Growing Guinea Pigs for Meat

[teonanacatl]

Also should say, i find alot of vegetarians have no problem with my getting my own meat, infact most hate the fact that people dont know where there meat is coming from ie its vacuum sealed in isles at woolies. I wonder how many carnivores would be willing to kill and clean their own meat.

[Prophet]

herbivores convert indigestible grass into delicious protein many areas aren't very fertile or too harsh to support crops but grass grows very well and humans don't eat grass because we can't digest it but many herbivores can. Many people around the world rely on animal protein to surive otherwise they would be starving to death.

[Anodyne]

Yea i agree, lol i was just saying that people need some meat at least.

the supplements you took,where taken from meat bearing foods so its kinda needed,like meat is more natural then suppliments.

No, they're not. Even B12 supplements are made from bacterial cultures, not meat. And I don't eat pills as a supplement for food, I eat them when I know my diet has been lacking something, usually when I am too sick to prepare my own food.

b12 is an issue for vegans. i have read that plant b12 can't be properly used by the body.

Vegans using adequate amounts of fortified foods or B12 supplements are much less likely to suffer from B12 deficiency than the typical meat eater. The Institute of Medicine, in setting the US recommended intakes for B12 makes this very clear. "Because 10 to 30 percent of older people may be unable to absorb naturally occurring vitamin B12, it is advisable for those older than 50 years to meet their RDA mainly by consuming foods fortified with vitamin B12 or a vitamin B12-containing supplement." (source)

I do not support hunting or eating roos, as they are after all an australian native, only found here.

There are roo species which are not protected and which are currently being killed as pests anyway, to save the grass for species which are poorly suited to Australia, like cows & sheep. So why not eat them? - they are dying anyway. Better yet, why not just fuck off the imported species & run roos instead of cattle? The land to "grow" them on would require far less water & fertilisers than land for cows, and roo meat is better for you.

[teonanacatl]

I was discussing the whole roo thing with some agriculture students, they think its a crap idea and its not cos they arnt open minded. I think roos are still to smart to be farmed, cows arnt the smartest animals. The big thing to them is that they dont think they will make any money. The roo i buy is only $7-13/kg so it aint a premium meat, it does have a strong smell which isnt to everyones liking, and many people both here and OS wont eat it because its skippy. If the problems with actually getting people to eat it could be changed then im sure they would be more accepting.

[foolsbreath]

I saw a program on four corners or land line about a company exporting roo meat. They were doing a booming business!

I know of a place near armidale where roo's are kept in fenced paddocks. They are quite happy, but easily stressed if there is a lot of activity in the paddock, but as long as you give them an option to go into an adjoining paddock they are usually quite happy

I can try and track down the vid if you want, I think I remember someone who had it on tape.

[ThunderIdeal]

The whole your not ment to eat meat cos it rots in your belly is silly, rotting the meat allows for more of the nutrients to be released, occurs in all carnivores i know of.

Anyway I cannot see either omnivory or vegetarian being better or worse, straight carnivory or veganism might be worse i dont know. But yeah the body is an adaptable thing and I dont think it would matter which way you went. That said i oftern hear of people saying, ive been vegetarian for x long and then i had a piece of meat and got so sick and blah blah blah, its just what your body is used to as it is adaptable. Same goes if eating alot more fruit then usual or going off carbs then back on.

yeah it is what your body gets used to, i should have mentioned that. i am guessing that your production of enzymes changes. it is also what your mind and tastebuds get used to though. look at some of the food that foreign people eat and love (ie guinea pigs, plus lots of other unpalatable looking stuff). remember when i mentioned that grain-fed chickens won't eat much variety if put out to forage? it all comes down to what you're used to, and i guess i was just trying to say that when you decondition yourself from loving to eat meat, you do lose the taste for it and the urge to eat it. it's no different to learning to eat spicy food or any other diet change. i feel like in australia, people are meat crazy. they just eat too much for good health, because beef has basically been very cheap for australians in the past and it has become a way of life.

just quickly: carnivore digestive tracts are many times shorter than ours, as is the time that food spends in them. so a carnivore eats meat, it gets attacked by incredibly strong stomach acids, goes through a short digestive system and is expelled quickly.

prophet that's a fair point but it shouldn't be applied to beef in australia. yes, you can run cattle in places that you wouldn't grow crops, and that is exactly what is being done, but it's taking a toll on the land. this countries topsoil is too scarce to be eroding it with hoofs.

i remember eating roo meat in a restaurant, with bbq sauce. it's meant to be reasonably healthy but to me it tasted bland. without sauce i would have had trouble eating it.

