australian ethno/entheo zine publication

[_e_]

i have re-written this post about 4 times and each time composed a huge poll regarding the project... each time i posted the thread and poll disappeard and added to an increasingly frustrated and time consumed Eli

hopefully this time will work and ill go back to trying to get the poll to work....

here goes:

hey all u plant troopers,

well ive been longing for some active expression of just how much this community and others like it have to offer.

Ive been dreaming of writing a book, setting up a website e.t.c to provide an alternative and fresh format for the exploartion of whats going on, and has happened, in the australian enthegon community for some time now...

As we all know, it takes time and patience, and ive been spending a hell of a lot of time integrating the experiences and insights ive had with entheogens, without being able to concisely manifest these 'dreamings' in an appropriate and safe way.

These forums are an amaizing hot bed of cultural evolution, and EGA and Ethnobotanica are a great sign of just how much we can achieve when we all get together and make an effort.

What im proposing is a community based project where we get together and start producing an ethno/entho zine for production and circulation by the community, for the community.

What i envision is a once a month publication sort of like a mini entheogen review australian style..

I dont quite know who, what, where or when. But its an idea i thought was too good to remain locked up in my forever dreaming, formulating and envisioning mind.

All it takes is for a collective of willing individuals to share the responsibility of some key facilitating roles, and for larger groups of people to deal with the lesser logistics of the enterprise.

Then it goes out to the rest of the community to get behind and support the project and see where it goes.

Of course there are lots of flaws in my idealism, but thats where the discussion of this issue amongst the community allows everyone of you to think about and formulate an idea as to just how realistic it may be and what can be done to make it perhaps one day a reality.

So ive planted the seed and will continue to water it with my own ideas, but it is up to all of you give it the love and fertiliser it needs to survive and grow... who knows what it might grow into, but its up to us to keep it alive.

[Torsten]

I think it is a great idea, however, there are a few things you should consider:

1) Subscriber base. TER has a subscriber base of several thousand and yet is not viable. Subscribers pay approx AU$35 for 4 issues, yet lately it has been more like 3 issues per year.

2) Funding. TER exists from high subscriber fees and from considerable advertising revenue. I am certain that neither would be availabele in oz, except from bong/head shops. Most ethnobot businesses could not afford to advertise even if they wanted to, and given the legal climate I presume most would not want to. It will be VERY hard to get suscribers to part with anything like $8 per issue. The ones that would will probably also be the ones helping to run the project.

3) Style. If you go underground/scientific then advertising dollars will be hard to come by. If you go commercial then you might get the bucks, but I wonder if that is really the direction you'd want to go.

4) Legality. A hornet's nest if you release something in print in australia.

5) Currency. TER's greates drain has been the internet. Research moves along so much faster and communication is instant, so most folks who are online simply wouldn't consider spending money on TER. Australia has an extremely high technology uptake and people are moving away from print media in droves.

6) DPI. Why waste paper for what is visually an inferior product? Digital media allows for large hi res pics at virtually no cost, while print media has to make compromises. When we were considering media for our intended publication (don't ask ), the ONLY reason why we opted for paper was because of the existing and established processes of getting print media into university and state libraries.

As I said, I think it is a great idea. However, several years after planning our own publication and having talked to others who have run such projects (eg TRIP, Entheos, TER, etc) I am a little more cautious.

One thing to consider is the EGA model. Say what?

Yes, there is something unique at EGA that makes it thrive like no other event. It's the cross over thing. Let's face it, the ethno community is too small and fickle to really get itself anywhere. However, combined with a much larger base (such as oztrance) you can get a crossover product that is viable as well as being a an introduction of one community into the intricacies of the other. So at EGA we had 50 y.o. plant heads who normally listen to classical music trying their feet at shamanic dance workshops (ie doofing ), while many a doofer was blown away (literally ) by what the plant world has to offer.

My point is that if you are going to go for the print version, then maybe marry the ethnobotany scene with another scene to broaden your subscriber base. Whether this is doof, art, computer geeks, or whatever.

whatever you decide to embark on, make sure you have the energy to see it through. Good luck!

