Lunacy

[Greeny]

I have begun to wonder of recent times as to how the moon affects us as land dwellers as opposed to life forms dependant on the sea’s to live in.

I hypothesise that lunacy (one going mad on a full moon) is in fact a mechanism for survival. If you ever want to have a fun night out a full moon is opportune provided there is no cloud cover. Humans and animals alike seem to act very different during a full moon compared to any other night in the moons cycle. I believe very strongly that the increased light at night is the triggering affect in this.

We as humans came from the wild into civilised society over a period of time. A lot of our mechanisms for survival in the wild still affect us today. To the point where one can go insane trying to figure their own emotions. During these periods of heightened light during nocturnal periods the nocturnal predators have a massive advantage over any possible prey. The full moon I believe activates the predator mechanism in human beings. Being in the age of enlightenment we are at these basics for survival would be very confusing and would loosen one’s inhibitions greatly. Predators are great risk takers compared with conservative prey.

Paranoia for me seems to increase during the full moon as well as my tendency toward aggression. During the no moon however I feel a lot more calm and relaxed. I believe that being an omnivorous species I am paranoid because I may become prey of a nocturnal predator/s however being able to gain nutrients from meat the predator inside me is eager to take a hold of the opportunity I have been given and hunt.

I am not the wisest or most emotionally stable person you could ever meet. I at this moment in life let my body do the talking and my mouth just does the walking. In this I mean my body tells me what I need to do. My mouth justifies this to the world which can be quite labour intensive sometimes.

Anyhow this is just my theory based upon my own emotions and experiences. As a scientist I believe it wise to expand my test field to obtain a more accurate result. All feedback wether negative or positive is very welcome indeed :D

[Hagakure]

mate of mine worked in a nursing home and said that the oldies all acted extra crazy when there was a full moon.

this was backed up by a mates mum who also works in a nursing home.

would be interesting to compare data for assaults etc in the city to the cycles of the moon.

see if they increase when there is a brighter moon.

drunk people, old people etc are probably better indicators for lunacy. less control over themselves? just an idea.

[occidentalis]

Psychologist Ivan Kelly of the University of Saskatchewan (with James Rotton and Roger Culver) reviewed 100 studies claiming that the phase of the moon influenced behavior, and no correlation was found. A study of 4,190 suicides in Sacramento County over a 58-year period showed no correlation to the phase of the moon. Kelly, Ronnie Martins, and Donald Saklofske evaluated twenty-one studies of births related to the phase of the moon and found no correlation.

Psychologist Arnold Lieber of the University of Miami reported a correlation of homicides in Dade County to moon phase, but later analysis of the data - including that by astronomer George Abell - did not support Lieber's conclusions.

Astronomer Daniel Caton analyzed 70,000,000 birth records from the National Center for Health Statistics, and no correlation between births and moon phase was found.

In 1959 Walter and Abraham Menaker reported that a study of 500,000 births in New York City showed a 1% increase in births around a full moon. Follow up research did not support this finding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_effect

[_e_]

i thought it was given that 'lunacy' is actually a neurochemical response to moon cycles and the moons effect on water and the surface of the earth?

As we are >%85 water, and the moon regulates the movement of water over the earths surface, it makes sense that there are changes on a physiological level. (as we make up a collective 'sea' of water)

Only the smallest change in neurochemistry is needed for a noticeable change in awareness, so i always presumed that it was on a full moon when there was the most influence.

[occidentalis]

i thought it was given that 'lunacy' is actually a neurochemical response to moon cycles and the moons effect on water and the surface of the earth?

The moon affects water by gravity. It may be that the water in your body is also affected by the moon's gravity. It would be slightly pulled towards the moon, and perhaps this could have physiological effects.

However, because you tend to move around during the day (and at night), the direction you face changes and therefore the effect of the moon's gravity on the water in your body would overall be neutral. I don't think this is the mechanism by which lunacy occurs, if it does.

