineal gland is not illegal

maybe it would be if it were dried powdered and racked into lines?

Edited April 22, 2007 by Rev

[Jesus On Peyote]

what i mean is, for the "main" well known drugs. like Anodyne said, if popato fruit plant gets Gmed or even hybrided with maryjane, the THC content would still be there since THC is there ittle be just another weed plant that looks differnt but has the same chemisty.

If that veiw is wrong then im lost and ill stop posting lol

[Jesus On Peyote]

And about M javanica and M parvifolia and other herbs that are not illigal, ild say thats coz their is not enough of a user base and the government probably doesent even know what it is.

[Anodyne]

No, in this case it would be just the same as cacti or mushrooms - only illegal when 'prepared'. Cultivation for ornamental purposes would not be illegal.

Ah right, I'd forgotten about all that intent business.

And about M javanica and M parvifolia and other herbs that are not illigal, ild say thats coz their is not enough of a user base and the government probably doesent even know what it is.

Well now they do

If the TGA had actually done any real research into kratom, they probably would be illegal. "Luckily", the TGA are total fucking incompetent morons, and banned the mitragynine/M.speciosa on the first biased study they came across.

[amanito]

In Holland a young guy made a cannabis-strain, wich is called skunk11. He made a patent of it and it's now legal medi-weed. The only legal weed in Holland.

[Jesus On Peyote]

I did a search for the skunk11 and all i found was a normal MJ characteristics,which im guessing would have been hybrid from 2 illigals (probably good if its specifically for medi use).

( though i thought all meryjaweed was legal in holland?)

[Auxin]

Marijuana is not legal in Holland, they are prohibited by international treaties from actually legalizing it, the best they can do is not arrest people for it.

Edit: Come to think of it I dont think there is a single country on earth where it is legal. Am I mistaken?

Edited April 24, 2007 by Auxin

[amanito]

Hash is legal in India I thought. Weed is prohibited in Swiss, like in Holland. Allowed in Belgium and Canada and some others if used at home, small quantity and one or two plants. Decriminalised in Tsjechia, you can smoke in most public pubs without getting troubles.

Probably in Somalia and a lot of countries like that they have better things to do that outlawing it.

Edited April 24, 2007 by amanito

[amanito]

Alaska #

Alaska Supreme Court and lower courts have ruled that personal possession of cannabis is protected by state constitution's privacy clause. As recently as Sep 14, 2004, the AK Supreme Court refused to overturn a unanimous Appellate Court decision that police were not allowed to enter a home simply based on smelling cannabis smoke outside. See Pot vs Privacy, Oct 2003 and Alaska Supreme Court chooses privacy over pot, Sep 2004 and Eric Sterling's Response. The Alaska Legislature passed a law banning cannabis, but a judge struck down the law in July 2006: Judge rules against Alaska marijuana ban law, Jul 2006, AP. ACLU Press Release July 11, 2006

California #

California Supreme Court has upheld the California Medical Marijuana law (state prop 215). July 19, 2002

"The possession and cultivation of marijuana is no more criminal -- so long as (the law's) conditions are satisfied -- than the possession and acquisition of any prescription drug with a physician's prescription." CA Chief Justice Ronald George.

Cities:

The city of West Hollywood adopted a policy in June 2006 that suggests police make "investigations, citations, arrests, property seizures, and prosecutions for adult marihuana [sic] offenses the lowest law enforcement priority in West Hollywood". See Council Agenda Entry and LA Times Story.

Berkeley passed two city ordinances "BMI I" and "BMI II" that tells police to make marijuana-law enforcement its lowest priority. See Legal Limbo for Pot Users.

Santa Barbara (Prop P, Nov 2006) and Santa Cruz (Measure K) have passed rules making possession of cannabis the lowest enforcement priority for local police. (Thanks sr)

Colorado #

City of Denver votes to legalize possession of up to an ounce of cannabis. Although police will still enforce Colorado state law, the city population has clearly expressed that they are disatisfied with the state laws. See Denver Voters OK Marijuana Possession - Nov 2, 2005, AP and Mile High City Legalizes Pot Possession - Nov 2, 2005, AOL News.