[_e_]

im about to put up a poll in regards to many of those ideas torsten, but am literally falling asleep at the computer...

I wasnt necessarily looking at print media, an online zine and supporting webpage was more where my thought process was headed. (although print media would be good as it provides more of a financial support system)

The cross over thing is something i have been admiring and aspiring towards for quite sometime... i like to call it PSYBOTANICA ETHNODELIA. There is so much to be said about the synergy of the doof experience and the entheogenic pathways.

As i am quite sick and continue to be quite sick my interest is having a format that doesnt rely on one or two people doing the hard yards, moreover a group of people who can volunteer whatever resources available whenever available to make it happen. (and whether a sharing system can actually work)

The idea for the zine comes from the fact that whilst there are a hell of a lot of people active out there in the entheogen community (which stems far beyond ethnobotany and oztrance), there is little revenue for public communication and expression of what is REALLY going on.. People are holding back from allowing the depth of their experiences to be shared for fear of the legal rammifications.

When i say REALLY going on, im meaning the experiences and what is being learnt and being done with the experiences... Theres certain problems with the supposed FOS+FOI in this country and there is a wealth of experiences and learning that are laying dormant and hidden from the collective conscience of our community.

What i would like to see is an avenue whereby people can use these experiences and entheogenic journeys to creatively engage in a new wave of 'storytelling'. A subtle and creative way of manifesting the entheogenic experience in a safe and sharable manner.

As our community evolves it mostly focus's on sharing information about the botany and science and anthropology of the entheogens... What im interested in is exploring the anthropology of the present, the ethnobotany of the entheogen community so to speak..

Im sorry ive got to come back to this one as im barely keeping my eyes open..

but yeah, bring on the re-emergence of the dreaming

in the light of love

***E***

[BlackDragon]

Personally, I cant see how/why making our hard earned(and hidden) work/cultivation/information/scientific evaluations publically printed could be a good thing?!

Thats exactly what TER is for. Australian or not, its a worldwide publication, that allows us to share our "hidden talents" with other "hidden" practioiners. the word here is hidden.

If our community could be "open" and public about what we do, we would be living in a dreamworld.

Fact is that we study Mainly Illegal Drugs. We are trying to understand the complexities of an issue that 99% of the world is staunchly against. Now for us everyday oldskool ethnoheads, we come to live and breath a world of study/experiments and all levels of botanic life, including the "horrid drugs".... quite frankly, the rest of the world would rather see us locked up. Wheather we are helping the good of man or nature, they DONT care! Repeat, they DO NOT CARE.

Its seems rediculous to me to recruit doofers with f*@ck all to do with botany for the sake of a published magazine. Just a for sales?? IS our community worth loosing over SALES??

Do these everydayers really deserve all the long cultured info we have, I mean, they dont need it now so why do they need to know? If they were all turely interested they would already be here or be subscribing to TER.

I was astounded at the polarization at EGA. My thoughts above are formed from that exact event. I saw doofers with NO fucking interest in botany, just there to get off, and Old ethno heads, that didnt give a fuck about the doof, were there to share info... botanical or not.

While watching a presentation from what was really a lsd inspired drug-skewed media journalist, handing out and pushing his printed material before he even started his speach, I was overcome with the whole "intention" thing.

Where does this guys intention lie? Hes just spouting re-churned crap and look at me and my booklet on acid. I was absolutely dumbfounded when he started to spout that "its the time now for us to bring forth our communtinty into the limelight, out into the public arena.. rah rah..."

IS THIS GUY KIDDING?! i thought. Dam we work so hard to dodge the laws and stay 3 steps ahead of them, now this guy wants to publicly publish our plight? WHAT THE???

Didgital release ok, no worries. Its there for those that are looking or are interested... recruiting doofers for sales is a joke.

Ive probably cause some dislike towards myself form this post, but Im only trying to protect our communities future. It doesnt have to be like every other "mainstreamed" community....