So perhaps there is another mechanism of action? Personally I'd favour some sort of 'collective unconscious' process - the moon is full, enough people think "cool, the moon is full, lets have some fun" to create some sort of lunacy critical mass, and everyone else starts acting a bit weird.

[The Dude]

The moon affects water by gravity. It may be that the water in your body is also affected by the moon's gravity. It would be slightly pulled towards the moon, and perhaps this could have physiological effects.

However, because you tend to move around during the day (and at night), the direction you face changes and therefore the effect of the moon's gravity on the water in your body would overall be neutral. I don't think this is the mechanism by which lunacy occurs, if it does.

So perhaps there is another mechanism of action? Personally I'd favour some sort of 'collective unconscious' process - the moon is full, enough people think "cool, the moon is full, lets have some fun" to create some sort of lunacy critical mass, and everyone else starts acting a bit weird.

I was of the thinking that it is the gravitational pull of the moon, or the combined pulls of the sun and moon? that effects behaviour. MM getting into all that astrological stuff yeah. Don't the planets (in theory) effect our bheaviour.. our fate and all that jazz...

Could it be that we as part of the greater body, that is our galaxy, and beyond that i guess, the whole universe yeah...

Mmmm all theory here of course. Just thinking of the oldschool belief systems of mapping .. mm either the zodiac or. the known planetsof our system (am unsure?) to our human bodies. To signify the whole 'as above so below' belief. I guess one could liken this to the 'holographic universe' theory.

mm anyway No real Science here... but I recko the moon may very well effect our human behaviour, if not in a direct phisiological sense, then , as creach suggested, in a collective unconscious sense. The mythology and history assigned to the moon and the beliefs invested in the symbol is perhaps still felt today, as an echoe from the past.. but also continually re-enforced by our belief that 'shit it's a full moon, things are gonna be crazy'

anecdotal evidence suggests that there are more ppl injured, goin into hopsitals annat on a full moon - no study to confirm this tho :/

Hmm anyhow.. our whole planetary system here is too damn funky. It seems to be in such a harmony. It still amazes me how we seem to be suspended in these perfect orbits, never gravitating too much towards a collision or any of that. Just sitting ehre prime for living and creating... Just a thought of mine that maybe this situation is .. engineered.. hmm by nature? by god? i mean look at the harmony goddammit! I won't be preaching this intelligent design crap cuz i dont believe it.. or do I?

what I guess I'm leaning towards is that nature.. natural processes of evolution and such are an intelligent process. Not directed by an omnipotent god overlooking everything, self directed, by every conscious god in existence, which in essence is the same collective mind..

I liked the analogy of a single human mind.. that has it's own internal dialog as do we all.. but the mind goes insane, it fragments and has alter egos competing for supremacy... Religions and Mythologies often describe creation as a fragmenting from perfection into chaos... or sumfink. Or a fragmenting of the initial source into smaller and smaller parts. Satan (or is it Lucifer) is described as a splitting of gods light.. hmm i think. anyway fuck religion! (over the over-analysing, stop being so damn cryptic fuckers, i have no time, yer full of shit yahweh)

...but yeh To me this symbology reflects the.. would ya call it 'birth' of our current human consciousness. The seperation from the source, the divine, nature? dunno

hmm i digress...

mebbe the moons gravity is affecting us all. The slightest change in behaviour of one person, i guess is expounded when every1 is acting slightly different, guess thats when group mentality comes into play.

Edited September 27, 2006 by El Duderino

[-YT-]

What is Astrology?

The Search for a Pattern. Man is born into a world teeming with life. Everywhere the restless energy of life takes on form, colour and identity.

Why? For what purpose?

Questions as old as the human race. The unique characteristic of man, forever asking questions, searching for reasons. Man, just one of the milliard forms of life-expression on Earth and yet he must find a reason for all the is percieved by his concious mind. Out of the profusion and apprent chaos of life about him he seeks to establish order, to recognise a pattern and purpose embracing all things.

