strawberry ice

[Jesus On Peyote]

I dont think the flavor will make a difference to be honest, i mean, like nab said,sight b4 touch.

My niece goes to primary school now and some news of flavored ice aint going to get her interested, she doesent even know what it is.

The only problem i can see is if dealers start getting 5-10 year olds kids to go to schools and purposely spread it around, that may happen in the US but i dont think it will here, if anything it will be aimed more at high schoolers which is already where most people try stuff anyways

[dqd]

dqd, i think you are being a bit weird about all this... the amount of primary school children with access to or money to spend on drugs of any type is very minimal. I would suggest that if a child in primary school is to take drugs (it isnt unheard of) in this country, it would most likely come from a family source such as parents (god forbid) or older siblings. Also, if a child was after a taste sensation... I think they would be more likely to buy a large icecream, than an minuscule amount of strawberry ice.

Already dropped this in my last post, however I feel obliged to answer . For starters I've written more than a couple of lines, so I need to know which bit you felt was weird so I can answer accurately. Obviously if you found only my first post strange then I know what to address... if it came from my response to cs's smart-arse offering then you will also be aware that he brought up several issues... as a result some things needed to be explained to him, and others had to be refuted. I daresay from what I've read over the last couple of years I'm not the first forum member cs has pissed off with his input, and I certainly won't be the last .

shroo, you don't have kids do you? I said '...at least as a teenager she will have more experience and maturity with which to deal with the issue...', and you replied,

do you think?

Do you think that in general in this country a 10 year old has more emotional and intellectual maturity than a 15 year old? Really? Do you think we do not gain maturity as we mature? Geez, science has been wrong all this time! . As an aside, I helped bring up 2 teenagers over 11 years, both (legally) adult now so yeah, I'm talking from a strong standpoint.

I get the feeling you're not

The only point I used as a basis was that it was a good marketing ploy to use flavours and it would open the way to the most lolly greedy being on this planet... the child. I never claimed it would start a craze, nor turn 33.33% of kids in the country into sweet tooth junkies . Try to keep in mind tobacco was marketed directly at kids in this country for many years, most boys wanted to be the marlboro man... I did. I've smoking for over 20 years now and they still taste like shit... ain't it amazing what clever marketing can achieve!

As I said, make mine mocha.

I'd be interested how you managed to pin down the average pocket-money doled out to primary school kids in Australia, (regardless of public or private), man that was quick! Where'd you get the information from? You're a smart cookie a!

Now can I get back to a more interesting post? Cheers big ears!

[XipeTotec]

dqd... i find it strange that as opposed to dealing with facts, your method of discussion is one of patronization. I think your comments on this topic in generally weird... I wasnt addressing any specific comments. yes, a 15 yo may be more mature than a 10 year old, true... but a 15 year old is still very immature, No, i havnt raised teenagers... but funnily enough, I was one. in regards to tobacco marketing, you say that you wanted to be Marlborough man, therefore you took up smoking, you also stated in an earlier post, that if strawberry ice was around when you were young, you would have taken amphetamine at an earlier age.... maybe you are just a sucker? In regards to average pocket money of australian primary school aged kids, I dont think I need stats to reasonably guess the sorts of amounts they would be receiving, you dont have any stats regarding the crap you are dribbling, yet you demand it from me? As a conclusion... you seem very proud of your post, and with your attempt to argue my points with a variety of put downs, which I can only assume you think is clever... in actual fact, it shows a very poor grasp of.... well, anything... I look forward to your patronizing reply

Edited April 22, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[Anodyne]

I would suggest that if a child in primary school is to take drugs (it isnt unheard of) in this country, it would most likely come from a family source such as parents (god forbid) or older siblings.

Or from the school shrink when she says the kid's got ADD. Young kids are already taking drugs, they're just doing it legally.

