Fear of DMT

[Guest onemind]

Hi,

I dont know about you guys but when i am preparing for a dmt trip my heart starts beating faster and i get some kind of anxious adrenaline rush. I am yet to be able to smoke it from a state of calm as my stupid untrained body wont let me, its as if my body knows death is coming so it makes my body beat faster.

Anyway, just wondering with all you experienced shamans out there, does that initial apprehension ever go away? Or is there some kind of shamanic preparation that can be done?

I always smoke it completely alone at around 2am when everything is quiet. I sit on a meditation cushion in a dark room with only a lit candle in front of me. Maybe it is my setting that is freaking me out? After smoking it though, all my fear and human reactions disappear so i dont really think it is much of an issue, i just thought it would be nice to get to a confident state so i can look forward to it instead of wasting so much energy fearing it. Is this normal or am i just a pussy?

At least with meditation its a gradual awakening but with dmt you don't have a choice over what happens.

Any advice or experiences would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

[naja naja]

UR not alone. I'm still too apprehensive to even try it. With other Psychedelics u can do sumthing before comeon to distract/forget u have taken it until it hits u. But I imagine this would be difficult when the comeup is mear seconds.

I figure I'll just know when I'm ready.

[nabraxas]

I'm still too apprehensive to even try it.

same here.

i came across Salvia first, & after that i decided that i didn't really enjoy being blasted into psychospace too much......

[MORG]

Alcohol (as a CNS depressant) could work well to dull your anxiety and promote relaxation. Bit of the ol' Dutch courage!

Edited December 18, 2006 by MORG

[stonewolf]

Alcohol (as a CNS depressant) works well to dull your anxiety and promote relaxation. Bit of the ol' Dutch courage!

it also dulls the strength of the trip...i much prefer a nice relaxing cone of MJ before a DMT cone.

[Ace]

Alcohol (as a CNS depressant) works well to dull your anxiety and promote relaxation. Bit of the ol' Dutch courage!

Cant say from any expirience whatsoever - as I dont have access to such substances, let alone the balls to try them anyway well, maybe one day... But wouldnt mixing alcohol with such substances be incredibly dangerous? I mean, maybe a little bit might not make a huge difference, but these are powerful sacraments, and I'm sure that mixing them could lead to some dodgy side-effects - though I dont really have solid knowledge in this area, so dont mistake this for anything factual

Though it could very well be the answer to onemind's question. But with time, I'm sure you'll grow to be much stronger than the jitters and you'll be able to control them or they might just stop with enough practice

[MORG]

it also dulls the strength of the trip...

I've heard that MJ does the same.

i much prefer a nice relaxing cone of MJ before a DMT cone.

MJ generally makes me anxious and self-conscious so I can only imagine what might happen if I ever tried to combine those two.

Me ---> <--- The cosmos

No thanks.

[MORG]

But wouldnt mixing alcohol with such substances be incredibly dangerous? I mean, maybe a little bit might not make a huge difference, but these are powerful sacraments, and I'm sure that mixing them could lead to some dodgy side-effects

I'm not aware of any physiological reasons as to why this might be the case.

[Ace]

Im not aware of any either - probably shouldnt have even put that post in - just wanted to keep newbies like myself out of mixtures such as these in case of any possible dangerous situations . Also, onemind mentions that he sits in front of a lit candle - this is not really recommended due to the loss of bodily control during these expiriences and the dangers that can come from knocking a burning item over, though I dont blame him for using this method, It'd be both relaxing and engaging to stare at while falling into the realms of hyperspace

[phloom]

Someone told me "i don't think you can really ever prepare. Its never what you expect. My heart races with expectation when im about to smoke, but i don't know what for?"

Its seems to me that sometimes you are harmonious with its frequencies and sometimes you aren't.

[Tripitaka]

From experience something like pod putty or pod exudate will do much to lessen anxiety. I have found that the initial fear/apprehension means that valuable time is lost when exploring these breif states and the aforementioned can do much to ensure mental and body load are greatly reduced, hence you will be able to go further in a shorter amount of time.

Of pharmacological interest, benzodiazep**es may also be worthy of attention.

[Guest onemind]

Thanks guys, i had a bottle of red the other night with some friends and we got into the dmt conversation. I got really excited and start rambling on about it and i got into some kind of drunken inspiration for launching myself to another dimension. I took my friends inside and got the pipe out but they started to have doubts and said maybe we should do this when we are sober. This was coming from guys that dont fear anything when they are drunk so it is as if the human mind knows that this is too powerful a substance to take lightly

Anyway, I might just use this thread as a trip report to compare my experiences with other fellow travellers.

