a new church for all of us!!?

[husk]

NSW is never going to change with drug (PLANT!) laws unless greens get in and it's going to be a long time until that happens!

the rest of the country is not much better either of course.

does anyone have any knowledge or ideas on how to create a (nice, open) religion or a (friendly, comfy) church?

Santo Daime is relatively new no? I suppose that it is one church that could get acceptance here, maybe?

what about the fungi? we are associated with some unique native fungi in this land, could that help a cause like this?

Santo Daime could be disregarded by the law/gov. as illegitimate on some stupid grounds like you have to be Brazilian or it is a foreign church so it is not relevent to this country.

but there is no current church i know of that et mushrooms that we could be accused of joining on false grounds.

the fungi has been here for longer than common/civil law and maybe even human occupation so how could we not find spirituality through the use of them? i would love to conduct ceremonies and rituals before the use of mushrooms, not just grace before a mushroom pasta bake!

i can see that this could be seen as wrongful use of a term or institution such as 'church' but who hasn't felt an otherworldiness or spiritual effect when eting mushrooms. and what's more we could have a more harmonious presence in the world than many other religions.

ok, so it doesn't need to be based on do's and don'ts or racial background or strict actions and prayer, more along the lines of satanism (as in protocol, not intent of course and for lack of a better example at present).

satanists just attend ceremonies and try to follow some basic rules that are specifically particular to each individuals needs and morals, i think, well from what i've read anyway!

so what do you think?

x peace

[Ace]

Hey, now thats a church I'd be happy to worship in

I was thinking about this for a while, I think you'd have to be incredibly dedicated to get it approved. And the minority that would actually attend, I dont know if it'd be worth it. Perhaps if cacti rituals were included, as well as mushies and other plants, it would be well worth it. At least you could gain spiritual acceptance while respecting the law. Or moreso, the law respecting your beliefs. But the law should already accept and respect the peoples beliefs, so I guess the law is out there to be broken. Perhaps I just have a bizzare view, but I'm sure a few fellow plant geeks share these beliefs. Anyway, i'm rambling, so to wrap things up - good idea, but if you can be bothered, then you will need to be very commited to get it up and running

But, hell - I'd certainly come and hear a couple of you guys preaching about these plants

[husk]

can anyone help steer me in the direction for a simple all inclusive document on the legality of mushrooms?

all i have heard that is the basis for prohibiting substances is this;

*Has a high potential for abuse.

Has no currently accepted medical use in treatment.

well according to written knowledge, mushrooms cannot be abused cos of the 'tolerence' effect that renders them ineffective for a period of days after use, no?

and i copied that exact bit of text above (*) from a cluster headache page.

there has been first hand evidence for the use of mushrooms in relieving cluster headaches and migraines.

i think this is fairly common knowledge in these forums. so im not meaning to rehash old topics, which isn't a bad thing but,

if there is medical use of mushrooms for head pains and it can not be easily abused then maybe a church... i'll start using the term 'group'... then maybe a group could be formed with the support of cluster headache and migraine sufferers, and although i do not suffer from clusters and now experience migraines less frequently than when i was younger, mushrooms can still act as a 'stress reliever' and 'communicator' for those, like me, that still seek relief from the more common afflictions, stress and detachment/hopelessness.

so the 'group' would act more like a healing centre of sorts which as i am led to believe is in the same vein as Santo Daime. ?

so with the fact that common sense proves that mushrooms can have substantial medicinal use and theraputic use for those that are informed of it and respectful of responsible use, the real quest would be gaining public opinion in our favour.

hell we could even settle for less intense species of mushroom that help in all aspects. again this is more in keeping with healing than with spiritual communication and it seems that there is more hope for the acceptance of that than for another 'church' that claims to 'save' and be the 'right way' to eternal happiness.

ok.

x peace

Edited March 15, 2007 by husk

[XipeTotec]

not sure about all this... it would be great to have legal cover for such things under the banner of a religion. In a way, it could probally be argued that mushroom use (for example) among many individuals is a religion. I am not sure in regards to how the law views activities of churches in regards to illegal activities. We have seen with the native american church that at least in the states, loop holes can be exploited. The other thing with the native american church, is that it began as a "movement" of sorts (which would be great to see here) as opposed to a church being formed to legally protect individuals. I havnt put much thought into this, im just saying shit... you could always join the universal life church, or whatever the hell that dodgy place is called. If any of you do form a legal religion which allows the use of psychoactives, do let me know.