The only problem i can see is if dealers start getting 5-10 year olds kids to go to schools and purposely spread it around, that may happen in the US but i dont think it will here

Most of the people I've known with ADD meds share/sell at least some of them. It's not on a huge scale, but it is happening.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Agreed, but iv only heard of that in the US and not much of it around here in aus, at least not where im at.

I think ADD meds are retarted in many ways coz most of em are themselfs amphetamines so its kinda stupid and i dont think any kids at least in primary school should be proscribed them. I recon most add "symtoms" can be cleared up with better diets and and general parenting.

Anodyne, how old where the people you knew with the add meds? in high school or still in primary?

[Anodyne]

most of em are themselfs amphetamines

Uh yeah...that was kinda my point.

And they were mainly in highschool, but some primary school. And some in uni.

[simon_marklar]

primary school kids dont need meth - they get d-amphetamine for 5 to 20 bucks for a 3 week supply. its called "ADHD medication"...

maybe the gov. should flavour them, no worries about forcing it down your kids throat then!!

[Jesus On Peyote]

Still tho, Medicine from the pharmist and "medicine" from dealers a quite different. the perents go n buy the add drugs meanwhile most kids dont really know what they are, just medicine.

again i dont think it will be a problem with primary kids for the most part, but like i said, highschool kids will probebly end up using it, weather its flavored or not.

[dqd]

dqd... i find it strange that as opposed to dealing with facts, your method of discussion is one of patronization. I think your comments on this topic in generally weird... I wasnt addressing any specific comments. yes, a 15 yo may be more mature than a 10 year old, true... but a 15 year old is still very immature, No, i havnt raised teenagers... but funnily enough, I was one. in regards to tobacco marketing, you say that you wanted to be Marlborough man, therefore you took up smoking, you also stated in an earlier post, that if strawberry ice was around when you were young, you would have taken amphetamine at an earlier age.... maybe you are just a sucker? In regards to average pocket money of australian primary school aged kids, I dont think I need stats to reasonably guess the sorts of amounts they would be receiving, you dont have any stats regarding the crap you are dribbling, yet you demand it from me? As a conclusion... you seem very proud of your post, and with your attempt to argue my points with a variety of put downs, which I can only assume you think is clever... in actual fact, it shows a very poor grasp of.... well, anything... I look forward to your patronizing reply

Every ad campaign is aimed at the suckers shroom, and as always there is a never-ending stream them/us. You know the saying . I'm sure you'll survive this disagreement health intact, and will live to fight another battle

I was a teenager once too shroom, I'll share something with you. I found having been a teenager gave me little help in parenting one. Being a teenager is like having to knock a hole in the Great Wall with a pick-axe, parenting the pick is replaced with your head . You also have to lose a good deal of your ego to survive.

Enjoy the remainder of the thread people, I won't be checking in again

[Guest Øskorei]

This topic has been interesting to date, as to the varying opinions on what is a growing social problem - one that may or may not snowball with the introduction of a flavoured ice. An aspect of this debate that makes it unique is that there are no doubt a number of recreational ice users, perhaps even a few with some addiction issues to the drug. We also have at least one parent of teenage 'kids' who is expressing alarm, who contributes to an ethnobotanical forum, therefore may have had a fair share of drug experiences in the past/present. I'm unsure of the demographic in this thread, but I might hazard a guess to say there might be up to two generations between posters. A valuable opportunity for everyone who might not otherwise be able to openly talk to older or younger generations so candidly about what is a mostly 'taboo' subject in conventional society.

There is a lot to be gleaned both from dqd as a concerned parent, and also from other contributors who have an opinion that may indeed be closer to the coalface of ice-usage in this country, either directly or indirectly (ie mates). So all well-thought out statements & continuing discussion can only be a good thing, no ?

As stated earlier, I don't think flavoured amphetamine will make a huge impact on 'children'. To extend upon the theme of 'pocket money', I would doubt that primary-aged kids would (or should) be given enough cash to go and score ice. Or booze for that matter.