It all started with me, home alone after uni with a nice pouch of dmt. I was waiting for my glass pipe to arrive in the mail but i thought stuff it, i'll find a different way to get it into me. I cut the top off a 1 litre plastic coke bottle and put a large amount of dmt onto a teaspoon. I didn't know how big a dose should be but i realise now that i must of had at least a gram on the teaspoon (big mistake). I sat on my bed with a small table next to me with a candle on it. I put the teaspoon over the candle and watched the yellow wax melt into a brown liquid. It started to sizzle and lots of white vapour started to come off, waaaaay more than i expected. I put my coke bottle funnel over the spoon and started breathing it in. I took about 4 or 5 deep breaths not knowing at the time that i was seriously over dosing. On the 5th inhalation i move my hand away from my mouth with the funnel in it but my hand just kept on going out into the distance. I knew i had a split second to blow the candle out before losing contact so i leant forward, manged a small puff out on the candle and then my mind did something i will never forget.

It was the most insane thing that has ever happened to me, it was like my mind was iterating the image of my room over and over again on some kind of crazy loop. I layed back on the bed and closed my eyes. It was bright white and there was no me, no earth, no colors, no aliens, no thoughts, just blank white stillness. There was no euphoria, no feelings, just blank white. As i came back to awareness of my body i had to relearn that i was human, had a past, had a life and that i studied things. I realised things dont matter, all that i had studied and learned didnt exist in that state and i realised that my little human illusion was just that. I stood up and was very aware that i was some kind of mammal, i looked at myself in the mirror and knew that i was some kind of monkey. After about 5 minutes i was my old self again but the experience somehow changed me. That will teach me for taking too much of the stuff

I was confused as to why i didnt see all the psychedelic colours that other people see ect so i tried it again the next night. This time i made a pipe out of a beer can by punching little holes in it, sprinkled a bit of oregano over the holes and then some dmt. This time i put about 1 tenth of the amount i had the day before. I sat on my cushion where i usually meditate and meditated for a solid hour before smoking it. My mind was calm like it usually is after meditation but the anxiety was there. I remember thinking, its the middle of the night, i am alone, do i really want to be surrounded by aliens? Wouldn't that just be the most frightening thing? I then thought, screw it, you went to the trouble of getting this stuff, you've done your research, you cant die and the worst that can happen is that you will be raped by a crocodile. I picked up the can and smoked it all. I figured that instead of closing my eyes, i will try to stay in the room by fixing my attention on the candle flame in front of me. I stared at the candle and it became so still, it was perfect 1 pointed concentration on the candle like buddhist monks achieve in their meditation. My mind was so still and then a beutiful pink mushroom hovered above the candle. I knew this is what monks call a nimita, this arises in meditation before one enters a state called jhana. I watched the nimita and everything else melted away. I was in a beautiful calm, serene state, void of sensory experience. Just my radiant mind.

This experience confused me also, i went into a deep meditative state known as jhana which i had experienced many times before in meditation without drugs. I realised that dmt just blocks off the 5 senses and just leaves your mind behind. Meditators with trained minds who know how to concentrate go into jhana and untrained minds, who have no concentrative powers experience their subconcious like patterns, aliens ect ect.

I was so happy because i figured dmt out and it was thanks to my meditation training. Every time i smoke dmt, i go into jhana, no matter how large the dose is. To prove my experiment, i smoke a large pipe of dmt without meditating or focusing on a candle similar to how non meditators would be before smoking. I closed my eyes and focused on nothing in particular, just let my mind do what it wanted, i saw a wave of the most intricated fractals, complex patterns, symbols, books, visions of other worlds ect ect and was completely aware that this was my underlying subconcious mind and not an objective reality with aliens that terrence mckenna and other undisciplined trippers experience. I realised how easy it would be for people to confuse this illusion of the neural net for another "dimension" or some other part of the universe.

So, what have i got from dmt? I got a short cut to jhana and a gateway to my subconcious mind which i can now use to deal with whatever negative patterns i have down there. I remember standing up after a good time spent in jhana on a massive dmt cone and thinking, i have mastered dmt. The drug does not suprise me any more, it doesn't reveal anything that isnt already there. Its not that you master dmt, you master your mind. You are not exploring dmt, you are exploring conciousness.

I come to the realisation that maybe a little bit of fear is good so that you dont lose respect for what you are doing and always make preparations and dont overdo it. If it wasn't such an ordeal i would probably smoke it every day for my daily insight into the universe at large

Alot of trippers i have told this too simply cannot accept my theory, they are adamant that they are exploring the universe, the elves are actual real intelligent beings in another dimension ect ect. I cant believe terrence mckenna could be so wrong after writing all those books, unless he did know and was merely trying to sell more books. Buddhist mind training and dmt are a good mix that leads to sanity, dmt with no training leads to grand delusion, paranoia and flakey perceptions of the universe.