[Anodyne]

Everyone I know says roo meat is very good. There's a guy up around Coffs Harbour who make various preserved roo meats ("roosciutto" ), and I always get requests to bring back hunks of that for friends in the city. Never seen it in Sydney though.

yeah it is what your body gets used to, i should have mentioned that. i am guessing that your production of enzymes changes.

Yeah, they do - long-term vegos produce more amylases, and there's almost certainly other changes as well.

That said i oftern hear of people saying, ive been vegetarian for x long and then i had a piece of meat and got so sick and blah blah blah, its just what your body is used to as it is adaptable.

I reckon a lot of these would just be a psychosomatic thing - that they've convinced themselves for so long that meat is bad... that said, there were 2 occasions where I totally accidentally and unknowingly ate something with a little meat in it, after about 3 years of being vego. Both times I puked & then went to warn others about the dodgy food, only to find I was the only one sick - we eventually figured out that the hosts had mixed up the vego & meat dishes. I figure since I didn't know I was eating meat (I was pretty out of it on both occasions), I couldn't have possibly talked myself into being sick, so it must have just been an enzyme thing - I just can't digest red meat anymore. So yeah, the body is certainly adaptable - no doubt I could change back to an omnivorous diet eventually, just as they could adapt to a vego diet.

[shruman]

"Everyone I know says roo meat is very good. There's a guy up around Coffs Harbour who make various preserved roo meats ("roosciutto" ), and I always get requests to bring back hunks of that for friends in the city. Never seen it in Sydney though."

Too fucken right, his smoked roo is the tops delicous!

[nabraxas]

Absolutely nothing, teo! I'm vegetarian for similar reasons to Thunder, I think - mainly land-use issues (although after 12 years aesthetics have become an issue too). I have no problem with eating meat per se, it's just that I think as an industry it is destructive & wasteful. I totally support eating wild rabbits & roos, keeping free-range chooks on your property to keep the bugs down, and similar. If I was in a situation where being vego was impractical for survival, of course I would eat meat. But at the moment, I live in the middle of Sydney, where I can find pretty much any food I want.

as a vegetarian ov over 20 years i totally agree w/that.

JOP---there is no need to eat meat, only desire. Hindus (& some buddhists) have been following a vegetarian diet for thousands ov year, if there really was a nutritional problem it would be common knowledge.

edit:

Perhaps we might consider farming humans.

I really can't get my head around that one

Edited May 2, 2007 by nabraxas

[Jesus On Peyote]

Perhaps we might consider farming humans.

I really can't get my head around that one

lol thats a weird thing to say, altho, meat is meat Yummy

JOP---there is no need to eat meat, only desire. Hindus (& some buddhists) have been following a vegetarian diet for thousands ov year, if there really was a nutritional problem it would be common knowledge.

Wasent aware of that, Iv never really studied tooooo much into veganisim, and have always assumed meat was one of the "needs" of human diet. Does that mean meat is generally "bad" for humans or is it just that, desire?

Personally, I eat very little greens (nearly no) , not coz i dont want to eat em, but from when i was young i never could get em down, when you chew on em its eww weird, does anyone else have or had this problem? or is it just me?

[teonanacatl]

The human body functions perfectly well as an omnivore so meat is not bad for humans, though bbqing a piece of steak and eating all the steak and fat probably isnt as good for you as eating greens. Im going to cut down on the amount of store bought meat i get, except for the roo.

[Prophet]

I think goats are more adapted to australian conditions than cattle and goat meat is good as well. Maybe they should be farming more goats. Also different types of sheep rather than just one type. Some other types are probably better adapted to here such as those found in the middle east and dry desert areas.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Speaking of using the same types of cattle, did anyone hear about the cloned (cow, i think) that an oz farmer has created? (payed for) coz he believed it was a good strain or some such thing.

Only cost him 30k

[devance]

http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A...t-mg&P=3335

[Ace]

Regarding Roo for meat - I was down at my local woolies - a small one, not a main one - and they had a bit of roo in the meat section - chops, steaks, rissoles and mince AFAIR. I cant say it looks very tantalising tho - perhaps if someone cooked it up nice enough I'd be keen to try it

Does that mean meat is generally "bad" for humans or is it just that, desire?

No, meat isnt bad for you, it is eaten to provide extra protein and various other goodies for your body. But these can be found in plant matter, no probs. It was just a good way to find food as we evolved thru the ages - when there was a lack of vegetation (for whatever reason) - we would hunt animals, catch fish, whatever. Perfectly natural, just as is a strict vego diet.

[Anodyne]

I think goats are more adapted to australian conditions than cattle and goat meat is good as well.