Is there a pattern to life? Or is everything about us simply the chance, chaotic, purposeless outcome of cosmic eruptions? the brainstorm creations within an Idiotic mind?

Throughout history the profoundest intellectual and philosophical minds have acknowledged that life must have its origins in an Intelligent Mind. Call this mind or being what you will. Out of an origin of creative impulse energy has poured forth, devised systems and structures most conveniently adaptable to the environment necessary for growth, self maintenance and re-creation of the original impulse.

It is not unreasonable to believe that beacause there is a pattern to life as a whole man therefore thinks in terms of patterns, and seeks the laws of Nature which will disclose, peice by piece, this whole pattern, and within the whole, the infinite descending scales of patterns within patterns, each in essence the replica of the whole. Life, with all its complex features and contradictions, is either the unfolding of an intelligently-conncieved purpose, to be pre-ordained pattern of growth, or it is not. There can be no compromise between what is and what is not. There are countless ways of seeking evidence of distinct patterns within the world of nature and the growth-functions of man. Astrology is one such path of investigation and interpretation.

Astrology is a system of interpreting symbols correlated to human behaviour and activities.

The symbols which from the basic structure of astrological theory are the Sun, Moon, major planets of the Solar System, and the Earth Sphere as a focal point of reference. These are symbols derived from the cosmic space-time energy system. In other words, specific geometrical angles and points of mutual contact formed by the planets as they orbit the Sun present continuosly changing patterns which, depicted by the symbolical figures in the astrological birth-chart for any given moment of time, correspond to unique patterns of Potential behaviour in a man/women.

The present day trained astrologer does not think in terms of light-rays or influences comes direct from each planet in the way heat rays from the Sun on a summer's afternoon stimulate the physical sensation of warmth and a feeling of well-being. The essential correspondence is one of space-time Synchronization. The chart of an individual is cast for the moment of birth. This moment is considered to be the first intake of breath after severance of the umbilical cord. In this moment is rooted the whole theory of Astrology. At birth the existing pattern of angular-relationships between Sun, planets, and the Earth-angle of the birthplace, synchronize with the total psychological pattern of potentialities. It is the time and the locality of birth which determine the individual nature, distinct from the thousands of other infants born on the same day but at different times and in different localities.

In Life nothing stands still: all that is must change. the generation, the flow, the exhaustion of energy is subject to rythmns, cycles of activity and inactivity. Throughout Nature one recognizes dualities. There is a continuous reconstruction of experience: ebbing and flowing, waking and sleeping, growth and decay, birth and death. the dual and complementary aspects create the necessary balance and continuity of life: male and female, positive and negative, night and day, and so on. Through the birth-chart one can discern the Rhythmic, cyclic processes in the development of the individual life-pattern, corresponding to the planetary cycles. It must be understood that the chart calaculated for a moment of birth describes the Potentialities of an individual life. It doesn not represent a "static quantity". By further calculations which "project", as it were, the natal chart "into the future", the opportunities for unfoldment of these potentialities can be traced: trends in the development of the life-pattern, likely periods of expansion, frustation, ill health,misfortune, good favour, and every aspects of the individuals adjustment to the broader collective patterns of life with his fellows.

For the planets to represent symbols for man in his attempt to relate the details of his whole being to an all embracing Cosmic pattern is probably crude, clumsy, like a child groping for articulate self-expression with its primitive oral sounds. Yet what of other symbols evolved of necessity by man? the symbols of language, the alphabet. Professor Richard Wilson in The Miraculous Birth of Language traces the eventual conversion of oral sound-symbols of time into corresponding form-symbols (alphabet written words) of space. Yet i cannot regard the birth of language or the Solar System as a miracle or accident. Each has its origins in the time-space equations. Concious striving by man to recognize a pattern to his life symbolised elsewhere in the universe of nature outside himself is an unconcious motivation of his time-space origins.