Dqd, it appears that as a parent of teens you're in a bit of a minority in this thread, but that should serve to be all the more reason to keep contributing........ hope this one stays alive without degenerating into personal bitching from all sides of the debate. Perhaps personal emotion towards disagreeable responses needs to take a backseat, and allow opinions to flourish.

[XipeTotec]

Every ad campaign is aimed at the suckers shroom, and as always there is a never-ending stream them/us. You know the saying . I'm sure you'll survive this disagreement health intact, and will live to fight another battle

I was a teenager once too shroom, I'll share something with you. I found having been a teenager gave me little help in parenting one. Being a teenager is like having to knock a hole in the Great Wall with a pick-axe, parenting the pick is replaced with your head . You also have to lose a good deal of your ego to survive.

Enjoy the remainder of the thread people, I won't be checking in again

geez, u reply so pleasantly, i feel a bit bad for my rant against u dqd.

Edited April 24, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[Benzito]

I've got ADHD.

I find Methylphenidate/Ritalin to be the only truly effective tool at improving my attention span.

I was set to drop out in year 10, I was in trouble every day and horribly underachieving.

Being diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Ritalin probably saved my life. I was in a horrible self-destructive spiral and I felt I couldn't even control my own behaviour the way I wanted to. I almost instantly became a friendlier, assertive, productive young person, and years later I am still benefitting from Ritalin. But I only use it when i work.

Fuck I hate Ritalin bashers.

Yes, AD(H)D is over-diagnosed, but the kids who really have it can't fix it with diet. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain! It can be managed better through diet and exercise, but it doesn't make it go away.

If you understood anything of the condition, you would know that amphetamines, etc, don't stimulate genuine ADD sufferers in the same way as 'normal' people either. So, yes, kids do need amphetamines if they have a chemical imbalance, that can be corrected by that drug.

Do the research. I thought this was an 'academic' forum?

[Anodyne]

^^^^

Don't know who that was directed at, but if it was me, here's my reply:

Yes, I know that there are people of all ages who are genuinely helped by dex/ritalin. Just as there are people who have imbalances which are helped by SSRIs or nicotine or opiates. Nevertheless, as you say, it is grossly over-prescribed, and diversion is a serious problem too.

So how do they test if you have this chemical imbalance Benzito?

[Jesus On Peyote]

Don't know who that was directed at, but if it was me, here's my reply:

Yes, I know that there are people of all ages who are genuinely helped by dex/ritalin. Just as there are people who have imbalances which are helped by SSRIs or nicotine or opiates. Nevertheless, as you say, it is grossly over-prescribed, and diversion is a serious problem too.

Agreed, and benzito, I dont have any vendetta towards adHd meds, but i defenetly dont think it should be prescribed to someone under 10 years old no matter what their condition. In high school as the kids get abit older if there is no other way then by all means ritalin and t he others can be of usefulness but to give ampthetamines to to kid between 10 to 15 is wrong imo

[Benzito]

Don't worry guys, I just always explode when people start bashing Ritalin as a medication. No hurt feelings at my end, I hope there's none at yours.

I also agree children should not be on it. I wasn't diagnosed till 15 or 16, as I said above, so my brain was quite well developed by that point. You should not put any developing little brain on any drug, regularly. Full-stop.

My chemical levels were tested via ECG (I think it's called). Where they put electrodes all over your brain(EDIT:scalp, not brain. lol) and get you to carry out a series of mental & hand/eye tests. I think by seeing the activity of your brain-waves, they can postulate your approximate chemical levels, in ratio to each other anyway.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Benzito

[XipeTotec]

Don't worry guys, I just always explode when people start bashing Ritalin as a medication.anyway.

that could be a negative side effect!!!

[Jesus On Peyote]

Out of curiosity can adults have adhd? iv read someware that alot of adults have the condition aswell but mostly goes undiagnosed.

Benz, are you still on the medication?