Im a firm believer of:

"If you really want to find something different, you would have started looking already"

Edited July 28, 2006 by BlackDragon

[Brunklestein]

Sad but true BlackDragon, to the law enforcers we are criminals, to most religious groups we are evil, even the ignorant, when informed of the entheogens generally reguard them & their enthusiasts with suspicition. This knowledge throughout history has always been hidden from the mainstream, yet has still survived to the present, All the work that has been done & wealth of info that has survived is sacred & should be treated accordingly. One must remember that direct experiences with the divine threaten dominator power structures & they will say & do almost anything to protect that control. Do your history, the perscution has been happening a very long time in all walks of life. This movement of Plant/Human relationships pre-dates all others, it is a spiritually rich tapestry of knowledge & experience that should be protected 1st & shared 2nd, as this requires much thought & wisdom! As for Doof, i have nothing against it personally except, as far as psychedelic music goes, for me, it doesnt have too much longevity, but hey, its great for a bit of fun Sorry if i have dampened some peoples enthusiasim with what may be percieved as a somewhat pessimistic rant, that wasnt my intent, like BlackDragon said we need to keep 3 steps ahead of those who wish to silence us- just dont be naive! It isnt a fashion statement or a brand to be marketed- isnt it about dissolving, not feeding the ego?? Remember to keep your intention true, is it all worth risking for a bit of coin?

[Torsten]

I think we need to find a balance between 'getting it out there' and 'keeping it safe'. personally I don't see any need to keep stuff secret that is already in the hands of the TGA. eg, getting info out there about kratom and salvia was a bad thing 5 years ago (before they were scheduled), but is a good thing now to show people the stupidity of the laws. Let's not forget that it is th wide acceptance of cannabis that is changing the laws - slowly. if we had maintained the silence and secrecy about pot 10 or 15 years ago then we would not be in the much more relaxed situation now.

So yeah, let's post experiences about the things that are known about already, but let's be careful about contributing to the demise of many of the obscure little secrets we cultivate. The responsibility for this lies with the editors.

[_e_]

I think what you are missing here is the ENTHEOGEN side of what im tlking about... i think the forums have all the botanical and ethnobotanical aspects covered, no need discussing the propogation of something or the utilisation of somethign else when its all quite clearly and concisely covered on these forums..

what im tlking about is an exploration of the actual entheogenic experiences people have been having in a creative way that allows for the full breadth of what is happening in the entheogenic community to be explored in a safe and anonymous way...

Im not tlking about recruiting doofers, nor am i tlking about it being a magazine purely for this community, what im tlking about is combining the collective entheogenic experience and entheogenic philosophies and airing them in a fresh creative way.

Sure theres tons of people out there working with entheogens.. but what is ACTUALLY happeneing? what experiences are people having and how are they changing the way they think and act....

Trip reports and the like are few and far between, and even then its still based ona relatively scientific approach... what im interested is giving a format for the exploration of just what entheogens are catalysing within and without our communities...

For starters it would be an excellant way to get some of the emerging brilliance of some of our psychadelic artists out there, and also would allow for 'amaizing' experiences to become a little more clear and potent then the third hand word of mouth i hear nearly every day...

like i said, a RE- emergence of the storytelling and dreaming

P:S torsten- theres no need to mention the substance, moreover mention the experience and what the experience meant and presented to the experiencer..... like i siad somewhare above, im not interested in a magazine about drugs, im interested in a magazine about entheogenic experience.... and they are totally different things

Edited July 29, 2006 by min(E)rval

[transDiMenTional]

This sounds like a really good idea to me E Often its in trying to intergrate ones experiences into everyday life that the support and experiences of others is needed IMO.

[_e_]

it would also be a great revenue for our community to express and spread our concern relating specific drug laws (and the failures inherit) and also to spread information regarding harm minimisation...

- just dont be naive! It isnt a fashion statement or a brand to be marketed- isnt it about dissolving, not feeding the ego?? Remember to keep your intention true, is it all worth risking for a bit of coin?

Brunklestein, i find this comment rather disappointing, this isnt about something I want, nor is it something about being cool, its just an IDEA that id like to share regarding a COMMUNITY project.... besides, did i not mention that the cost of the zine would go towards covering the cost of further zines, and that any profits would go directly back into community projects such as 'friends of the phlebophylla' ?