That was taken from a book a good friend bought me on Astrology somewhat relative to this thread so i thought i would place some of in here for you guys to read.

[DocAzz]

The moon affects water by gravity. It may be that the water in your body is also affected by the moon's gravity. It would be slightly pulled towards the moon, and perhaps this could have physiological effects.

However, because you tend to move around during the day (and at night), the direction you face changes and therefore the effect of the moon's gravity on the water in your body would overall be neutral. I don't think this is the mechanism by which lunacy occurs, if it does.

Gravity doesn't exactly work like that, decent hypothesis tho

Gravity has an effect on everything. When you sit next to someone, there is a gravity pull between you. There is a gravity pull between two objects on your desk... between one object and your desk... between you and your desk! The fact that the earth is so much more massive than any of these objects, it appears that these smallers forces of gravity are zero, but they aren't. They're just smaller, by a magnitude of billions of billions. Remember, we don't just fall to the earth, it also falls to us!

The moon however is not insignificantly smaller than the earth. Smaller yes, but now it makes a visible difference.

On a side note, it is times like these when I believe there is a creator of some sort. I have great diffuculty looking at the grand scope of the universe, and putting all of it down to chance (the big bang).

As all objects have a natural attraction to each other, this means the moon has a gravitational pull on us, and we with it. This effect is strongest when the moon is closest to us. It doesn't just effect the water in our body, it effects every part.

What it actually does to us is near impossible to tell, or to test, but I know it does send alot people out of their tree! My girl also works in a nursing home, and all the oldies go wild on full moons. They have the full moons marked on their calender so they are prepared for it!

It seems my electives of astronomy and physics at uni are finally being put to some use!

[occidentalis]

As all objects have a natural attraction to each other, this means the moon has a gravitational pull on us, and we with it. This effect is strongest when the moon is closest to us. It doesn't just effect the water in our body, it effects every part.

Sure

but my theory still stands - whether it's pulling on the water or on every element of your body, as long as you move around during the day, it will have a net neutral effect on you from a gravitational perspective.

I think it's possible that the moon and other planets can or do have an effect on us, but I don't think the mechanism of that effect is gravity.

[Hagakure]

i have been quite confused about the link between gravity and the full moon.

after all a full moon is to do with the light it is reflecting from the sun, not how close it is to earth.

this website here clears it up though. when the moon is either a full moon or a new moon, the sun, the earth, and the moon are all along one line

"When the sun and moon are aligned, there are exceptionally strong gravitational forces, causing very high and very low tides which are called spring tides, though they have nothing to do with the season. When the sun and moon are not aligned, the gravitational forces cancel each other out, and the tides are not as dramatically high and low. These are called neap tides."

http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/

do people act crazy around new moons? strong gravitational pull

perhaps the body can sense the difference between a full moon and new moon and natural selectiioin has favoured those who are more alert around the full moon.

after all, if you had two groups, one was anxious round full moon, other wasnt, you put them both out in a forest full of predators, in what direction would natural selection go i wonder?

[botanika]

Not just gravity but also inertia. I see it not so much as the moon 'affecting us' but more the moon and the earth have a relationship with each other - like a brother and sister. The moon was supposedly formed when a planetoid, roughly the size of mars, smashed into earth billions of years ago flinging out fragments that eventually densified into the moon or were attracted back to continue forming the earth. It would be hard to test the complete, specific or isolated 'influence' the moon has on life because life has always evolved under that influence, even if it has changed over time (ie the moon is slowly drifting away from the earth in its oribit). Unless you perform experiments on another planet without a moon or in some sort of anti-gravity/inertia and anti moonlight chamber, Im not sure what scientists can use as a comparison for their results. Its hard to say anything in the universe doesn't have an influence on us because we all come from the essence of the universe. I personally feel a marked excited influence around full moons. Whether its something that is genetically, mythically or culturally impressed or a result of gravity - its still all an influence of the moon somewhere down the chain.