[Benzito]

Yes

&

Yes

It's undiagnosed in alot of ppl. But diagnosed incorrectly in others.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Ah k, i can see how it is useful but my only objection to ritalin is giving it to developing minds and like you said when incorrectly diagnosed ( ild guess thats mostly for kids)

I saw an add about it for today tonight ,not sure when its gonna be on,( coulda been yesterday or today) but im sure they will also bash it. ( from the add looks like their saying its bad for kids also) that said i despise today tonight lol.

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm not under the impression that everybody who goes on ritalin gets an "ECG". i've read about all this stuff happening in america, basically a school decides that a kid is troublesome (and many boys are, in any school), a doctor diagnoses them as having ADHD based on a series of so-called clues that apply to virtually anybody with half a brain. next thing, the school won't let that child in without them taking the stuff.

[Benzito]

Yeah you don't have to get an ECG, but my parents decided to actually go for some kind of measurable test, rather than symptoms alone.

Any paediatrician can prescribe ritalin for children, when you're over 18 any psychiatrist can prescribe it.

It's up to them how much testing they want to do before giving you the drugs and many don't do any at all.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Yea, think i heard that the use of it over the last 5 years have gone up HEAps. donno exact numbers but was alot

[incognito]

can someone breed a cactus that tastes like strawberrys?

[ThunderIdeal]

sounds like a job for monsanto, jono

yeah and if you think ritalin is only widespread in america, australia and new zealand will probably overtake their usage statistics per capita, if they haven't already.

[Chemical Shaman]

Sigh.....

Only just read your response now dqd and it seems maybe I need to reply now. Double sigh....

This article that Nabraxas posted, this is not a new article. I had read it a few weeks prior to him posting it. When I did read it though my first thought was, "Nothing new here.... typical fear mongering." following that, my second thought was about how offended I was by that article, specifically how little credit they gave us the reader (and our level of intelligence and ability to think freely). What do they take us for, complete idiots? I thought it ridiculous that ANYBODY would actually read this article and take it seriously. It seems I underestimated the power of their manipulation.

What they are doing here is actually quite despicable dqd because they are using your own children to manipulate you into fear. It seems that it worked though, and I find this pretty low on their behalf. You need to look at this issue a lot closer, and see the article for what it is.... nothing more than fear mongering. This is what they do, if it's not about the drugs, it's about the terrorists, usually it's both and they find crafty ways to link the two up.

While this particular article was completely ridiculous, it's no more ridiculous than any of the other weekly meth fear mongering articles that appear in the papers week to week. I believe the article I read after the one posted above was about how them dodgy meth cooks are now cooking up Ice on fishing trawlers!!! Wow I thought, is this a new level of idiocy in the drug media???? Then once I got to the bottom of the article I realised what was going on. They were making up this ridiculous bullshit about meth cooks making Ice on fishing trawlers so that they could justify fitting machine guns to the boats that customs use and giving them the power to fire on vessesl without warning. They were using this utterly stupid 'drugs being cooked on boats' story to justify it. Typical problem-reaction-solution tactics, totally fucken transparent.

The article that I read today was even more ridiculous. It was about how the druggies are giving pure meth to their dogs to make them all vicious and shit. Wow, I thought.... wouldn't it just be cheaper to feed them dog food and then kick them in the ass with a boot? It would cost a fortune to keep your dog jacked up on meth! What a ridiculous fucken article I thought, especially because they openly stated that they didn't have any sort of proof whatsoever, then went on to talk about how dog attacks are big time on the rise! Must be them meth dogs attacking everyone. This was seriously in the news today. Totally fucken ridiculous.

Now my reply to your post was obviously done in complete sarcasm to highlight my point. If you choose to take it as some sort of attack on you and then launch into some sort of automated ego defense mechanism then that's up to you. But allow me to reply to your post.... for the very important reason of 'just because'.

Over the top response that comes across as immature.

