Salvia Splendens

[RubyTuesday]

Have any of you guys tried chewing Salvia Splendens leaves? Twee and I tried it a couple of months ago and agreed it had a calming effect. Last night I had some in desperation ~ I get panic attacks and pretty bad anxiety ~ and it definitely helped. It really seemed to reduce the adreneline rushes that I get when I'm having an anxiety attack, and made me sort of stoic and immune to neurotic thoughts. I even went to sleep reasonably easily. I don't think it was placebo because I'm pretty hard to calm down when I'm like that, and I've tried all sorts of stuff before. I've tried SS once before when I was 'freaking out' and it helped then too.

Anyhoo, just wondering if anyone else is a Splendens fan or knows of any research that's been done on it. I've read one 'trip report' on Erowid or something, but that's about it.

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http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[Guest electro]

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[This message has been edited by electro (edited 13 October 2002).]

[RubyTuesday]

I haven't tried Salvia Divinorum. I'm not sure what you mean... Did they find anything conclusive about the calming effect?

...I just did a web search and found this: http://www.sagewisdom.org/splendens.html and it's really interesting, it says,

"Kevin Brunelle and Claude Rifat, posted reports to the list stating that their self-experiments with S. splendens showed that this herb produces psychoactive effects when the leaves are smoked or chewed to allow for sublingual absorption. They described it as producing pronounced relaxation and a sense of detachment and claimed that the effects could be obtained using just a few leaves."

"Detachment" is exactly what I meant by "stoic"

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http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 10 August 2002).]

[Guest reville]

Not yet. There are snail problems.

Are you aware of the research by the late Claude rifat? I saw something about this mentioned in his obituary in the news forum.

Its a pity we often only hear about peoples accomplishments after they are gone.

[RubyTuesday]

Hah, I was just reading/posting about that

P.S. What do you mean by 'snail' problems?

[This message has been edited by RubyTuesday (edited 10 August 2002).]

[Torsten]

Claude told me about his splendens experiments, which prompted me to try it as well. He did not tell me what his results were, but just said to try it sublingually and report back to him. All I told him was that after chewing 2 leaves and keeping them in my mouth, I couldn't stop smiling for half an hour. I'd had a rottne day and smiling wa the last thing I expected. It wore off after half an hour without any sideeffect. He then told me about his experiences.

I proceeded to experiment with different splendens strains and found some (like the Sizzler series) to be entirely inactive. The bonfire is the one I grew and supplied to european ethnobot retailers - it was popular there.

In australia I made a mix with divinorum as splendens enhanced the effects, especially for 'hard heads'. My experience with plain salvia herb (ie non fortified) had shown me early that you need to be very relaxed so that the salvia can take over. For some people this could easily be achieved with a small amount of alcohol, a small amount of cannabis, or with splendens (either as mix or as predose). Splendens did not affect the divinorum trip like alcohol of cannabis does and appeared to make the experience more relaxed.

I believe that splendens is definitely anxiolytic. I have no idea what mechanism it might use to achieve that, but it is pleasant and without sideffects. No idea if it works more than once a day.

I am glad that Claude is being recognised for his work. Those who knew him knew just how brilliant he was, but his humble character meant that he never seeked the limelight.

[Guest electro]

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[This message has been edited by electro (edited 13 October 2002).]

[Guest Mesqualero]

My Tafe has a large garden bed with predominantly Salvia splendens 'Blaze of Fire' can this be used for above mentioned purposes?

[RubyTuesday]

Mesqualero, yep. I ususally take about 5 leaves, roll them up and chew them a bit, then stick the wad under my tongue or in my cheek. Then keep chewing every so often and stick it back under your tongue. It tastes pretty bad, but the more bitter it is, the better, I've found

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http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[Guest Mesqualero]

Cool, are you Twee's partner?? If so say hi to Twee for me I used to talk to him on the chilli sauce and havent for a long time

I will try find out what kind of pesticides they are using first so i don't poison myself..

[RubyTuesday]

I am the wife

[waterdragon]

wasn't aware that the chewing would be an issue, must try that when mine regenerates. the smoke works for me quite well, just a mix of flowers and leaf. doesn't work on everyone though.

[RubyTuesday]

Waterdragon, I think of it like that Nicorette chewing gum which you are meant to 'chew and park' (or as Twee says, 'munch and stash') Yeah, I've smoked SS before and didn't get as good an effect.