It still amazes me how we seem to be suspended in these perfect orbits, never gravitating too much towards a collision or any of that. Just sitting ehre prime for living and creating...

Yeah - makes you realise how much of life is just about being in the 'right place, right time'. For us to be here at all, it seems the solar system had to go through billions of years of complete instability, chaos and violent planet building. At one stage the whole milky way was just a blob of radiant energy forming matter in the expanding big bang afterglow... now its a shoal of diamonds dancing across the nightsky with us gazing soulfully into its angelic destiny. And we're worrying about whats on TV and the cost of petrol!

Everything is connected.

Edited September 29, 2006 by botanika

[Greeny]

I really dont think that gravity would play much of a role unless it had some sort of effect on the magnetic feild we generate around ourselves.

I more hypothesise that coming from a more primitive role in the wild the increased amount of light would trigger a sort of half sleep. Or hightened awareness in humans as noctuernal predators have a huge advantage. But we ourselves may also try to capitolise on that being the moonlight would enable us to hunt animals which might in any other time know we were coming from a long way away.

Think about it this way. Your living like anybody else pre society. Small tribes of humans roam the land but none have any specificly large numbers or amount of power. All humans are basically out for survival maybe even reproduction if given the chance. The full moon hits. Your mind refuses to switch off into a deep mode of sleep due to the hightened risk of falling victim to a night time predator. We did live in a world of huge prey and small humans. As humans have gotten bigger most animals have gotten smaller. Back in the times of sabre tooth tigers and so on we would've been at a constant state of awareness. A sort of shellshock.

I believe from personal experience if the body requires food water ect to remain functioning the concious mind is blanked out and the subconcious alter ego's the primal tools of life are brought out to play. eg not out to be a murderer but not preparred to let anyone stop you from completing set task.

It is my theory that anybody on the edge of survival, not sleeping, not eating much or anything, constantly busy and or highly stressed will revert to the primal human mode. Psychosis...... The unconcious takes over you become erratic, aggressive, determind, paranoid and very confused. This is your concious mind being rejected. I have seen this example in feral cats after the means for survival are provided then the cat begins to develop a personality. In the wild a feral cat is just that a feral cat. In Australia TO BE SHOOT!

Anyway I think it less of the moons gravitational pull more of the increased light during a sleep cycle.

[occidentalis]

Anyway I think it less of the moons gravitational pull more of the increased light during a sleep cycle.

I'd agree that this is a potential mechanism. But it would not be effective in urban dwellers who are exposed to bright lights at night all the time.

[botanika]

I have a book somewhere at home that goes through some of the moon and seasons effect on business, politics and war planning. I'll have to try and find it, it might shed some light on this topic. I have to admit I haven't even done a google search on the moons effects yet!

As I mentioned in my post above, scientists say the moon is slowly moving away from earth in its orbit. I wonder if the magnetic pull was much stronger in our past? Coupled with ancient times reliance or focus on natural night-light, the moon could also have an impact simply in terms of habit. I.e. ancient people may have utilized the brighter light for hunting, rituals etc and that behavioural pattern has been impressed into us irrelevent of any direct physical effect. If other animals or plants are affected by the moon cycles, they could in turn also influence our behavioural patterns to a degree.

[DocAzz]

Sure

but my theory still stands - whether it's pulling on the water or on every element of your body, as long as you move around during the day, it will have a net neutral effect on you from a gravitational perspective.

I think it's possible that the moon and other planets can or do have an effect on us, but I don't think the mechanism of that effect is gravity.

You can't say it has a net neutral effect, as it is pulling you "up" towards it, and its not like you are moving "down" away from it. Besides, what if you only move in the one direction?

I think the only measurable mechanism which can have an effect on us is gravity, but thats only for the moon. The other planets are too far away. The sun on the other hand - well it emits energy, everything else just reflects (which is how we can see them).

