The Vedas

[apothecary]

I would like to read them.

Please don't make me learn Sanskrit or Hindi.

If you have an English translation of all four books (yes I know penguin publishes Rig Veda) please post the title/ISBN/whatever so I can go buy it too :D

[apothecary]

Found it.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm

Might learn Hindi anyway lol.

[_e_]

I read the Aldous Huxley edition of the Bhagvad Gita (sp?) whilst i was in india. It has an interesting commentary by Timothy Leary, but i found the actual prose to be a bit 'lost in translation'.

I imagine it would be impressive when the stories were told in a masters voice, but i really couldnt get my head around it as written text.

Some of the hoy-palloy bookshops in the huge western shopping centres in Mumbai were insanely cheap. I could have picked up a giant all in one english translation of the Upanishads , complete with colour plates and in hardback, for close to AU $25. But the postage was out of the question.

[coin]

most of the vedas, except the fourth (last) veda - artharva veda, are just a massive collection of hymns...for sacrifice, holy fire ceremonies, and soma preparation, etc

a translation of these is not any form of enjoyable reading, for most people...they are like a very long list -- like:

from shiva came water, from shiva came fire, from shiva came xxx ... and on & on for hours...very repetitive. some list 1000 or so "names of god" for example - praise to xxx, praise to xxxx....

if you enjoy listening to chant, then it's much better just listening to the rhythm and tone of the vedas, especially samaveda. some people believe in the therapeutic effects of chant - either listening or intoning.

the artharva veda compiles a few texts from the era with more varied topics like spells, ritual instructions, herbs, and other esoteric stuff

not to put you off or anything, but most people would say that for the most part, the vedas are not essential for philosophical study, and they're not much of an interesting read either (there are later texts that act as commentaries with philosophical interpretation)

the study of Vedanta is based on the brahma sutra, the upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita (the latter is a part of the epic Mahabharata)

it's best to find commentaries than straight translations.

the gita is a good place to start

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita

I've always looked to Paramahansa Yogananda's version of the Gita, but it's fairly esoteric and interprets the original text as a treatise on kriya yoga.

I've been thinking of buying this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-Walkth...0896830?ie=UTF8

The AC Prabhupada version is very easily available (in all the Hare Krishna places) -- not sure what it's like .. I assume it will have an interpretation based on bhakti yoga

Edited September 19, 2006 by coin

[Slim Pickens]

I have a good version of the Bhagavad Gita somewhere, I will try and locate and let you know what/who the ISBN, publisher and/or translator is.

[apothecary]

Am already in posession of the Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita.

I'm not in it for a well rounded philosophical education coin , my thirst is for pure knowledge...you know...if it has words, I want to read it hehe

[coin]

well that's what i meant -- there's not a lot of practical knowledge there to be found by the average person really...just hymns and esoteric instructions for ancient rituals -- and a lot of vibration, which some would say is one of the most important aspects -- but unless you can read sanskrit, you'll have to just listen and recite from memory, or read from a transliteration....what were you hoping to get out of it? the later texts (post vedas) have more tangible teachings on cosmology, etc.. the gita has enough to contemplate for a lifetime or more. the upanishads contain the main essence of the vedic knowledge

i have recordings of traditional chanting styles of the vedas if you'd like to hear some...the method for preservation of the authenticity of the vedas throughout the oral tradition is quite fascinating and sounds quite hypnotic. they involve different patterns of chanting passages backwards and fowards, weaving & braiding the words together, all the time applying 'sandhi' - the modification of adjacent words to maintain fluidity of articulation. there are probably less than 50 scholars alive now who have attained the highest levels of vedic recitation. it requires an exceptional memory obviously, and a life time of dedication.

i'm studying ayurveda for example, but even as a student, it's of very little use for me to study the atharva veda even though it has the most references to medicinal knowledge compared to the earlier vedas (even rig veda has a handful of vague references to herbs and therapeutic practises)...it's really just too obscure for most who are not scholars of either language or specific philosophies.

Edited September 19, 2006 by coin

[apothecary]

I dunno man, I have some pretty obscure stuff on my bookshelf...lets just say I'm a student of any book ever written

[coin]

cool, go for it then - maybe it'll make a hell of a lot more sense to you than myself .... do let us know what you find insightful ... i'm a student of vedanta, definitely a neophyte and probably will be for another 10 years of part-time study, but as far as I'm concerned, regarding trying to read the vedas - for the most part, i'd probably get more out of the new testament of the christian bible.

i have some rules for personal book buying -- nothing impractical .. what is the use of having obscure, esoteric texts on your bookshelf if they don't pertain to your current level of understanding and personal development? i will never buy books for their aesthetic value or obscurity factor alone...but that's just a personal (and financial) stance. i know a lot of people take pride in their (spiritual) book collections as some respository of (largely unread or assimilated) knowledge, but it has nothing more than ornamental value really. that sort of hoarding/attachment/pride really goes against every aphorism proffered by such texts

have you read that sacred-texts link you posted? what is to study there?! most english translations are similar -- by scholars past, from the 1800's in an old romantic english style....and who knows if they had the philosophical background necessary to do accurate translations. the original vedas are written in very specific poetic meters -- an art to be appreciated in itself... here we have texts that have a vibrational power, brilliant poetic value, and spiritual insight, but most of that is lost in translation.

if you enjoy that style of writing or its historical value, then i can understand how you might be interested in those translations .... but modern, lucid and authentic translations are rare, and like i said -- if you find something valuable - please do let me know

it's just not something you can study without a whole heap of background work, i guess is what i'm saying.

personally, i get the most out of listening to vedic chanting. every now and then a particular mantra or passage (shloka) will stick in my mind, then i get curious about its meaning and will look into it further..

i have read some translations of the dhammapada, for example, and they just plain get it wrong..the sentiment is nice, possibly inspiring, but they are philosophically inaccurate

but from your viewpoint, why even bother with a translation? ;) just buy some cheap books written in devanagari -- they'll make just as much sense (if not more) and look just as good on the shelf (joke)

if you did decide to learn sanskrit -- there is a big difference between classical sanskrit and vedic sanskrit...generally you'd learn classical sanskrit first altho you can certainly study oral recitation of the vedas simultaneously. after several years of study you could probably interpret the bhagavad gita (classical) if you had a sanskrit dictionary and various declension tables. quicker than learning chinese i think

anyway, i hope all this just encourages you ;) i won't bring anymore dissuasion

i'll see what books are available around these parts (they're very big and very expensive generally)

[apothecary]

Yeah I quickly realised that these books were going to need to be read in Sanskrit, so that's where I'm starting (i.e. Devanagari -> Hindi -> Sanskrit).

I am honestly not after any amazing philosophical insight, nor is my book collection something I treat as a trophy case.

However, my rule is something like (not hard and fast I guess), if you come across a reference or quote in something you are currently reading, then the source of that reference needs to be studied. This is the rule that guided my path across Voltaire, the Satanic Bible, Goethe, Sophocles, and so on...the path just happens to be pointed at the Vedas right now

[coin]

i'll check the theosophical society bookstore tomorrow

there's no major advantage to learning hindi before sanskrit...sanskrit is relatively approachable for beginners now that there are a few good texts and resources

i spose you'll want to study Pali once you're down with the sanskrit