[mu!]

There's some pretty bold claims there onemind ;) Good on ya

[reptyle]

actual real intelligent beings in another dimension

dont u experince this type of semingly independant autonomous beings when your not on DMT? does that mean they are more "real" or in fact any different to the other "levels" that you are percieving always that knit together to form your wake conciousness?

the method that the information is brought to your attention is, alot of the times through conversational type interactions with "entities" of many differnt forms, they represent personalities which exist within and without, you can teach and learn from your miriad personalities. it is the joy of conciousness to know itself.

[Ace]

Wow. Thats one hell of a discovery there onemind - I'm glad some of us are able to reach that level. I've yet to expirience any of that, but this is the road I was hoping it would take us down.

I really just want to shatter my ego and strip my personality down to nothing. I want to feel compasion without my ego getting in the way. I just want to be on the same level as all other living things. Sounds really cheesy and all that but its that feeling that it is cheesy and kinda stupid that I want to shatter. Kinda like The Wall by Pink Floyd - you have to break down what society has created in order to really see. What it is that is on the other side of the wall, well that might only be visible after letting go of reality and all that has been constructed brick by brick by our fore fathers. Weather or not that wall was accidentally constructed or has been created on purpose, I guess that could be debated until the end of eternity. Either way we need to tear it down so that we can live the way a civilization should - one were people dont starve to death just because their soil doesnt contain something a richer country wants. One where something that grows in the dirt is not prohibited. One where we dont consume all our resources to excess when we should be able to conserve our precious resources.

Not too sure where I saw it, but there was reference to a book that talked about the world as a whole but minumised it down to the size of a village (possibly called Global Village?). Anyway it contained just 100 people (maybe) and of that about 30 were starving to death and had diseases of sorts and those sort of things. It really puts things into perspective when people see smaller numbers, because they just cant process the 6 billion or whatever the global population sits at atm. If only everything was treated as though we were one community working together, though I'm sure that would still lead to building a Wall sooner or later. Hell, this could have been the plan that our fore fathers perceived, and it eventuated to this.

Anyway enough of that heavy spiritual one-ness Any thoughts/comments?

[sobriquet]

Fear is relative. I must say that in a more reckless invincible part of my life I felt absolutely zero fear for any agent used for mind exploration.

In a faraway country several experiences with ketamine which like DMT completely pulls the rug of reality out from underneath you can teach a person much. Complete dissociation of mind and body.

I never had fear before; and have little fear now, but the decision to try DMT would fill me with some apprehension.

Knowing what I do of the world; having a more solid place in the world and society, the fears I have are of losing what I have achieved in life. The stakes are higher I guess. So yes I do fear the possible consequences and am knowledgable about them. Like it or not, we live in the world and we have to attain the things we desire. Its what you aim for and desire that should help you make your decision one way or the other.

[Guest onemind]

Interesting thoughts, just a quick reply to some of Sobriquets comments.

Fear is relative.

I have come to know fear as the creation of the amygdala in the brain that has evolved as a survival mechanism to guard against outside attack. In a scientific study on the amygdala as the bases of fear, they removed the amygdala from chimpanzees and they became completely fearless. They again removed it from mice and the mice with amygdalas were afraid and ran away from cats but the mice without went up to the cat and sniffed it fearlessly.

They also found some humans who had their amygdalas injured or removed because of accidents and they were also without fear and would appear as crazy to normal amydala mammals like ourselves. This proves, fear is not a part of the universe, it is just the concious representation of a survival mechanism. Just like eyes create a concious represention on the visual cortex which in turn creates the vision illusion in conciousness.

So fear of dmt is just the natural reaction of the amygdala to protect from any substance that could possibly jeapordise survival.

Rationalizing fear in this way helps me to feel the fear and do it anyway because my rational mind is stronger than my amygdala mind

Knowing what I do of the world; having a more solid place in the world and society, the fears I have are of losing what I have achieved in life.

I hear that alot from people who i discuss dmt with. I guess that is why the buddha recommended renouncing this world if you are serious about figuring it out. Its a bit hard to let go of everything if you are so attached to the human game. I guess this is what seperates the seekers from the weekend tripprers.

[Guest onemind]

Like it or not, we live in the world and we have to attain the things we desire

We do live in the world but we do not have to attain our desires. Again, this is where buiddhism comes in. Western society gives us freedom to chase what we desire, buddhism gives us freedom from desire.