North Carolina #

Dronabinol is Schedule II in N. Carolina. [reference]

Rhode Island #

Rhode Island legalized the medical use of cannabis in Jan 2006, overriding a veto of the legislation by Governor Don Carcieri (house vote 59-13). The law allows people with certain illnesses such as cancer to register with the state, receive a special ID card, and then grow up to 12 plants or buy/possess up to 2.5 ounces of dried cannabis. AP story by ML Johnson, Jan 3, 2006.

Belgium #

No amount of cannabis is legal to possess in Belgium, however possession of up to 3g of cannabis by adults, for personal use, is tolerated in Belgium. It is also said that 1 female plant is tolerated. Police will sometimes take the name of an individual in possession, but the Belgian state will not prosecute. Cholo writes that if the possession meets the informal 'personal use' criteria, the police register the offense anonymously and do not even take the individual's name. The criteria for this are include: possession of an amount that is consumable in 24 hours (usually 3 grams or less), possession of leaf or bud and not oil or other procesed product which are less tolerated; that the use is not around minors or while driving; and other factors that might indicate 'problematic use'. In practice, almost all non-problematic personal users will be registered anonymously.

Canada #

Cannabis is schedule II in Canada (for more than 3 kg). Canada's cannabis control laws are spottily enforced, with the west coast (British Columbia) being well known for its high quality cannabis and low levels of enforcement. In 2002, Canada's federal government made several findings in favor of cannabis legalization and medical use approval. Although the status of medical cannabis is still in flux (sep 2002), the Canadian government has several times voiced its intention to support full medical use. Non-viable Cannabis seeds and Cannabis stalks (that do not include leaves, flowers, seeds or branches) are exempted.

England #

Cannabis is a Class C drug in Britain. --> lowest penalties

Estonia #

Cannabis is prohibited. According to joh, "Seeds are legal to sell but illegal to import and export." (Unconfirmed, thanks joh)

India #

Although India has a long history of the use of Cannabis, including involvement with religious traditions, it is illegal to grow or possess. In some areas, it is openly ignored by authorities. (Thanks Clude)

Japan #

Cannabis is prohibited under the Japanese Cannabis Control Act. [see also http://www.taima.org/en/law.htm] (Thanks embroglio). However, viable cannabis seeds are available in headshop as of June 2005, selling for Y1300-Y2500 (12-23 USD) each. Growing the seeds is illegal and the shops have warnings that the seeds are just curiosity samples and the shop will not answer questions about cultivation. (Unconfirmed) (Thanks s4m)

Mexico #

A new bill, passed by the Mexican Federal Legislature in late April 2006, has not yet been signed into law, but would decriminalize very small amounts of cannabis (under 5g) but would stiffen penalties for larger amounts and remove current discretion judges about the definition of "personal use amounts

Netherlands #

Although cannabis is technically illegal to possess and sell in the Netherlands, the government does not prosecute individuals (over 18) who smoke cannabis. Possession of less than 5 grams or growing of less than 5 plants will not be prosecuted. Certain cafes/coffeeshops are allowed to sell cannabis and hold 100 grams behind the counter and another 500 grams in the back. In March of 2003, the Dutch government changed the law to allow doctors to prescribe cannabis for medical purposes through pharmacies.

Norway #

Although cannabis and its seeds are illegal in Norway including possession and sale, there is some exception for medical use. We are told that seed possession and sale are now (as of 2000) prohibited. (Thanks to Tomas)

The penalty for posession of small quantities of Cannabis (less than 5 g) is normally 3000 NOK. For more than 5 g, higher penalties apply and can include community service and jail in some cases. The Norwegian police does not punish use, posession and distribution of Marijuana as harshly as Hashish and the Hashish in Norway is often adulterated with other ingredients. (

Pakistan / Peshawar #

We received the following from a contributor:

"In Peshawar and the northern parts of Pakistan, smoking Hash (called Charas here) is socially acceptable and even sold on an open market where the government has no power to intrude. You can be jailed for up to six months if you're caught with Charas in other parts of the country, but it's very very common to bribe the cops with as little as $5-20. Also, many shops have Charas behind the counter, but will not admit to it or sell it unless they know you. Most people who get caught here usually only do so because somebody tipped the cops. Otherwise getting caught for Charas possession is rare." [iM, May 2006]