Thats exactly what TER is for. Australian or not, its a worldwide publication, that allows us to share our "hidden talents" with other "hidden" practioiners. the word here is hidden.

Black dragon- if an australian entheogen review were to made (hypothetically here of course) what would make it any less hidden the TER, or for instance, these forums? like i said above, it would be a community project, made by the community, for the community, and circulated by the community....

Its seems rediculous to me to recruit doofers with f*@ck all to do with botany for the sake of a published magazine. Just a for sales?? IS our community worth loosing over SALES??

this has nothign to do with 'recruiting' or 'sales'.. in fact i think neither of them have factored into my thoughts at all... there are a hell of a lot of doofers out there who know a hell of a lot about botany and ethnobotany.. but thats totally besside the point.... one thing we share in common is the ENTHEOGENIC EXPERIENCE and therr is a wealth of entheogen related experiences, knowledge and wisdom floating around in the trance scene that is just as valuable as ours.... its about the experiences and a creative expression of what the experiences are and what they do for us....

Do these everydayers really deserve all the long cultured info we have, I mean, they dont need it now so why do they need to know? If they were all turely interested they would already be here or be subscribing to TER.

BD

All the other quotes i have been able to understand and look at it from your opinion... but this post really worries me... You presume that we as a community actually 'own' this information? that for some reason we are more worthy to this information then anyone else... I find this to be quite stagnant and selfish... Sure maybe we have worked hard to learn what we learn, develop what we have developed.. but personally i thik this information is FOR THE GOOD OF ALL...

The knowledge has to come from some where, and i for one think that 'keeping secrets' in regards to information that has the capacity to enrich peoples lives and even society as a whole is damn right WRONG.

The online ethno community, the ethno community and the doof community are only SOME of whats happening in australia in regards to entheogens and plant medicine... theres a hell of a lot more going on out there then some of us realise, and i think the attitude that 'we are the only ones doing this good work' is somewhat naieve in itself.

Edited July 29, 2006 by min(E)rval

[BlackDragon]

I understand your point min(e),

Dont get me wrong.

Im all for sharing journeys, art and insights, it does all add to a greater collective as you mentioned, we just have to be a little careful, thats all.

I find its better to air my concerns than to hide them. And it has probably generated some more ideas on the topic and maybe given a clearer path for you to follow...Im definatley not against your ideas, just they have to be honed and sorted before you decide to folow your idea. It IS a good idea, just not so as a printed zine.

 

I find this to be quite stagnant and selfish... Sure maybe we have worked hard to learn what we learn, develop what we have developed.. but personally i thik this information is FOR THE GOOD OF ALL...

The knowledge has to come from some where, and i for one think that 'keeping secrets' in regards to information that has the capacity to enrich peoples lives and even society as a whole is damn right WRONG.

Im sorry but you have no idea on how much helpful information I have deceminated over the years, thats exactly my point. I know the power of this information and to some it can be very scary(legal egals etc..) to others it can open a wealth of life changing events. Its always been persecuted toady is no different. Again, we just have to be careful. Im sorry but your fooling yourself if you think the whole world is going to eat shrooms and be all good. We wish..

.... besides, did i not mention that the cost of the zine would go towards covering the cost of further zines, and that any profits would go directly back into community projects such as 'friends of the phlebophylla' ?

Perhaps this shouldve been shared at the begining... So you are looking at a printed media?

if an australian entheogen review were to made (hypothetically here of course) what would make it any less hidden the TER, or for instance, these forums? like i said above, it would be a community project, made by the community, for the community, and circulated by the community....

No, not if it was subscriber based. Where do you intend on circulating to then may I ask?

... theres a hell of a lot more going on out there then some of us realise, and i think the attitude that 'we are the only ones doing this good work' is somewhat naieve in itself.

So these "others" are going to come crawling out to your publication? Unless they go to doofs or read these forums, where are they going to access your zine(presuming it is printed that is, if not i withdraw this statement.)? Like I said i think a digital medium would be ideal, and I would like to see it.

