Hypothetical Tinctures, Comments or Critisisums Velcome!

[Μορφέας]

Iv been chucking up a few recipies and Iv got two so far. Im going to soak the ingrediants in 160Proof Rum and evaporate it down so its nice and concentrate.

Tincture 1 nice and relaxing: Poppies, Saffron, Sceletium, kratom and Lotus and maybe a pinch of Bhoney oil.

Tincture 2: Cubenis, HWB extract, Loph or Panchoi, Spidergrass and maybe a bit of tincture 1.

Its really just a few ideas, Hopfully i can evaporate the liquid down to a nice dark liquid for a vial and dripper that can be stored away neatly.

Edited November 24, 2006 by tepa

[apothecary]

You wouldn't do that would you, because such things are illegal.

[faustus]

tepa, assuming that your location is wrong and you actually live in a country where many of the ingredients you speak of are legal and proper:

why not make a separate tincture for every plant? it's unlikely that you'll find the find combination of each first time round, and you'll probably regret throwing them into the mix without testing different combinations. for instance, at low doses kratom is meant to be a stimulant, but at higher doses it's meant to have more of an opiate effect. at higher doses still, it's an emetic. do you know what dose of each is right? poppies also cause emesis. sleep + vomit = going out rock n roll style. when it comes to drugs it's always important to err on the side of caution because the stakes are very high.

also it's unclear as to why you want to make these cocktails. are you going through a phase of "i want to take as many compounds as i can in one sitting"?

[spice]

I'm not sure that these substances will really complement eachother, but none the less ship em to a gnome in international waters and get his report back to us

[coin]

must concur....the combo's don't really make much sense

try to get some experience with single herbs, then start simple with combinations if something speaks to you..

[Μορφέας]

sweet, Il scrap it and test the waters a bit before I leap into any tinctures in the future.

Cheers guys

[planthelper]

hmm, got nothing to say about your second tincture apart that it's very illegal...

your first (edit was second aswell by mistake) tincture contains one illegal substance only (kratom), so people in most other countries other than oz could freely experiment with your idea...

be carefull tepa, as sceletium is a ssri inhibitor.

google the term serotonin syndrom and ssri.

i think i experienced once serotonin syndrom and it was quite scary. once the syndrom recided i had though the best drug experience ever.

in short mixing sceletium with some of the wrong herbs has the potential to kill you!

the interactions of lotus, saffron, and kratom with a ssri are prolly unknown. so you could be breaking new ground, if you are somewher where it's legal to do so, as kratom is illegal in oz. anyway, i found this

Interaction of serotonergic antidepressants and opioid analgesics: Is serotonin syndrome going undetected?Gnanadesigan N, Espinoza RT, Smith R, Israel M, Reuben DB.

Jewish Home for the Aging, Reseda, CA, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To describe the potential for interaction between opioids and serotonergic antidepressants leading to the development of serotonin syndrome (SS), mechanism of the interaction, and the spectrum of SS in elderly residents of a long-term care facility. DESIGN: Case series. SETTING: Long-term care facility (LTCF) in California. PARTICIPANTS: Four elderly LTCF residents treated with serotonergic antidepressants including selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) or mirtazapine and opioids. MEASUREMENTS: Signs and symptoms suggestive of SS. RESULTS: We describe 4 cases of probable SS among elderly residents of a LTCF. The spectrum of serotonin toxicity ranged from visual hallucinations, muscle rigidity, myoclonus, or hypertension in patients taking an opiate with an SSRI to lethargy, hypotension, and hypoxia in a patient taking tramadol and mirtazapine. CONCLUSION: While many can benefit from coadministration of serotonergic antidepressants and opioids, it appears that some individuals are at increased risk for SS. Since SS is a clinical diagnosis, heightened clinician awareness of the possibility of SS among patients receiving SSRI or mirtazapine in combination with opioids may lead to earlier detection and avoidance of potentially lethal consequences.