Good. I would hate to be accidently mistaken for somebody who was actually mature. That would just be horrible, and doesn't match my shoes. I would also hate to respond to this idiotic news article with any sort of maturity, because it deserves nothing more than a big pffffff upon reading. This news article has already been treated with way more seriousness than it ever deserved. Looks like they 'win' this round. Hopefully nobody took their "druggies feeding meth to their dogs" article seriously, I would hate to think that humanities intelligence has dropped to that sort of a low.

I think it's safe to say you have no kids.

You're absolutely right. At least none that I know about. Which I find a bit strange. I mean i've probably unloaded enough man-mayonaise into Torstens mums coochie by now that he should have like an extra 10 siblings or something. I knew it was a mistake to keep my mobile phone in the pants pocket all these years.

Even the most open free-thinking parent will think twice about one issue during their child's life

I would hope that every single parent would care a great deal about all relevant and realistic issues and dangers surrounding their children throughout their childhood. They absolutely should. I don't consider this strawberry ice issue to be anywhere near the realms of relevant or realistic. It's the media, playing parents for fools, using their own children to manipluate them. That's all it is.

Children have fewer barriers than us, and can be easily manipulated.

Funny. It almost seems like adults are every bit as easy to manipulate as children, this article (and the reaction it received) is a damn good example. Seems like a really good way to manipulate a human being is to make it look like someone or something that they care about is in danger, then once you've put the fear into the person, they are completely open to all sorts of totally irrational suggestions.

You say you understand my concern... crock of s**t. Being a parent to me is being handed a person that has just come out of my wife and realising my life means nothing, everything I am is now inextricably woven with the tiny child I hold. If you ever become a father/carer you'll understand. I was a step-dad for four years before my daughter was born, and for a further seven after that. I approached parenting the boys as seriously as I approach parenting my daughter. All three still survive, so I must be doing something right.

Beautiful words and im sure you are a great father. It is obvious you care a great deal for your daughter, as you should. But the point im trying to make here is that the media have actually taken advantage of this and exploited it. Don't let them use your daughter to manipulate and influence you, it's disgusting on their part.

Now that the hype has died down do you still see this as any sort of a realistic threat?

You state that you are "quite able to see through media beat up" but think about that for a moment. You're obviously a very intelligent guy, and im sure that before children came into the equation you were more than capable of seeing through the fear mongering. Now that you have children of your own though, things change......

Maybe you aren't seeing things as you once did, because of this life that is completely dependant on you. You should be worried about her, it's totally natural. But I don't think you need to be worried about this shit.

You make fun of me because I'm concerned about a synth that tastes like a lolly making it into primary schools and opening for the first time (in this country at least) a new market/demographic.

Well I wasn't so much making fun of you specifically as I was making fun of this whole issue. This bullshit fear mongering. But let's talk a minute about this "new market demographic". Man seriously... what the fuck??????? what new market/demographic????

I fail to see how any of the logistics of this whole thing make even the slightest hint of sense. First of all, unless you are an incredibly bad parent, how the hell is it going to be possible for your primary school aged daughter to have a meth habit without you knowing about it. I mean break it down to the basic logical elements. Where is she getting this money from, how is she going to hide it from you? Who is peddling this shit etc. All of these things aside though, where are these evil meth dealers that are trying to get the kids hooked on meth to begin with. Are they really that interested in childrens pocket money?? Is it really such a poor paying career being a meth dealer that they need the kiddies pocket money too?

It seems the media have painted this picture of meth cooks and meth dealers to you in such a ludicrous way that you actually believe there are people out there so completely detached from any semblance of decency, they would actually be interested in hitting the "playground market".

And to be honest I blame Michael Jackson. Im sure you remember the movie "Moonwalker"? Well you remember the character Mr. Big right? I think his catch phrase was "bugs and drugs, bugs and drugs". His plan was to get every single person on the planet hooked on drugs! and he was going to start with the children!! There was also something about spiders and he had like hundreds of henchmen with machine guns. Even though this movie was made 20 years ago, the media are still using this figure as a model for the average every day meth cook/meth dealer.