[occidentalis]

You can't say it has a net neutral effect, as it is pulling you "up" towards it, and its not like you are moving "down" away from it. Besides, what if you only move in the one direction?

The moon orbits the earth, so it's pulling you down as much as it's pulling up, and east as much as west.

And yes, there will be a small number of people that only move in one direction, and most people will probably move or face one direction more than the others by chance. But we are talking about a population-wide effect. On average over the whole population I think you would find on any particular day there is a net-neutral directionality in the way people face and move. Would be a very interesting study to do .

However as clarified by Hagakure tidal movements at the full moon are especially great because of the linear alignment of the sun and the moon. So if gravity is to blame for lunacy, it's not just the moon but the sun also that's causing it.

Edited October 2, 2006 by creach

[DocAzz]

Not just gravity but also inertia. I see it not so much as the moon 'affecting us' but more the moon and the earth have a relationship with each other - like a brother and sister. The moon was supposedly formed when a planetoid, roughly the size of mars, smashed into earth billions of years ago flinging out fragments that eventually densified into the moon or were attracted back to continue forming the earth. It would be hard to test the complete, specific or isolated 'influence' the moon has on life because life has always evolved under that influence, even if it has changed over time (ie the moon is slowly drifting away from the earth in its oribit). Unless you perform experiments on another planet without a moon or in some sort of anti-gravity/inertia and anti moonlight chamber, Im not sure what scientists can use as a comparison for their results. Its hard to say anything in the universe doesn't have an influence on us because we all come from the essence of the universe. I personally feel a marked excited influence around full moons. Whether its something that is genetically, mythically or culturally impressed or a result of gravity - its still all an influence of the moon somewhere down the chain.

It still amazes me how we seem to be suspended in these perfect orbits, never gravitating too much towards a collision or any of that. Just sitting ehre prime for living and creating...

Yeah - makes you realise how much of life is just about being in the 'right place, right time'. For us to be here at all, it seems the solar system had to go through billions of years of complete instability, chaos and violent planet building. At one stage the whole milky way was just a blob of radiant energy forming matter in the expanding big bang afterglow... now its a shoal of diamonds dancing across the nightsky with us gazing soulfully into its angelic destiny. And we're worrying about whats on TV and the cost of petrol!

Everything is connected.

I never liked the "moon sprang from a collision" theory... as there is no real moon-sized crater on earth. The only thing that suggests this is that they have found every naturally earth-occuring element on the moon... it's just a pity the ratios are different. Still...

The orbits are pretty close to perfect, but the moon will one day crash into the earth, likewise we will crash into the sun... if it doesn't supernova before that. 'Orbit' is really a scientific way to say 'falling very very slowly, and in a circle' as we get closer every year.

Life on earth is very much a 'right place, right time' scenario. This is one thing that gives me difficulty believing in the Big Bang Theory. Keep in mind that society's current model of the big bang theory dates from the 70s, and the current astrophysics model needs a PhD in Astrophysics to understand. I had my friend, who is actually a rocket scientist, try to explain this to me. And yes, it IS still a theory.... just like Darwin's THEORY of Evolution. Do not take them as fact, they are merely the most generally accepted hypotheses.

[DocAzz]

The moon orbits the earth, so it's pulling you down as much as it's pulling up, and east as much as west.

And yes, there will be a small number of people that only move in one direction, and most people will probably move or face one direction more than the others by chance. But we are talking about a population-wide effect. On average over the whole population I think you would find on any particular day there is a net-neutral directionality in the way people face and move. Would be a very interesting study to do .

However as clarified by Hagakure tidal movements at the full moon are especially great because of the linear alignment of the sun and the moon. So if gravity is to blame for lunacy, it's not just the moon but the sun also that's causing it.

You can't think of it as an overall effect of 24hours. Gravity doesn't work that way.