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http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[Torsten]

and before anyone contemplates extracts.... I did an acetone extract and it did nothing (neither smoked nor sublingually -yuk). maybe different solvent should be used. a simple tea might do the trick.

[Fractalhead]

Do you think it is the Salviarin that does the trick? What if i can get a decent sized verified sample of salviarin? Perhaps then we can conduct a thoroughly controlled study, and see what happens at high doses... I'm seriously interested in researching this mysterious (likely to be) 'family' of drugs.

[This message has been edited by Fractalhead (edited 12 August 2002).]

[RubyTuesday]

I'm not really experienced with extractions and whatnot, but if you guys came up with something I would be seriously interested And yeah I would love to see more research into it because I think this plant has real potential.

It's strange how things 'come together'. Like I hadn't heard of that Claude Rifat guy until I read Torsten's post last week about his death... Then on Friday night I had the Splendens and it turns out that one of the main researchers was none other than Claude Rifat

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http://www.angelfire.com/apes/liberty

[Auxin]

"I did an acetone extract and it did nothing."- Torsten

Acetone is probably not quite polar enough, and it is one of the more reactive solvents. Try methanol or 95% ethanol, heck I might try it for you if I ever get around to it (plant diagnostic reagents and biostimulants takes up most of my time, so it could take a while.) If you have the equiptment you could also try making a vodka extract and distiling the vodka off under HARD vaccum. Under a HARD vaccum the boilin' point of water is low enough that the product probably would not decompose (your on your own for this one, I dont have a vaccum pump.)

[Torsten]

yeah, I was thinking about the non-polarity being a problem. But at the time I was just doing what I used to do with salvi div. And acetone is so easy to work with. The active constituent is unlikely to be very temp sensitive cos pyrolysing leaf gave similar effects (compare div). So I am sure it is a polarity thing. I still have the original plants (6 years old now) and many of their clones, so I can try again sometime in the future. methanol or even wet methanol would be my next choice.

[Guest Thelema]

I HAVE DONE 4 EXPERIMENTS WITH SPLENDENS

1)30 leaves sublingual for half an hour. mild visuals in a dark room, but not confidently enough to be seperated from loop-back noise.

2)50 leaf acetone extract, 10X. smoked. no effect.

3)ALCHEMIST prepared a standardized extract fro me with a verified amount of 8mg splendidin in a 10x resin. Spot-smoked. No effect.

BUT

4)the first time i tried splendens, i microwaved freshly cut baby leaves and smoked them. definite, quite pleasant effect.

so i suggest using the leaves fresh, microwave drying them and probably most importantly using baby leaves.

[WarpedAstro]

Ruby,

I have noticed that lately you have been researching/inquirying on few anti-anxiety stuff like, Sam-E, 5-HPT, Saliva Splendens, L-Troptophan, please remember I am not having a go againist you, but don't you think you should look at your own personal issues, and find out what's really causing your anxiety/panic problems?? rather than depending on herbs and tablets to temporay fix your problems, I mean the chinese herbist/doctors, they don't find a cure, they ask you tonnes of questions to find the cause of your problems, and they often give advice to their clients to change the lifestyle, habits, and few other things, they think preventing problems is easier and better than curing problems, and I have to agree with their ideas 100%.

I find that exercise, even simple relaxing walks for over average a hour a day, like 30mins in the morning and 30 mins in the arvo or evening really does wonders, I mean few years ago I used to get mild paranoid panic attacks from smoking too much cannabis heavily, I just stopped for while, and started doing simple exercise/walks/getting out of the house more often, and rather driving to short distances in my car, I walk or catch the train/bus, so I get some mild excercises, and after sticking to the plan for couple of weeks, I noticed a huge changes to my mind, I felt a lot clearer, thinked better, and felt a lot better, and it all costed me nothing, and I didn't even spend a single dollar toward these so called wonder herbs and tablets, the only tablets I buy is gingeng, kava forte and Multi-vitmans, and exercise, and plenty of parsely, seafood, meats and veggies, and I no longer get these anxiety/panic thoughts, I think it's all about lifestyle changes rather being depending on herbal stores that you are just making them richer.....

