i can't believe it's not moroccan hashish / opium

[PD.]

 

...

Edited December 19, 2007 by Passive Daemon

[incognito]

exqeeze me..

Edited December 18, 2007 by jono

[dc]

here fucking here, passive has been nothing but a attribute to this community and if the only thing i get out of this community is his friendship then fuck me im one happy "junkie", hes what a true friend is made of. get off your high horse and talk to people with respect rather than trying to make them feel like shit.

[incognito]

heres the problem-the people who smoked it and thought it was real hash have obviously never smoked REAL hash.

u dumb ass!!! lol off course its not freaking hash! it is called 'i cant believe its NOT hash'

i think the prods are fine as long as u smoke them for their own merits.

i think the naming is a double edged sword, good for marketing, but u are always gonna have tools comparing it to hash/opium,

and complaining that its shit. if u take it for what it is without comparison i think they are great.

[nothinghead]

I think Torsten nailed it when he said no one is forcing anyone to buy this product. If anyone is unhappy with the information being divulged about any product the solution is simple: don't buy it. Or, better yet, instead of having a whinge there is always the option of developing your own blend. If you are looking for something with therapeutic value, you should probably start by doing your own research rather than trying to "find" a therapeutic value in what most would assume is a recreational blend.

Herbal Hindsight seems to have a disproportionate grudge and interest in this for such a new member. If you are a new member perhaps it will be news to you that these boards and a lot of the information produced on them would probably not be around if there was not the capital to keep them running. I don't see where the idea that SAB is some kind of non-profit organisation has come from, but the answer of the difference between a big corporation and SAB is in the question. The rest of your drivel you should be able to answer for yourself.

By the way, a little hypocritical that you are upset about being, as you see it, a guinea pig, yet you were happy to try the product the first time without knowing the constituents.

Edited December 18, 2007 by cough

[incognito]

i cant help it, this saying has never been more applicable

'put that in ur pipe and smoke it'

he-haww chortle-chortle

[The Dude]

Wow... I guess the dollar turns even the most openhearted altruistic ethnoheads into backstabbing whininig bitches.

Who gives a fuck!!! - if someone needs to earn a little extra dough. Even if to you it seems like profiteering or unethical. The decision to boycott the product is yours, the decision to whinge and slander the persons ethics is also yours to make. Everyone is trying to survive first and foremost. If I had some intellectual property that I can make a bit of profit on, to get me out of being a slave to the 'system', and can create some sort of self reliance, i'd crank that and definitely keep it a fucking secret. "Ideas are like cars they get stolen everyday"

I'd say there's nothing wrong with SnS Auctions that become WAY overpriced, that's the market talking. Having said that, limited supply DOES influence the end price, and if there were more up for grabs the price would surely go down. Still the decision is there to not buy if the prices are too much (obviously not for some), anyone ever heard of trades? they're awesome!

If I find myself some goldmine I'll milk it for all it's got. Making huge profits by selling to people that are willing to give me huge profits. A product is worth whatever the person is willing to pay. Business/Pleasure must be balanced, and sometimes it is a pleasure to be really generous, The generous often find themselves infested with ticks and leaches, balance is key.

The thing I dislike are the walking cliches of some enlightened planthead being guru to all his peeps via spreading, if not plant knowledge then plant extracts, profiteering and still being treated like some selfless almighty guru. The idea of worshiping anyone is hillarious.

Everybody is trying to figure it out, with different levels of experience/knowledge, but it's a collective effort and we should all learn to take responsibility for influencing the whole... sorry I'm rambling. point is: "kill your idols".

In reply to "i never imagined asking a simple question would blow up like this!"

asking a simple question, criticising a persons ethics in wanting to profit on the product, comparing them to evil corporations. Really who cares what you think? I guess once it's been said, and the text is sitting there in this open domain, there must be some kind of rebutal to your accusations, the fact of the matter is, profit (ie: getting more money than you originally put in) is a mutherfucking fact of life, and like the realisation I had from watching matrix 3, The underground planthead community must harmonise or come into balance with 'the machine' in order to survive. We cannot, as selfless hippies forever deny materialism, it is this matter we are bound to that gives us this opportunity to experience, and we must preserve this material vessel using material means, for the spirit itself to evolve in understanding of itself, that usually means money for survival.