In reality this probably isn't actually the case. There is a long time forum member here (I won't name him) who's dad went to prison for quite a number of years for being a meth cook. From all accounts this guy was actually a really good dad and a pretty decent guy! He just liked cooking meth. Now the media and Michael Jackson would have us believe that this guy dresses in black, has spiders crawling all over him and wears sunglasses at night (and then tries to fight Michael Jackson but Michael Jackons transforms into a car). I doubt this is the case. I doubt there are many people at all that would actually be interested in getting your daughter hooked on meth, I think there would be very few people on this planet interested in getting primary school children hooked on meth. Don't let the media dictate to you ANYTHING about the human condition, don't look to the media for any sort of reference on reality... because that is not what the media is there for.

Now im going to continue on with this a little more, mostly because I have some time to kill and it's either this or housework.

In elaboration on logistics, you say "Tiny little pics are eye-candy, but flavour they'll go with, and come back for more". Now I find this just a tad silly for a number of reasons. For starters, I suspect that even with this new strawberry flavouring, I think it is really going to taste like complete shit still. I think that your daughter using meth, based on it's strawberry flavouring is exactly the sort of ridiculous notions the media are trying to induce with this artice. To illustrate my point I would like to use a skittle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skittles_%28confectionery%29

Now, as you should know, skittles are absolutely delicious candies. I have no idea what meth would cost but at an estimate I would say maybe 20 times what it would cost to buy a packet of skittles. When you bite down into a skittle your mouth is instantly filled with pure deliciousness mmmmm. I would wager that if you were to put some stawberry meth into your mouth, it would probably taste like ass..... with a litte bit of strawberry flavouring. So at my estimates not only is a skittle at least 20 times more delicious, it's at least 20 times cheaper too. Not only that.... instead of just the one skittle you get an entire packet of skittles to enjoy. Does it still make sense to you that your primary school daughter is going to get in on this for the flavouring?

Realisticly no. If your daughter is using strawberry meth, it's because she want's to experience meth, not because she wants to taste something delicious. And I think that at an absolute minimum, by the time she has any sort of an inkling to try meth, she will be well past the stage of fixation on delicious candies and well into the stages of being into cute boys and such (the high-school age). From here it is entirely up to how well you raised her to make the right decisions.

You asked ealier what sort of issues you as a parent should be worried about? Well all of them really. You should be worried about your child falling over and hurting herself, her heart getting broken, her taking up smoking, her getting addicted to drugs, her being in a car accident etc. etc. You know....... "life". There are a number of things that you can't do anything about. You can't stop a piano falling out of a building and hitting her on the head for example. For the other things, all you can do is give her the right advice, hope that she makes the right decisions and be there for her if she doesn't.

Once she is a teenager things are going to change quite dramatically from the primary school days. I don't think you're going to need to worry about drugs coming into her life until at least her teenage years, but if you want to be the media's bitch and think that way it's a shame. In high school she is going to have pressure to drink booze and smoke cigarrettes. She is going to have boys try and fondle her boobies, she will possibly give shoplifting a go, she will definately have an opportunity to try drugs. Now as I said ealier, all you can do as a parent is give her the right information in these circumstances..... but there is a point here that I think you are missing out on completely....

Let's say she decides to do some meth when she is in highschool. Does this mean her life is over?? If you think for a second that it does then once again you are letting the media dicate your reality to you. The ol' 'as soon as she takes a hit she turns into a drug addict for life' scenario.

I know some really beautiful and amazing girls who got through their VCE (HSC) by smoking ice then staying awake studying for their end of year exams. I know at least two girls who did this and openly state that they owe their high enter scores to smoking ice during their VCE. Never did they turn into addicts, and as far as I know they didn't continue smoking ice after they had finished their VCE. They just used it as a study aid and it worked great for them.