PMID: 16005413 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

and i think to remeber that kratom binds on the same receptors as opiates, so there might be a very unknow risk involved. saffron, seem to potentiate the effects of opiates, so we might can conclude that this further increases some unknown dangers.

but somehow, it's clear to me that you have researched those herbs, and i agree that there combination could be interressting, but to my humble opinon, this combo could be dangerous. maybe the right (low) dosage of sceletium could make it save, but i personelly would not take that risk.

i'm a shaman and not a sienctist, and my technical understanding of ssr inhibitation is very limited, but to my feelings, serotonin reuptake inhibitation is at times a unpredictable thing. i never took prescribtion ssri's, but the literature tells us about enormous moodswings in some patients. i guess (and it's a very, very wild guess) that ssri is not always a process of equal intensety, no at times the gap might flush it selfe, whilst at other times it might get clogged up, and as a result a lot (far more than usualy) of serotonin stays in the gap!!!

hmm, i get carried away here, but yes i propose the theory of flush out phases within the fiering gaps. the brain doesn't want too much old serotonin bouncing around. i think reuptaked serotonin is what makes you sluggish, whilst total fresh one and heaps of it, happens when you have a major inspiration or blissfull, happy moment. when i used sceletium as a anti depressant, i could not get the "happy feeling" i get when, for example, i'm playing the gitarre.

apart from this theory, i further guess that serotonin amonts beeing released into to gap, will vary greatly aswell, because of various factors, which might be, time of the day, your overall mood, sudden happenings which make you excited and so on.

in other words that's why sometimes a lil bit of dope get get you more high than expected, because you did some of those ceremonial type behavior which might have increased your serotonin beforhand.

hmm, i think i sidetracked a bit, wher did all those ideas come from?

hmmmmmm, prolly has do to with serotonin, hahahahaha.

Edited November 26, 2006 by planthelper

[mescalito]

Wise words from PH.

Shamanism is a practice.

Practice makes perfect and take note of not only those who have come before you but note well you have an individual make up and response to stimulii.

We would like to see you grow as we all have.

Whilst you're enthusiasm is appreciated,have patience young grasshopper

[Green Osiris]

On the subject of tinctures, I checked out the progress on some local Lactuca patches, and they shall be flowering very soon. Have been discussing the options of tinctures, with the plan to wildcraft the plants, dry them out, powder down and let sit in alcohol for a month or so. Our first plan was to by some very pricey 90+% spirit, but meethinks a cheapo 40% vodka might suffice.

Any ideas on latex suspension vs the water content of alc ?

Mission is strictly for tincture, no gluggy, messy extract.

[_e_]

make sure any wild collected herbacious material (especially the weedy varieties) are collected from non polluted areas.

most of these ive seen are growing along roadsides and carparks and drainage ditches e.t.c

Trust me, if ur going to collect material to work with, u want to go with plants that are growing a decent distance from roadways and run off areas... A simple wash aint gonna do it im afraid!

Also, i would consider doing a flower essence off these if you could find a nice big healthy population growing in a pristine environ. (well pristine despite the presence of a weed species, but u knowwhatamine!)

Id like to see a cacti flower tincture, as i believe such things would in fact be active to some degree!

(i would love to do some flower essences, but id say the opportunity is sometime off yet)

P.P.S- Bombay sapphire ;)

Edited November 25, 2006 by ({E})

[themagicmushroom]

poppies also cause emesis. sleep + vomit = going out rock n roll style. when it comes to drugs it's always important to err on the side of caution because the stakes are very high.

Eh, found that one out recently... Sculling coffee and doing laps of the house to stay awake. No poppys again for me.

[Green Osiris]

make sure any wild collected herbacious material (especially the weedy varieties) are collected from non polluted areas.

Good food for thought there, my local patches (growing in an absolute abundance) grows between some pretty depleted man-made wetland and a wide stormwater drain. The whole area has varying degrees of bad smells depending on when you go down there.

However what specific issues would this cause ? We all eat foods that are grown from cowshit and dosed with some pretty nasty pesticides that end up in the soil, so how would dried, crushed lactuca steeped in vodka(or gin!) be of any more detriment ?

[coin]

Bombay sapphire ?! you've got to be joking ?

*pours another G&T* ;-P