[Infinitee]

hehe, ditto. I want in.

as for the abuse potential, they do regulate the intake of the user to a point, but the drug still can be (and has been) abused. that makes it hard to exploit the 'well-it-regulates-the-user-thru-instant-tolerance' stance.

i could be wrong, but i think the laws regarding mushrooms is something along the vein of, if you are in posession of a 'container' (?) which has any content of dmt (and perhaps its analogues, which psilocybin is, yeah?) then that is illegal. funny thing is, the same law that makes mushrooms illegal makes having a brain illegal, as we contain traces of dmt naturally in our system.

when all you're 'really' doing is antagonising receptors in your brain to receive a spiritual experience and you maintain a productive, happy and contented individual, i think the laws are a bit harsh. and you might be better of trying to 'justify' yourself rather than look for/attack/exploit a loophole in the law.

[husk]

thanks for the support guys.

but Infinitee, just for fun how about we do try and find, hypothetically, a loophole in the law or otherwise, cos noone really seems to know how the law works.

u can buy, possess and cultivate trich cactus but you cannot prepare it or consume it. pefect sense there!

mushrooms. can have, possess them but not in a container? can have them unpicked but not cultivated?

i just don't get it. is it a law just to confuse or is there an actual loophole or an actual understandable position?

just seems to me that a religion/church/group could work better as evident in Santo Daime. although a church doesn't exist here, i don't think, it seems that there would be the possibilty it could considering the position it holds.

and then just on a purely basic level how are ppl supposed to follow the law even if they wanted to if it isn't made easily available and clear to understand?

peace x

[Infinitee]

u can buy, possess and cultivate trich cactus but you cannot prepare it or consume it. pefect sense there!

mushrooms. can have, possess them but not in a container? can have them unpicked but not cultivated?

i just don't get it. is it a law just to confuse or is there an actual loophole or an actual understandable position?

peace x

with mushrooms, as far as i know, it's not having them in a container. it's that the mushroom itself is an organic container of an illegal compound.

i think if you ate a mushroom of a cow-pat without picking it first ( ) then your not in the wrong, but posessing them in any form and of course growing them is quite illegal.

the 'organic container' argument means our brains are illegal, but i still always keep a large stockpile on hand. you know, just for a bit of something different.

i like your ideas, i feel bad for busting them up a little.

[husk]

i like your ideas, i feel bad for busting them up a little.

thanks man, nah no bad feeling, just confused and hate the idea of feeling like a criminal if i ever et mushrooms.

so you would be perfectly safe and law abiding if u just knelt down and muched them straight out from the ground?

that's so weird. fine! we could set up the church around a patch i suppose, a mouthful every time u praise?

the flys are another issue, i wonder if one claimed to be a old mystic christian, would that be cool?

anyway i only pick them for catching and 'settling' flies, cos i hate killing animals but my gf is annoyed by flies so i figure, death by misadventure? or gluttony? not really killing them right?

x peace

Edited March 15, 2007 by husk

[Amulte]

when i became a reverend this was my long term goal, the only way the ethnogen plants will be accepted and legalised if people were to follow the religious beliefs with those particular ethnogens. but the word religion conjurs up a vision of opression and forced thinking, that with my finacial constraint i decided to wait or hand it to another. one plan was to spend substancial time with the peyote church in texas USA, learning the doctrines then bringing the church here. same thing with Santo damie

the only way these plants can be accepted is if we were to get in 1st on public knowledge prior to propoganda. if we wait till the propoganda is out about the plants then any religous use could be seen as an excuse to use substances. make the religious use public knowledge. the only thing that makes a religion legal is the numbers publicly involved.

personally im willing to go to prison for what i believe.