I think buying these 5-HPT, etc...is waste of money......but everyone has their own opinions, as last week a friend gave me a 5-HPT tablet when I was coming down from a HUGE night out, all 5-HPT made me is feeling even more groggier, ringing ears (even I am deaf), and weird type of dizziness, next time I will just stick to plenty of water with heaps squeezes of lemon.....as there's plenty of Vitman C in the lemons to get rid of the toxins after inhaling secondary ciggie smoke all night....

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by Auxin:

"I did an acetone extract and it did nothing."- Torsten

Acetone is probably not quite polar enough, and it is one of the more reactive solvents. Try methanol or 95% ethanol, )

Oh yeah. Ill collect some and take it to herbmajik and the other proffessional herbalists i know.

Fractal says that the flowers are stronger. Anyone confirm that?

The ocal city farmers has abed about 12m long chockas with splendens in flower.

i think its a corporat ething as othe CF's ive seen have the same planting this year so all perth residents shoou;d pop down adn offer the management a few bucks i they can harvest the flowers for "aromatherapy" or some bullshit excuse (do it witha straight face).Say its 'really important' meanwhile you can buy some punnets to improe youre case.

These guys also sell excellent straw fo your garden

[Guest reville]

actually.....

dont offer cash.. in the public realm his can be problematic

offer beer or similar "peoples currency"

[Torsten]

Originally posted by WarpedAstro:

the only tablets I buy is gingeng, kava forte and Multi-vitmans

I don't understand why you think this is any different to any other supplement. 5HTP simply counteracts any possible tryptophan deficiency, just like you take a multivitamin for any possible vitamin deficiency. Just so happens 5HTP is a lot more expensive. And trying splendens is no different to taking kava.

Sure, lifestyle changes are essential for long term management of the problem, but many of us cannot afford them financially or socially. Excercise does nothing to alleviate serotonin based depression. It acts on the dopamine system. True, as most depressions are a combination of the two, there is plenty of benefit in excercise, but this is an individual thing and may not apply to Ruby.

There are plenty of people who get immediate relief from 5HTP or trytophan. This doesn't have to be in a pill either. Daniel and I maintain our serotonin levels by certain additons to the diet, especially lareb amounts of salmon. Definitely doesn't come any cheaper than tryptophan that way, but at least we're not supporting the pharma industry

Ruby - look at our life, your work, your relationships and see if there are problems. The see if it is possible to fix them. Identifying them is the first step. For example, I know I have a problem that is causing me serotonin depletion, but I know I can't fix it just yet. Knowing that I know the problem and that I can change it at some point gives me the control that is almost as powerful as not having the problem in the first place. So change doesn't have to immediate. You just need to know the source of the problem and then keep an eye on it.

A close friend gets perception problems when in anxiety states. Like trippy wavy lines and peripheral crap. Kinda funny stuff when you're coming down, but worrying if you haven't had any drugs for years. This worries him even more and deepens his anxiety states as he feels he has no control. Explaining to him that this is exactly the same stuff we used to get when coming off amphetamines then makes him realise that this is just adrenaline sideeffects and not him going insane. The visuals are still there, but he knows the source and has some control over it eventually. That is usually enough to calm him down. This is just to illustrate that you don't need to fix the problem to be able to dal with it. You can learn to manage it instaed. Funny enough, I've been doing this with people for years and I just found out on the radio a few days ago that this is now the super-duper new way of treating paranoid schizophrenics

ramble ramble....

[WarpedAstro]

I agree with you Torsten, yes I agree with you why when I take vitnams is any difference to others taking something else but it's just I have noticed that some doctors just look at patients, then write something on peiece of paper, and they seen to not even bother asking you to find out whats causing the problems, the doctors are just giving stuff to mask the syptoms but not the problems.

I was only stating my own opinion, I was only telling Ruby maybe looking at things from other side point of view and see what's really causing the problem?, I always respect other's opinions, I thought we live in a supposed so called free country? anyway cheers WA

[Fractalhead]

Rev> Fractal says that the flowers are stronger.

actually, i'd like to confirm this myself since i read someone reporting this on the net somewhere.

Thelema>> 3)ALCHEMIST prepared a standardized extract fro me with a verified amount of 8mg splendidin in a 10x resin. Spot-smoked. No effect.

I'm curious. Did alchemist explain how he verified/standardised the splendidin content?

[This message has been edited by Fractalhead (edited 13 August 2002).]