To make any change on this planet, by providing plants or plant knowledge or getting whatever other message heard, you need money. at least in this stage of human evolution.

Maybe the eventual plan is for a socialistic paradise where everybody provides for everybody and there is so much giving that nobody asks to take, it is already offered, i thought about negative and positive feedback loops: selfless giving is exponential and its limitation is infinite, we could create more than we could ever consume, it's this whole selfish greedy motivation that seems to limit our potential. However it is a delicate balance we are gradually shifting I hope.

FUCK YOU GREEDY FUCKS GIMME SOME FREE CACTI!

j/k I love all you guys, especially all my idols and gurus.

[edit] spelling and stuff

jono, why would I want to openly criticise certain people in this community as taking the saviour guru mentality too seriously.

If anybody finds me too preachy please do tell, I'm happy though in that I try to not take myself or much of reality too seriously.

Also you got me, I'm actually parroting others opinions of other people I have little/no contact with, acting in a holier than thou guru that blesses people with his amanita piss - attitude.

Edited December 18, 2007 by El Duderino

[incognito]

do divulge, who are these walking cliches u speak of dude?? and why in ur opinion?? or is that a secret? secret time!

[Guest Øskorei]

We offer about 600 products and I share all information on every single one of them EXCEPT ONE.

EXCEPT ONE in caps, eh ? For clarification, does this mean that you'll spill the beans on either the NotHash OR the Not Opium (two different 'products'), while maintaining the EXCEPT ONE mantra ? He he, I'm just winding you up mate, I know as well as anyone that you contribute hugely to the community, as well as being occasionally willing to throw a few bob towards someone else's plans if you deem them worthy - even if they don't get off the ground (Osk kicks himself forcefully on the buttocks on your behalf).

Herbal_Hindsight does raise some questions that might be reconsidered as discussion points if the 'ranting' tone was avoided. Perhaps consumers do have a right to know what's in the products they're buying - just as we all should know about the 1% stuff that is omitted, mostly by corporate multinationals. But conversely if there's no specific regulation in place that requires a manufacturer to do so, then it's discretionary. Fuck, there's patents that exist on all sorts of stuff that are closely guarded. I suppose that in the 'Not" range it's down to a level of trust in the manufacturer/creator to supply a legal product that doesn't fuck you over in the long term. And if anyone has qualms about it then they can avoid smoking the stuff.

As for the big business overseas market in herbal highs, may I pose a question........ as a self-confessed illiterate in chem analysis...... what would it take to throw this stuff through a few tests to determine it's ingredients ? Would it be under a grand if you knew which channels to go through ? Sure, the market in Oz would not justify it, but a shrewd overseas vendor with a massive return customer database could surely conduct some such tests in order to emulate the product and make a killing !

[Torsten]

Interesting twists and turns this thread took. Interesting and somewhat ugly. Seems like folks are pretty unaware of their own hypocrisy and feel the best way to not have to face it is to attack the next person. I reckon most of us are sitting in glass houses when it comes to this issue and each one would do well to clean up their own act or shut up. Only a small number of folks here actually put the profits they make from plants and from their intellectual property back into the community. Most just use it for their own benefit [and yes, selectively sharing plants in individuals trades is still mostly for ones own benefit].

Having been in this community for over a decade now I can see many people with great altruistic intentions, but when push comes to shove most just end up feeding their own families and their own collections. You only have to look at how few plantheads actually actively support things like EGA, the various forums, lobby groups, legal actions, etc. I think 10% would be a generous estimate if you took action rather than words into account.