[husk]

i see what yr saying Amulte. but i don't think a church exists that uses mushrooms. does it?

and yr a reverend? what church?

anyway,

they have that march up in nimbin every year don't they?

and now days u can possess a little cannabis, and u only get warnings if illegal.

should/could we have a march here in Sydney or elswhere for mushrooms?

does anyone seem interested or like the sound of that?

i think cannabis and cactus are very well supported through public action/awareness even government action, and cactus is used by the native american church so there is a base there already.

1996 AD : Victoria (Australia) State Council urge decriminalisation of cannabis.

1997 AD : July: SYDNEY MORNING HERALD July 21 1997 p5 reports "A survey of a traditionally conservative NSW electorate has shown overwhelming community support for the decriminalisation of cannabis." New South Wales then decriminalises possession of cannabis - up to 5 plants, 30 grams of leaf, 3 grms of resin and 2 grams of oil.

1997 AD : July: The Attorney General and Minister for Industrial Relations, Australia, JW Shaw QC MLC, announced the end of prison sentences for young cannabis offenders, saying that "I believe many parents would see the imprisonment of their son or daughter for using cannabis as particularly harmful." - from http://www.cannabis.net

but mushrooms...

lets march!

x

[botanika]

We need a licence to drive, its a shame we cant have a licence to fly.

[Amulte]

sorry, should have mentioned that. Universal Life Church, non denominational, all beliefs welcome and they had out reverend to anyone. some people use it for tax, on the pension that wasnt my concern, as said above was in the goal to bring ethnogen beliefs into public light in attempt for acceptance.

as for a religion for mushrooms, there were in the localations about mexico and such. prior to the invasions ofcourse. but isnt the past use enough? if enough people band together with one ideal in mind baised apon the use of any ethnogen for the overal goal of spiritual and psychological well being then it will be accepted. there are countless ancient beliefs tied to the use of psilocybin mushrooms, even if a modern adaptation were to form, so long as it had the numbers, it would be accepted. so long as they make it public. there inlies the danger.

EDIT - ALSO im told the reason they enforce mushroom laws is that some uneducated people will eat any mushroom without research baised on hearsay. if a group were to form, deal with the legal issues and promote the religous, spiritual and/or psychological benefits of psilocybin use, over time it would be accepted and overall benefit humankind.

appologies for the ramble, sleepless...

Edited March 15, 2007 by Amulte

[husk]

ok. organisation names:

please vote (if u wish) by quoting and making the chosen title bold.

The Sanctuary for the Fruit of Evolution

Mushrooms for Man or;

Man for Mushrooms (mf mushrooms! lol!)

Caps of Liberty

Golden Tops Friendship Farm

any other suggestions?

any latin ones?

X peace

[Ace]

I think it'd be a good thing to incorporate salvia divinorum, cacti, mushrooms, cannabis, dmt and all the other potential 'teachers', not just the mushies. If you are going to open people's minds, they should be able to do it via a couple different ways

How about the Church of the Mind? Cheesy or cool?

[Anodyne]

Nice idea, but this has been discussed before and someone (Torsten, I think - try a search & see if you can dig it up) posted the relevant section of law which, as I recall, basically said you couldn't do this because it encourages members to break the current drug laws - also, because of how illicit drugs are thought of, is also considered to be a "health risk" for members. In short, no religious loophole. You'd have to get the drug laws changed first.

[blangschpeer]

I think if you could prove native use in aus you'd be taking a massive step in the right direction.

If a substance has safely been used for thousands of years that should strike a significant blow right?

At the very least it would outline the stupidity of the current laws

[Ace]

Unfortunately, I dont think its that easy - how long have mushies been used in the Americas? How about DMT carriers? They are safe and have proved to be so, yet they are banned almost globally apart from a few parts of southern america (and possibly a couple other places).

Yes, this has been proven to be a good strategy - it worked with peyote - but the use of anything in Aus is almost unheard of (and certainly not well documented)... It would be nice, but I think the ship has sailed for the hallucinogens down under. Unless they are legalised or at least decriminalised, they probably wont get the thumbs up. It will have to stay an Underground Religion I think.

[liftyourskinnyfists]

One problem is that those in power are great at talking out of both sides of their mouth and confusing people. In the states, we are suppose to have freedom of religion, but that is simply not true. I believe that they're some groups here that use poisonous snakes and drink strychnine in their rituals and they have religious protection, but somehow eating a psychedelic sacrament is just too dangerous.