Romania #

According to a contributor: "Cannabis growing, possession or selling is prohibited. Seeds have no legal status (neither legal nor illegal). If you are caught with seeds they will take them and you will receive not more than a warning. Possession of small amounts (1-3 grams) is only punishable by a small fine (~ $150-200). For bigger quantities possession or for growing (only for personal use) you can stay 3 or 6 years in prison. If you sell cannabis you can take over 6 years in prison." (Unconfirmed, thanks exploziv_gbb)

ARGENTINA: No jail or fine for possession; users usually must

undergo court-supervised rehabilitation.

PERU: Possession of small amounts legal; judges decide what

constitutes ``personal'' amount.

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URUGUAY: Possession for personal use not penalized; law does not

specify quantity for ``personal'' amount.

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VENEZUELA: Possession of up to 20 grams not punished; users must

go through drug treatment program.

--

[Auxin]

Really in none of those cases is it legal, as for countries that decriminalized that is vastly different from legalizing. In the US examples those decriminalizing laws carry no weight because it is illegal under federal and international law, both of which overpower state, county, and city law.

[paradox]

Hash is legal in India I thought.

hash isn't legal in india. it is decriminalized for one day a year, on shiva's birthday, so i believe.

bhang is legal to sell (classed as a food stuff), but only in government emporiums.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Great info amanito.

Isent it funny that the south american countries have better and more fair laws then australia and the US ("freedomtowns")

God bless shiva

[Μορφέας]

Isent it funny that the south american countries have better and more fair laws then australia and the US ("freedomtowns") but more crime and are dangerous

[shruman]

More crime more dangerous than the U.S? the country with the most homocides, most incarcerated people on the planet.

I believe russia has decriminalized all drugs for personal quantities.

I think torsten was saying that island countries with tribal law possibly have the best laws for drugs, essentially none.

Edited April 25, 2007 by shruman

[Jesus On Peyote]

Bugger lol never thought of that

But at least ild say the law system is more effeciant then most. If someone has an ice addiction and gets cought with it, held be charged, and let go, with no help from the system or at least very little. where most SA nations seem to help with the rehibilitation

Edited April 25, 2007 by Jesus On Peyote

[Monk]

Auxin, it's uglier than that, actually. Even local authorities tend to resist entirely the idea of decrim/medical cannabis. I know someone, we'll just call him, I dunno...some guy, that was raided and found to have way under the local, legal amount of plants/smoke for medical users in this area and a script for said products. It was a combo of federal/local agents that showed up. In the end, he was prosecuted in county(not fed,) but accused of "intent to distribute" among others, despite a total lack of evidence to this end i.e. no baggies, call list, money, weapons, phone records etc etc.. This meant that a prescription meant nothing. If you have a scrip for vicodin, but "intend to sell" it, you're up shit creek. In other words, if they want you, you're fucked if you don't have 50 grand or more for a great trial attorney.

Pertaining to the hybrids: Over here, any plant or other material containing an illegal substance is a "container" for that substance and therefore illegal. If someone were to create an intergeneric hybrid btw Humulus lupulus and Cannabis x Electric Haze by fusing the protoplasts of said species in vitro, they would be a demigod to me, but also be in possession of a plant that is a container for THC. Illegal. Now, if you keep it under your shirt and plant it amongst your vibrant, varied garden in the front yard, as greendreams stated(right on, brother,) noone will be the wiser. But if you have a spare bedroom full of it with 4000 kw running with CO2, AC, Hydro, Advanced Nutrients and 8 lbs. from the last batch in mason jars.....you may have a problem. They're gonna getcha. To this end, if you hybridise sally d with salvia superba or officinalis etc., pm me, I'll help you spread it across the planet. But tell noone else and don't start a plantation. Mix it with your veggies in the yard..

The cactus thing, though, is great over here. Pedro is everywhere and was way before the authorities knew shit about it. Now they can do nothing without "intent." Be careful and keep it way on the downlow is the moral of the story, I guess.