So yeah, I get pissed off when some noob thinks he's got it all sussed. I'm over it. One of the reason why I react so strongly these days is because I loathe getting dragged into waste-of-time discussions that have happened before and will probably happen again. But where are all the knockers? What have they done for their part of the community? After 8 years of providing a platform for everyone [including the knockers] I shouldn't even have to defend myself anymore. So I won't. Don't buy my products if you don't like them and don't use these forums if you don't like who runs them

EXCEPT ONE in caps, eh ? For clarification, does this mean that you'll spill the beans on either the NotHash OR the Not Opium (two different 'products'), while maintaining the EXCEPT ONE mantra ?

Hehe, you thought you could outsmart me eh? Well, notOpium will not be made available again [too tedious], so there is only one product

He he, I'm just winding you up mate, I know as well as anyone that you contribute hugely to the community, as well as being occasionally willing to throw a few bob towards someone else's plans if you deem them worthy - even if they don't get off the ground (Osk kicks himself forcefully on the buttocks on your behalf).

Don't worry about it. seriously, it happens more often than you would care to imagine. And most don't have as compelling reasons as you did.

Perhaps consumers do have a right to know what's in the products they're buying - just as we all should know about the 1% stuff that is omitted, mostly by corporate multinationals. But conversely if there's no specific regulation in place that requires a manufacturer to do so, then it's discretionary. Fuck, there's patents that exist on all sorts of stuff that are closely guarded.

It's a tricky situation. I can't sell it as a food because the ingredients are not registered foods. I can't sell it as a therapeutic cos that would require registration [and the major $$ to achieve that]. Overseas most of these products are simply sold as incense and that is what we will utlimately have to do if the situation arises. Not that it will impact on sales, but it will mean we won't be able to give any consumption instructions on the package and THAT is bad for the consumer.

I suppose that in the 'Not" range it's down to a level of trust in the manufacturer/creator to supply a legal product that doesn't fuck you over in the long term. And if anyone has qualms about it then they can avoid smoking the stuff.

The product contains a clever combination of herbs that are already being widely consumed for the same purposes. It's my knowledge of the interactions of herbs that has allowed me to make this potent product, NOT the discovery of new obscure herbs. Like combining lotus with alcohol, or caffeine with tyrosine, where the combined effect is greater than the sum of its parts. It's the result of 20 years research into the concept of synergy and 10 years research into hash substitutes.

As for the big business overseas market in herbal highs, may I pose a question........ as a self-confessed illiterate in chem analysis...... what would it take to throw this stuff through a few tests to determine it's ingredients ? Would it be under a grand if you knew which channels to go through ? Sure, the market in Oz would not justify it, but a shrewd overseas vendor with a massive return customer database could surely conduct some such tests in order to emulate the product and make a killing !

This is being done a lot. The whole NZ part pill market is based on people stealing each other's formulas. Pity that most of them are quite unimaginative and hence easy to copy. On the other hand you have a product like SPICE or Spice gold, which is probably the most popular smoking prep on the market. It has an impressive list of semi active herbs on the back and claims to be all natural. Pity that the manufacturer's raw materials supplier blabbed about what is really in spice, which is a very potent synthetic THC analog [hence it is not legally available in Oz]. Various analysis have failed on this product due to some clever masking compounds they added into the mix, which obscure HPLC and GC/MS readings. These guys really know what they are doing and they have managed to fool the world for years. Yet no one gives a shit about the fact that the active constituent is not natural because they give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt. Imagine if *I* released such a product. I would be crucified in australia. It is still the best selling herbal prep. And have you seen the price of that?

Anyway, the analysis would be a few hundred $$, but would not reveal much. Complex crude herbal extracts are notoriously difficult to elucidate for actives, even when you know what actives you are looking for. And the ones you might find may well not be the ones that matter

For the last 2 years I have not released my latest inventions to the australian market. Mainly because of people like herbal_hindsight and the attitudes of people like passive. Thelema made me realise that [by proxy] in the original discussion on the notHash products. Why should I put up with that sort of shit? For what? The australian market is tiny in comparison to the O/S market and I have a lot less legal hurdles to jump. And once I have jumped those legal hurdles I then find a grateful clientele rather than a minority, yet continuous supply of ignorant tall poppy cutters. The money I make over there then allows me to run the australian retail operation at zip profit - for which I then again have to endure abuse of all sorts. Makes you wonder what's wrong with me eh? I am not complaining as that is the path I have chosen for myself and I could drastically change it anytime if I wanted to - but I don't want to. Doesn't mean I don't question myself frequently/continuously though, which is why I can get momentarily quite pissed at such knockers [until I remember the bigger picture].