I've also thought that an alternative route may be more realistic, but it would require a large number of people to participate. What would happen if we got 1% of the drug using population in the world or in a location to walk into their local law enforcement office and demand that they be prosecuted (more like persecuted) to the full extent of the law for possession/consumption/whatever of substance X. Basically what I'm saying is that we would overload the criminal system(s) so fast and quick that the fucker would crumble and the only solution would be to reevaluate the current drug laws.. Unfortunately, I doubt that that sort of unity exists or could be created anywhere (I do however seem to remember this sort of thing happening somewhere a year or two ago, does anyone remember?). Most people are going to run and hide if it means they could face jail time; who could blame them. As unrealistic as it sounds I can't help thinking that these drug laws only work because we hide and let them catch use as strays when we could overload them to the point which any sort of punishment would be absurd. Who is going to run the countries when everyone is in prison? I suppose it will always be a dream of mine.

BTW, AFOAF was charged just for having some woody plant material of a plant that supposedly contained DMT though he can't for the life of him think of what it could have been. This wasn't extracted mind you, but when the result came back from the lab that didn't matter; at least that's what the public attorney said. My friend brought up the fact that even if he had been planning on using the plant material ritualistically, that he would, in principal, be doing so with religious intent. His lawyer basically laughed at him and said that there was no way that he had a chance at that defence. My friend is also a minister of the Universal Life Church BTW for the same reason. My friend opted for the deffered judgement, as he was broke and felt he wouldn't get a fair or impartial trial. The moral of the story is fucking be careful. The Inquisition is very much alive and disguised.

Edited March 16, 2007 by liftyourskinnyfists

[Green Osiris]

when i became a reverend this was my long term goal

So by filling out an online form you ‘became’ a reverend ? Gee, that’s credible, mate.

Perhaps someone might find an online form titled “Becoming a certified idiot is only six clicks away”.

personally im willing to go to prison for what i believe.

Yo have my support on that goal of yours, they don't have net access in prison

Edited March 16, 2007 by Green Osiris

[Μορφέας]

Church of the Mind

I like, Something like this but with some better words, and maybe a latin frase thrown in or the latin translation using the plural for minds, maybe something to do with expansion hmmmmm

Edited March 16, 2007 by tepa

[Amulte]

GO - the title means nothing as said above. in a brain fart a few years ago i decided it may helpin the public image outside this community if i ever did make over there for a few months. i have no issues discussing mistakes or errors of judgement ive made in the past.

to air is human but i see no need for your personal attacks, perchance you could address them to me in PM instead publicly humiliating yourself?

Edited March 16, 2007 by Amulte

[Green Osiris]

GO - the title means nothing as said above.

You're right there. So why mention it at all ? You're not a Reverend.

in a brain fart a few years ago i decided it may helpin the public image outside this community

You just said the title means nothing. Isn't this comment of 'helping' then irrelevant ?

to air is human but i see no need for your personal attacks

Personal attacks ? Did I specifically call *you* an idiot ? Please re-read, or get a literate grown up to help you.

 

publicly humiliating yourself?

The art of manipulating public opinion is lost on you, you should leave it to your heros who are far more equipped to use this tool.

[Μορφέας]

I dont know... Thread smells funny

Edited March 16, 2007 by tepa

[Amulte]

i never said you called me an idiot and dont see why you think thats what i was refering to unless you were infact making that insuation. public manipulation is your game, not mine. unless you have somthing relivant to say address it to me directly, i havnt the time to continue any public debate and refuse to do so from now on.

back to the thread, i think a psychedelic church would work towards to evolution of mankind through psychedelics, "Church of Psychedlic Evolution" LOL, but yes i have to agree it wouldbe entierly incriminatory. in china members of a goverment dubbed 'cult' are being inprisioned frompractising their peaceful beliefs and the same thing would happen here, tho maybe not as severe.

EDIT - Please forgive my spelling, insuation is a typo of insinuation.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Amulte

[Hagakure]

hmmmmmmm

here is the problem

you want a psychedelic religion

but there are legal ramifications

so what you need to do is make it look like there is a religion.

then let the religion create itself in reality.

;)