This will be hard to explain without drawing a diagram, so please don't insult me too much if this goes wrong

Think of an X-Y graph. A single plane. That is what we move around on. forward-back, and left-right and every combination of each. The moon is on the Z-axis, and pulls us in this direction. Moving around on the X-Y axes has zero effect on the Z. Thus there is no neutral net effect, only a constant pull from the Z, at any given moment in time.

[DocAzz]

I'd agree that this is a potential mechanism. But it would not be effective in urban dwellers who are exposed to bright lights at night all the time.

So that must rule it out as a possible mechanism, as it still affects the urban dwellers.

I must say that viewing the night sky away from the city is always fantastic. A foafs low-dose of HBWR seeds onver the weekend found it just increased the sheer beauty of nature and the universe.... laying on the beach at night, and gazing up at the stars left him awestruck. Does anyone know about Phosphorescence of sand at night time, just after a wave has rolled onto the shore? That left him completely amazed too.

[occidentalis]

The orbits are pretty close to perfect, but the moon will one day crash into the earth, likewise we will crash into the sun... if it doesn't supernova before that. 'Orbit' is really a scientific way to say 'falling very very slowly, and in a circle' as we get closer every year.

My understanding is that the moon is falling away from the earth - and one day it will escape the earth's gravity and go floating off into space. Although I can't actually find any references for this.... here's one. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/top_...on_facts-1.html

You can't think of it as an overall effect of 24hours. Gravity doesn't work that way.

I know gravity isn't cumulative , but we are talking about the possibility of the moon somehow having an effect on the functioning of the brain. I was assuming that this effect would be cumulative over time - which is an assumption, but I think a fairly reasonable (and mostly untestable) one. Therefore, you do need to consider the whole 24 hour period of the full moon.

Think of an X-Y graph. A single plane. That is what we move around on. forward-back, and left-right and every combination of each. The moon is on the Z-axis, and pulls us in this direction. Moving around on the X-Y axes has zero effect on the Z. Thus there is no neutral net effect, only a constant pull from the Z, at any given moment in time.

Ok, I think I'm correctly visualising your description - and I'm not sure it's 100% applicable - but I'll run with it for now. The moon orbits the earth, and the earth rotates, giving the overall apparent movement of the moon from east to west in the sky. We are calling the surface of the earth the x-y plane, right? And we are moving around on this plane. The moon is moving 'up and down' in the z axis. Depending on the location of the moon on the z axis, and on our locations on the x and y axes, there will be differences in the direction, distance, and angle between each person and the moon. Each person can turn around and face away from the moon (particularly if it's low on the z axis) and the effect of the moon's gravity on that person will be changed.

Now, for my objection to your model - the moon does move in the z axis (because it moves up and down relative to us) but it also moves in the x-y plane - otherwise it couldn't go across the sky. If the surface of the earth is the x-y plane, then east - west must be either the x or the y axis. Or am I just misunderstanding?

So that must rule it out as a possible mechanism, as it still affects the urban dwellers.

But does it? We have been discussing this gravity thing for too long without any real statistical evidence that lunacy even exists. Full moons happen fairly regularly - it should be fairly easy for someone with hospital records and a bit of stats know-how to figure it out.

[DocAzz]

My understanding is that the moon is falling away from the earth - and one day it will escape the earth's gravity and go floating off into space. Although I can't actually find any references for this.... here's one. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/top_...on_facts-1.html

hmmm... I must have been mistaken! Its funny how you can hear something off-hand like that, and it sticks. Regardless, this is how they design sattelites, to very slowly fall to earth, albeit with a rather violent ending

With that said, it still makes sense to my logic that we're moving closer. I shall endeavour to check this.

I know gravity isn't cumulative , but we are talking about the possibility of the moon somehow having an effect on the functioning of the brain. I was assuming that this effect would be cumulative over time - which is an assumption, but I think a fairly reasonable (and mostly untestable) one. Therefore, you do need to consider the whole 24 hour period of the full moon.

fair call, I just don't think it is a safe assumption. Would it not be more of an on/off effect? Consider the fact that the moon's 'pull' is negated (to us) when it is on the other side of the earth. Perhaps the effects build up, and drop off in a sine wave-type pattern? Who knows...