Goats are tough little fuckers and will survive pretty much anywhere AFAIK. But they eat EVERYTHING - grassroots, tree bark, rope - fucking everything, which can't be good for the land. At least roos & cattle only eat above-ground grass & leaves, allowing the plants to re-grow. Also, goats are very nimble - they can climb over barbed-wire fences like they're walking up stairs - so they need pretty heavy-duty fencing. They're just generally a pain in the ass - great cheese though.

[devance]

http://www.echotech.org/network/modules.ph...cle&sid=589

More than I ever wanted to know about growing GP's

[shruman]

"Does that mean meat is generally "bad" for humans or is it just that, desire?

No, meat isnt bad for you, it is eaten to provide extra protein and various other goodies for your body. But these can be found in plant matter, no probs. It was just a good way to find food as we evolved thru the ages - when there was a lack of vegetation (for whatever reason) - we would hunt animals, catch fish, whatever. Perfectly natural, just as is a strict vego diet."

Scientists believe meat eating in our omnivourous diet is what speed up our evolution in intelligence, the constant supply of protein Iron & other essential nutrients that meat provided allowed our brains to increase in size & with larger brains we learned other skills such as cooking meat to get more nutrition from it, smashing bones to get the marrow (real brain food), which in turn led to even larger brain mass. We wouldnt be were we are 2day withuot meat.

"just quickly: carnivore digestive tracts are many times shorter than ours, as is the time that food spends in them. so a carnivore eats meat, it gets attacked by incredibly strong stomach acids, goes through a short digestive system and is expelled quickly."

True but our digestive tract is of an omnivores somewhere between a carnivores & a herbivores, developed for dealing with meat & plant matter. Our teeth are the same we have a mix of molars & incisors.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Scientists believe meat eating in our omnivourous diet is what speed up our evolution in intelligence, the constant supply of protein Iron & other essential nutrients that meat provided allowed our brains to increase in size & with larger brains we learned other skills such as cooking meat to get more nutrition from it, smashing bones to get the marrow (real brain food), which in turn led to even larger brain mass. We wouldnt be were we are 2day withuot meat.

Yea, thats what i was led to believe.

I dont want to sound racist but i think that theory is kind of acceptable,

Take Aboriginals for example, B4 whites settled here their condition of living and food avalibility was alot different to Europe,asia and the americas, (even b4 white settlement there), as in they had less meat products to eat and more bush foods, and its been proven their brains evolved different to Caucasians. ( i would think mainly coz of the diets, and or environment)

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1261675

Not sure if thats 100% correct, as it looks like the report was done in the 80s but its a reference.

[devance]

http://www.juliesjungle.com/nigeriangoat.php

I been thinking of raising them but more of having a living lawn mower.

Maybe to raise and sell.

I find goats are too likable to eat but make good pets.

Will eat anything which the smaller is better as to worry on gardens..

The small ones are really small.

[teonanacatl]

yeah when i was younger we used to have them and let them eat the lawn, only problem is yes they would munch it down good, but cos of the shit it would grow back thicker bigger and greener then before lol.

I was wondering whether it would be a better idea to do as you say devance and let them eat the grass their shit going back into it or to feed them grass and veges and collect the shit for the garden. Thier shits are quite dry and roll so all you would need would be a flat cage bottom you could tilt and the shit would role to the end adn could be collected.

[Prophet]

you might wanna check out this site teo, has a bit of info http://benson.byu.edu/Publication/Manuals/guineapig.pdf

[occidentalis]

Take Aboriginals for example, B4 whites settled here their condition of living and food avalibility was alot different to Europe,asia and the americas, (even b4 white settlement there), as in they had less meat products to eat and more bush foods, and its been proven their brains evolved different to Caucasians. ( i would think mainly coz of the diets, and or environment)

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1261675

Not sure if thats 100% correct, as it looks like the report was done in the 80s but its a reference.

This is in no way 'proof' that the brains of aboriginal people have 'evolved' differently to caucasians - this study is too recent to acount for changes in lifestyle among aboriginal people since white invasion, which is admitted in the abstract. The authors suggest that the differences are probably due to malnutrition, although they may have been genetic. Even if they were genetic though, there is nothing to suggest that it is due to the amount of meat in the diet or anything else related to diet.

To top it all off, indigenous Australians had (and still tend to have) very high levels of meat consumption, because there was limited plant food available at some times of the year.

[shruman]

^^ I had similiar thoughts to these but u put it pretty succinctly, also look at the sample numbers 8 aboriginals & 11 caucasians this is ridiculously small to draw any real conclusions.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Yea, i dident take the article to heart, just thought it might be of some interesting read.

Altho coz australia b4 whites (british, for the politically correct) arrived (invaded) wasent and still isent a very sustainable land in terms of meat products. And i agree they would have of course eaten meat but compared to europeans, im guessing there wasent enough (or as much) cattle type food for em to farm.