Please dont take offence to what Im saying, just trying to iron out bits of the path we are looking at here.

[Maturin]

Seems like the old "Timothy Leary - Tell everyone about it"/"Aldous Huxley - Tell only some" debate still rages on.

I wish all the best of luck with their endeavours.

My personal belief is, somehow these plants seek YOU out...it's like they know things we don't, and they want to pass on some lessons. Or I just could be on drugs!!

[_e_]

I totally agree that there is a fine line one has to walk in regards to this information, however this is precisely why i said it should be creative and explorative. Why i feel such an endeavour could be a great means to spread the word without the actual WORDS that you might find on this particular forum.

What i was asking was more whether people thought it was a good idea or something they might or might not want to be a part of. More exploring whether a community/collective project of such a nature was somethign peopel thought might benefit the community.

The nitty gritty of format, fee, subscribes e.t.c was something i though might be covered later once people actually decided if it was something they wanted.

personally i feel the 'entheogenic experience' is deeply enmeshed in the australian underground. And see a lack of underground print or digital media showcasing the australian entheogenic experience, As such i would LOVE to see a collective of people get together and work on SOMETHING, ANYTHING that creatively explroes whats going on in order to share the knowledge and information in a fresh and different way.

Id love to be a part of something like that, but again this isnt about ME, its about whether this idea is actually feasible, and whether the 'collective/co-operative' actually exists as a functional element within this community in the first place.

BTW- i think u underestimate just how many people in australia are active in the entheogenic community.. Not only people on these forums or int he doof community, but wel land truly beyond that... they are not 'others' as u put it, but people whom share the same interest as us but explore it in a totally different manner.

Edited August 3, 2006 by min(E)rval

[RonnySimulacrum]

personally i feel the 'entheogenic experience' is deeply enmeshed in the australian underground. And see a lack of underground print or digital media showcasing the australian entheogenic experience, As such i would LOVE to see a collective of people get together and work on SOMETHING, ANYTHING that creatively explroes whats going on in order to share the knowledge and information in a fresh and different way.

Id love to be a part of something like that, but again this isnt about ME, its about whether this idea is actually feasible, and whether the 'collective/co-operative' actually exists as a functional element within this community in the first place.

I would love to subscribe to an Australian journal something like the ethnogenic review.

I know it is not on paper but I feel that the Entheogenesis Australis or EGA05 cd (available at http://www.entheo.net/notices.htm) was a good introduction to some aspects of the Oz ethnogenic culture and feel the DVD that will be produced from this years conference well be of much better quality and hopefully even more of an asset to the community.

I also feel one of the big problem is that we are not that aware of research being done formally in Oz. Not that it all needs to be but it would be good to have some very legal good news to fill the pages of the journal with. Ega almost broke even this year (Thanks mainly to the donation of time, energy, $$$ and effect of over 50 people) , and if and when we do we would love to donate some $$$ back to legal AUSTRALIAN projects, wether it be $100 or $1000.

EGA as well as other such Conference/Gathering provide loads of information and fun times to catch up, but without some way of a more directly feeding back to legal research I feel they may just be water off a ducks back. I know SAB has been good in this area

I very much hope you guys can get this journal up and running, it sounds fantastic

Edited August 4, 2006 by RonnySimulacrum

[folias]

Having an "official" place to come out with discoveries and findings and so on...may well inspire some to put out important information they don´t feel like posting online or just doesn´t have anywhere to go at the moment!

The entheogen review works much like this... and it is fully underground!

Julian.

[Machine Elf]

Being someone who publishes a professional quality magazine (Sub Rosa) as an electronic version, thought I'd just chip in quickly...I actually thought about an entheogenic zine a while back.

Firstly, you have to be *really* committed to do it on a monthly basis - we publish quarterly and that itself is quite a drain on us (admittedly, we do it part-time).