Ok, I think I'm correctly visualising your description - and I'm not sure it's 100% applicable - but I'll run with it for now.

I reread my description, and it sucks

so lets completely redo it.... the key here, and this goes with all gravitational forces, is magnitude. In the case we're discussing here I am talking about Distance. Essentially, we are insignificant in the distance we can travel in a day to make a real diffence.

The moon is, on average, 384401km from earth. Apogee being 406700km, and perigee being 356400km.

Let us use the average value for this example, and we will say that hypothetically, you travel a large distance to work everyday... say.... 400km. Even if you moved in exactly a straight line away from the moon, the distance you have travelled has only just changed the total distance by 0.1%. Not a great deal. Now consider the fact that the moon, your start point, and your end point form a triangle. Do you remember your trig lessons in maths? This rips the change in distance between you and the moon even lower. The only thing that makes a significant difference in the distance is the movement of the moon, and the rotation of the earth. Your own movement, by magnitude, is insignificant.

Is that all good?

 

We have been discussing this gravity thing for too long without any real statistical evidence that lunacy even exists. Full moons happen fairly regularly - it should be fairly easy for someone with hospital records and a bit of stats know-how to figure it out.

Too right! I failed stats the first time around, so count me out!

[occidentalis]

The only thing that makes a significant difference in the distance is the movement of the moon, and the rotation of the earth. Your own movement, by magnitude, is insignificant.

Right

That's fine because under my theory, your movement isn't important - just the direction you face.

The moon spends a relatively small amount of time directly above or below you compared to how long it spends to one side of you. So as long as you keep turning in different directions throughout the day, the moon will be on different sides of you and hence pulling you in different relative directions by gravity.

[Hagakure]

say we have a high power magnet pulling at a metal object stuck on your head

okay as you move around the object is going to be pulled in different directions depending on where you are compared to the magnet. but you are still going to feel a pulling.

if there was some pressure difference due to gravitational differences at a full moon that our brain could feel, it wouldnt need to feel it in a specific direction.

walking around wouldnt matter in my model

edit: okay re read some previous posts and im off on another track here i think. i will leave it for now as every word i type is time spent procrastinating somethign else.

anyone know what eastern countries think of full moons?

is lunacy a western concept?

Edited October 2, 2006 by Hagakure

[nabraxas]

2 quotes from an album SWIM heard while on shrooms & mdma. he said they seemed very profound at the time....& they seem to fit this discussion so,

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the

most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even

if you're not mad..."

All that you touch

All that you see

All that you taste

All you feel

All that you love

All that you hate

All you distrust

All you save

All that you give

All that you deal

All that you buy beg, borrow or steal

All you create

All you destroy

All that you do

All that you say

All that you eat

Everyone you meet

All that you slight

Everyone you fight

All that is now

All that is gone

All that's to come

And everything under the sun is in tune

But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

[Greeny]

Wow I never thought I could've sparked such a heated debate but it is apparent we have a lot of highly educated people using what they know to justify lunacy. Perhaps this is an all of the above scenario. It would be naive to think that this could revolve around one factor and therefore be a straight forward equation.

All the debate has sparked another hypothesis of mine. Perhaps the earth’s magnetic field becomes altered when the moon travels past certain sections. This would imply that lunacy happens on the occasional full moon and that studies taking into account all full moons would be inaccurate. The moon has many phases I.e. blue moons. If the earth’s magnetic field had been altered an increased or decreased amount of cosmic radiation would be allowed to enter. This may have some effect on our brain function.

If anybody has any data on peoples reactions and actions in increased radiation as opposed to normal levels this may explain some of what we call Lunacy. I have never heard of radiation variances within our environment unless exposed to radioactive material but has this been studied?

P.S. Nabraxas That was an awesome little poem you wrote was that your work?