Now don't get me wrong, im not for a second saying that your daughter SHOULD smoke ice. Im just saying that you don't need to consider it to be the end of her life if she does just because the media tell you it will be. She's bound to do a whole bunch of shit that you don't agree with, that's how it works.

I think maybe I should openly state how I feel about meth though. To be truthful with you, I depsise it. I don't see it as having any real use other than staying awake, and I think if you use too much of it, it fucks with your head. I don't use it, I don't have any interest in ever using it, it isn't for me. But just because it isn't for me, it doesn't mean it's not for other people and im not gonna get all preachy about it just because I personally don't agree with it.

I went and visited a friend recently, he's an intelligent and successfull man in his late 30's who runs his own business. His partner is an intelligent and successfull woman in her early 30's. Two very beautiful and special people. Anyway, they had just prepared a really delicious meal and had a couple of glasses of wine. After they had finished their meal they got out a crack pipe and then they smoked some meth together. Definately not something that im interested in but I wasn't going to judge them for it in any way. I then watched them have a really beautiful night together, communicating, joking, smoking meth, listening to music. It was great to watch, such a far fucken cry from the girl you see in the tv commercials who goes crazy and grinds her teeth down to the gums or whatever. When I left, his partner was spread out on the floor listening to music, she looked so happy and content at having had such a beautiful night.... and suprisingly it was on the meth. These guys live completely normal lives, smoke meth together maybe once or twice a month, and that's it. No bashing old ladies at the train station for their pension cheques, no stealing their neighbours dvd player for their next hit. Normal, happy, healthy lives.

This assumption that drugs fuckup everybodies life is entirely perpetuated by the media. Sure drugs fuck up a lot of lives, so do alcohol, gambling and IMO that tv show Big Brother.

The fear surrounding drugs get's more and more ridiculous by the second. I was once thrown into a maximum security prison by the federal police (without doing anything illegal) because they thought I was a meth cook/meth dealer. It's fucking outrageous. I can't help but think that there has to be a dimension that exists parellell to ours that actually takes a sensible approach towards drugs, maybe another planet somewhere. I know that this planet is fucked for the rest of our lifespan. This fear and bullshit surounding drugs will last as long as humans are alive on this planet.

Anyway, I think i've already written way more than most people would be willing to read. But I want to reply to one final thing.

I never mentioned fear, and if you could see my eyes you'd see no fear in them. I do not fear you either.

Ok first of all, you DID have the fear. The fear that your daughter was going to get on the meth because of the strawberry flavouring. This is exactly what the media was aiming for with this article, mission accomplished. You openly stated these fears, there isn't any doubt.

Second of all "I do not fear you either" what the fuck man??????? seriously what the fuck????????? Why would I want you to fear me??? What the fuck was there in my post that would indicate to you in ANY way that, that is something I would want. Can't you see that I am interested in erradicating fear, not perpetuating it!

If you want me to talk to you with these sterotypical forum ego pamperings and false sincerities that many here engage in then all you need to do is ask. But wouldn't you rather be spoken to like an adult and communicated to honestly and without the bullshit. I don't have much interest in protecting people from instinctively launching into ego defenses with minimal rationality, if you choose to react this way it's totally on you. You think I want you to fear me?? I really couldn't see the fucken point. There isn't really anybody here that I wouldn't consider a friend when it comes down to it, we're all in this together right? With the exception of maybe that shroomytoonos and those other one sentance posting cockheads that are sending these forums to the doghouse, I like pretty much everybody here. You included. If I wanted you to fear me i'd get some big biceps first or something, it's funny though.... fear just seems like the biggest waste of time.

Next time you read a newspaper try laughing at every single article you read. If the laughter sticks then congratualtions, you're actually seeing through the fear mongering instead of buying into it.

too many words in this post!

night!

-Chemical Shaman

Edited May 3, 2007 by Chemical Shaman