[Torsten]

Oh and while on the topic of ".... i can't believe it's not moroccan hashish", I have spent the last 2 months working on a new recipe which improves the smoking properties, the effects, and the hot weather stability. ICBN.2 will be released in about 2 or 3 weeks.

[AndyAmine.]

Nice work T, keep it up mate.. ;)

[incognito]

cant wait, me arth chillum will be waiting, think that would be a great way to access for its own effects and benefits.

consistency is spot on, nothing worse than trying to spotthe 'greasy' stuff.

[Sparkster]

man, what a thread eh?

To preach to anyone about how they should run THEIR own buisness/organisation/group/hobby is lame in my book, especially when we all obviously get a huge kick out of what Torsten has done here.

Frustrating thing about stupid accusations is that you have to waste energy responding to them when they don't deserve a response.

[focus]

Don't let the haters get you down Torsten.... No sane person likes to don the internet warrior suit, but

you had no choice....

In fact it's refreshing to see an admin bustin loose every now and then with a fuck you and such... Beats

the hell out of the PC crap that mods/media in general dish out these days...

I mean I'm paranoid, but you/SAB as ruthless profiteers is hilarious.. I often wonder how you make any

money at all considering the labour, research, huge product range and prices.

Just for the record, I think both of the not/ products are killer, and I wouldn't give away the recipe either. So long as

they are safe, and relatively non-toxic there is nothing overtly unethical about it.

[incognito]

j/k I love all you guys, especially all my idols and gurus.

Also you got me, I'm actually parroting others opinions of other people I have little/no contact with, acting in a holier than thou guru that blesses people with his amanita piss - attitude.

i dunno, while we r aluding to shit and stuff....

who is blessing people with amanita piss? what do u know that i dont??

was that the guy on the bridge???

if u dont take itseriously then say watcha mean boy.or is that say watcha mean if r serious..uhhhh but if u were sayin watcha meant when u were not serious that would make u serious....

[edit] spelling and stuff

jono, why would I want to openly criticise certain people in this community as taking the saviour guru mentality too seriously.(u could psychoanalyse the shit outta that.)

If anybody finds me too preachy please do tell, I'm happy though in that I try to not take myself or much of reality too seriously.

ihave no idea. im going to bed this is messing with my noggin. the conspiracy thickens!! who are these parroted people?

this is sounding more like a c complex government system that u hate so much!! arghhhhh!!!!

note to self, never read the forums on a low dose of oyster muchrooms ever agin .

complicatedas fuck duder, gotsto be simpler than that ??

definatel a bitch ditch issue, can i be bitch ditch mod t? thatcan be a contribution? shovel my own poo there,

omg so embaresed bit now to weary to ,.

ahem..if u want a bitch ditch mod, im ur man!!

Edited December 18, 2007 by jono

[AndyAmine.]

I think Jono would be a perfect mod for the bitches and gripes forum.

[marsha]

the cant beleive products contain strychnine thats why ya get high simmilar to magic mushrooms and heroin im making a new product myself called "cant beleive its not mexican peyote" any one interested send me money to further my research you can contact me via pm and direct deposit funds into my bank account thanks have a nice day. ps any one whinging about the sab "cant beleives" they taste good have a mildish effect and are fun and legal and cheap sheesh u could always shell out and get ya self some real hashish or opium what were u expecting oh yes i can beleive its heroin???

[incognito]

haha thanks andy...i think?Q

[tryptamine]

Torsten, just a thought, if you label the product as an herbal incense blend that may avoid any further hassles.

Personally I,m all for secret ingredients. Its a by-product of prohibition. Those that don,t like it should be campaigning for drug law reform.

Edited December 19, 2007 by tryptamine