A print version is extremely difficult to do - the costs are very prohibitive unless you have a large audience (eg. 1000 copies will run more than $5000 just in print costs, though 20,000 copies will only cost around $18,000 - $5 cost per copy vs $0.90 per copy respectively). Then you have circulation to maintain, so someone would have to organise mailouts etc (unless you paid for circulation handling).

If you are doing an electronic version (ie. PDF), then you have to ask what it gives you above just settting up a website - for us, it's being able to present nice graphics and typesetting, just making it overall are more pleasing way to read the content. We have our daily news site at www.dailygrail.com, but the mag lets us present articles in a much more interesting way.

Cool things about a PDF over print include being able to embed live links, audio and even video these days. Plus there are no costs in printing and distribution, obviously - it's mainly just your time. Bad things about PDF is that there aren't many people that actually prefer reading a PDF on their monitor over sitting down with a nice print mag.

Advertising is one way to cover costs, but as Torsten pointed out it could be problematic finding many interested parties. If you use your imagination though, looking at the demographic, you may find enough to raise funds to make it worthwhile (online gardening supplies, spiritual/paranormal books, alternative bands). As you avoid print and distribution costs with an electronic version, you can offer quite low advertising prices (not having to cover a 'cost per page' minimum fee as in print).

Another option to look at is putting together a yearly anthology for a Print-on-Demand book...PoD books can be manufactured for around $US3.50 (200 pages) these days, and you can put one on Amazon at around $13.95, giving up 25% to Amazon, leaving around $US7 profit per copy. PoD are also starting to do colour books as well, but at the moment they cost around 9 cents per page - not really cost-effective unless you have an audience that is willing to pay a premium.

Anyhow some thoughts - happy to help out with anything if needed.

Belf

[wandjina]

Sounds great Eli, even with all the potential hurdles discussed above.... some great advice...what a wonder-full community eh?

Anyhoo... I'm on board

Some of what I write, and/or would like to write, isn't sutiable for uni....and I'm also happy to contribute art/design stuff.

so yeah, count me in

[_e_]

thankyou very much for all your awesome input guys

Some things that have been floating around my head the ladt week in regards to this topic:

- a limited pressing/underground community supported biannual glossy plant and mind porn zine similiar in presentation to 'kaktussy'.

Financially supported by pre purchasing, i.e there are only as many printed as the pre purchas funds allow for, similiar to print on demand system.

-Supported by, or replaced by, an online pdf format zine that runs on free subscription and donation (similiar to Sub Rosa). This format could be larger in content then the print version, and is cheaper, although lacks the ascetic value of the print version.

This version could be released 2 months later then the print version (or something like that) to encourage pre purchase funding of a limited print run.

A CALANDER?

I got to thinking that maybe an entheo/ethno calander would be good to make as a test run for the collective effort thing, and could take similiar form and format to the zine. It would also be awesome if the calander could have an online interactive format, so that events could be marked alongside the pre-prepared visual information and important notable dates. the calander could include a basic ethno-entheo grow guide as well.

Sub Rosa and EGA were largely responsible for motivating my ideas about the zine, and great indicators of the 'potential' for such projects.

Personaly i dont like the idea of 'targeting' the 'doof' or 'ethno' or 'online' communitys... I think providing an alternative outlet and format for the creative expression of experiential information is a good focus.

The limiting factor would be those willing to take part and support the project, and at present i think there is a wealth of highly capable and active individuals whose input could really make this happen, it just depends on whether we all have the time and energy to commit to such a project.

perhaps the calander, in its most primitive form would be a good test run?

[simon_marklar]

i work for a company that audits printed media.

dont go printed! it costs heaps and unless you have the advertising/subscribers paying a high price you'll lose money. they are all trying to figure out how to take thier business online - print is dying a slow drawn out death...

Repeat this mantra of free distribution and printing:

PEEE DEEE EEEF. PEEE DEEE EEEF. PEEE DEEE EEEF. PEEE DEEE EEEF.

EEEEE MAAAY EEEELL. EEEEE MAAAY EEEELL. EEEEE MAAAY EEEELL.

not only is it free printing and distribution, but you wont be using a dead tree to distribute your magazine about sacred plants.