Desire leads to more of the illusion which in turn is one of the main sources of suffering. Letting go is the path to unlimited freedom, desires of a monkey for a banana keeps the monkey a monkey.

[botanika]

I think its a little bit like running in a race. No matter how well you've trained, what supplements you've had, how good you are or how good the track is, as soon as your on the starting line you get that same heart beat anxiety. I dont think you can escape it completely and perhaps you have to deal with that rush, with your own will power, to experience the success that follows.

[sobriquet]

We do live in the world but we do not have to attain our desires. Again, this is where buiddhism comes in. Western society gives us freedom to chase what we desire, buddhism gives us freedom from desire.

Desire leads to more of the illusion which in turn is one of the main sources of suffering. Letting go is the path to unlimited freedom, desires of a monkey for a banana keeps the monkey a monkey.

I understand your point of view but cannot agree with it entirely. It is a philosophical position whether you consider the material world as being important or not.

But consider that your lungs desire air, and in the heat you desire water.

You frame up the sentence in an arrogant way that the monkey is somehow an inferior state of being. The desire the monkey has for a banana is not what keeps a monkey what it is; that desire is what keeps it alive.

To try to brush aside desire is not what my philosophy is about. I'm not about self-denial or denial of desire. We are material beings and it is natural for us to want material things.

Balance is what is required. The middle road; and that should remind you of the central tenet of Buddhism. Never be extreme and shed the arrogance of believing that you are anything more than what you are.

Peace.

[Guest onemind]

You frame up the sentence in an arrogant way that the monkey is somehow an inferior state of being.

It was simply my intention to knock man off his pedestil and realize his animal nature. The thing about transpersonal experiences is that the monkey animal part completely dissappears. Day to day boundaries that we take for real are completely disolved into an unlimited state with zero desire for anything. my point is, in order to experience such a state we need to learn how to let go of our minkey state and this begins by giving up desires for bananas.

To try to brush aside desire is not what my philosophy is about. I'm not about self-denial or denial of desire. We are material beings and it is natural for us to want material things.

I would say we are immaterial beings and material is an illusion that continues to make us suffer.

The middle road; and that should remind you of the central tenet of Buddhism

It is funny how people can use the middle road to justify anything. A central tenent of buddhism is renunciaation and not grasping. Enjoy your bananas, while they last..

[Guest onemind]

I think its a little bit like running in a race. No matter how well you've trained, what supplements you've had, how good you are or how good the track is, as soon as your on the starting line you get that same heart beat anxiety.

That is a good way of putting it, no matter how much i know about my brain, the amygdala still works whether i like it or not The important thing is though is to not let it have its own way

[sobriquet]

It is funny how people can use the middle road to justify anything. A central tenent of buddhism is renunciaation and not grasping.

Perhaps you'd better read more about the Buddha's life...

He became a shramana, a wandering, homeless ascetic dedicated to meditation. He hoped to find enlightenment by completely detaching himself from the world, swinging to the polar opposite of his earlier life. Over time, he removed himself farther and farther from the earthly world, to the point that he was close to starvation. But he still hadn't achieved enlightenment.

He decided that if he continued on that path, he would die without reaching any understanding, so he gave up the ascetic life and accepted a meal from a stranger. He decided to take the middle road, the life between the luxury he had known and the poverty he had known.

ascetic |??s?t?k| adjective characterized by or suggesting the practice of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons.

Nirvana means roughly 'to extinguish' and this does not mean extinguishing desires; but rather it means the extinguishing of extremes, ignorance, hatred, and ultimately suffering.

Peace.

[Guest onemind]

I appreciate your ignorance of buddhist scriptures but you are mistaken.

That story is told about how the buddha practiced extreme ascetism by starving his body. He accepted food because starvvation is not the way to a powerful mind. The middle way simply means not going to the extremes of starvation or self indulgence, just eating enough bananas to keep the body going. It doesn't mean trying to work hard to get gold plated bananas with air conditioning because that would be the other extreme of self indulgence.

There is a big difference between the modest life of a buddhist monk and upper middle class 21st century living. We were all born into palaces far greater than even the buddha had. I am not telling people to not eat bananas, just dont revolve your life around them and this is what the buddha meant by the middle way.

Nirvana means roughly 'to extinguish' and this does not mean extinguishing desires; but rather it means the extinguishing of extremes, ignorance, hatred, and ultimately suffering.

It means extinguishing of everything that you take to be you, including your desires.

[sobriquet]

It means extinguishing of everything that you take to be you, including your desires.

Including the desire itself to extinguish everything you take to be you?