Erythroxylum coca

[Murple]

Don't know much about the Huanuco strain, but I'd guess that it comes from the vicinity of the town in Peru that bears the same name.

As far as uses... to the people in the Andes, there is no E. coca, E. novogranatense, E. trijillense, etc. These classifications surely do matter, just not to the people in the Andes. To them, they're all coca. They categorize different kinds of leaf as well, but not in the same way that botanists do. In any case, this particular strain is likely used like any other strain of coca. I don't believe Huanuco is in a cocaine producing area, so its probably used for traditional uses... chewing, topical application, ritual sacrifice to Pachamama, or for fortune telling (sort of like reading tea leaves).

As to its chemical composition... like I said, I'm not familiar with the Huanuco strain or how it varies from other novogranatense strains.

[Torsten]

Thanks Murple. I presume it was a producing strain as it is still common on Java, and as far as I know they only grew potent strains to produce lots of paste.

[Murple]

I did some web searches, and it looks to me like the dominant coca species around Huanuco is E. coca rather than novogranatense.

Where did you read about this strain?

[Torsten]

It is present in some private collections in Java - leftovers of the colonial days. They distinguish between this and a couple of other strains. Only huanuco and another were the commercial plants used. Doubtful it is a coca species as this would probably not tolerate java's climate too well.

[Murple]

I dont see why E. coca wouldn't tolerate Java's climate, based on what I know of Java.

[theobromos]

I did not say my English is flawed but that your comprehension of it is flawed. Do you believe that making such a statement (and other misreadings of what I said) will change what I said to fit your worldview? We aren't at the Lycaeum now, you can't have my replies deleted because I pointed out you are wrong. There is no point continuing a discussion with someone who cannot understand the subtleties of the English language. Anyone who reads my posts and your replies above will know you are uncomprehending.

Murple, I am not jealous nor angry, I despise you and pity you, the English language is a treasure house of delights you will never appreciate.

[Murple]

> Murple, I am not jealous nor angry, I despise

> you and pity you

Oh how cute, you're still bitter over being spanked for being dumb on the Lycaeum forums? I can't say I really remember you, but hey, I'm happy for you! Its nice to have old familiar things to cling to in this sometimes cold and lonely world. You go enjoy your bitterness... it obviously means a lot to you. However, maybe you can go despise me where somebody actually cares, rather than this thread. In case you haven't noticed, this is a coca thread on an ethnobotany forum, not a "Murple made me cry" thread on a "Shit nobody cares about" forum.

[Tripster]

Just a friendly note

I was offered coca seed @ A$100 each.

In the Rainbow region last year.

low land strain

But being the law abiding person I am I declined.

[Murple]

You probably would've been ripped off... aside from that price being laughable, the seeds were most likely dead already (if they weren't outright fakes) since coca seeds don't stay viable for very long.

If you're not in the Andes, and someone offers you coca seeds... unless you actually watch them harvest the seeds from the plant, don't buy them.

[theobromos]

no need for this at all

I reserve the right to follow other trains of thought within a thread and correct misapprehensions that do not relate to the title.

this is true, so long as it does not break the forum rules. In this case it did hence the edditing on my behalf

[This message has been edited by Adrian (edited 28 August 2002).]

[Murple]

no need for this at all.

[This message has been edited by Adrian (edited 28 August 2002).]

[Jack]

Can anyone else hear the school bell ringing?

[Guest reville]

I thought you two had already been warned to keep it civil.

This is not acceptable to turn a forum marked ethnobotany discussion into a slanging match.

Get it back on track or take it elsewhere. Theres no room for debate on this, Private grievances offer nothing to this forum.

You might be some of the most knowledgeable contributors but it doesnt give anyone special privelages to carry this any further.

This Forum and others still have a bad taste in our mouths from past disputes and narrowly avoided consequences.

If you dont think you can bring it back on track then just walk away and leave it as is.

[devance]

Heres my research report:

Description.—Two South American cocas are found in commerce. One known as Huanuco or Cuzco Coca, is derived from places of those names in Peru, the cities being located south of the central part of the state; and Truxillo or Trujillo Coca, coming from the northern portion of Peru.

The latter kind has pale-green leaves, which are thin and easily broken, not so large but more pointed than those of Huanuco coca, which are coriaceous, thicker, and have a much deeper green color.

The Truxillo leaf is said to be identical with that furnished by the Java shrub. Bolivian coca is regarded as finer than that grown in Peru.

It is identical in appearance with the Huanuco variety.

Ceylon leaves which are are the leaves of E. Coca; they resemble Bolivian leaves, but are usually larger, and are said to contain rather less alkaloid.

Coca leaves from Java are derived from E. Coca, var. spruceanum, Burck.; yield about 0.7 per cent. of total alkaloid, part of which is benzoyl-pseudo-tropine or tropacocaine (has 50% activity of cocaine). Young (Java) leaves, carefully dried have been found to contain as much

as 2 per cent. of alkaloid. As the cocaine is easily hydrolysed it is desirable that the leaves should be free from mildew and kept in a dry place.

Constituents.—Coca leaves contain the alkaloids cocaine (methyl-benzoyl-ecgonine), cinnamyl- cocaine (methyl-cinnamyl-ecgonine), and truxilline (isatropyl-cocaine or cocamine).

The total amount yielded by the commercial leaves varies from about 0.1 to 1.0 per cent.

As a rule Truxillo leaves contain rather more alkaloid than Bolivian, but only about one-half of it is cocaine, whereas from three-fourths to five-sixths of the total alkaloid in Bolivian leaves consists of cocaine. The latter are to be preferred for medicinal use. Coca leaves also contain cocatannic acid.

Java coca contains tropacocaine and four yellow crystalline glucosides, in addition to the other constituents.

I got part of this info from King's American Dispensatory.

by Harvey Wickes Felter, M.D., and John Uri Lloyd, Phr. M., Ph. D., 1898. when there was more legal commercial trade and before Peru/Java Truxillo leaf became E. Novo, at least thats my guess. And I believe that Truxillo leafs contains generally 50% cocaine + tropocaine+alkaloids in greater amounts than E. coca which has generally 75% cocaine + alkaloids. This is my best interpretation and doesn't include age of leaves,age of plants,locality,microlocality genetic variations,cross hybridization or that 102 years have past. Or I might have it backwards.

As a interesting note Mark Twain as a young man considered moving to South America and becoming a Coca importer to the U.S., makes you wonder if he continued his interests in Coca. This was mentioned in a TV biography.

Ceylon-E coca-less alkaloids than normal, larger leaves

Java-E. novo-.7%alkaloid-2%alkaloids for young leaves-50%cocaine-also tropocaine

Northern Peru-Truxillo-E. novo-more total alkaloids than E.coca

Southern Peru-Huanuco-E. coca

Bolivia-E. coca-.1-1%alkaloids-75-83%cocaine

A Link to actual growing instructions: http://users.lycaeum.org/~mulga/coca.html

Other Links: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/ki...ythroxylon.html

[This message has been edited by devance (edited 28 August 2002).]

[Murple]

There's quite a bit more regional variation in coca than this. "Bolivian coca" is meaningful only in a geographical sense... like "German beer" or "French wine." There are quite a few varieties of coca grown in Bolivia, and these varieties can be as different from each other as they are from varieties grown in Peru, Colombia, Ecuador or Chile. These are large countries that contain quite a few different ecosystems. There's plenty of isolated villages.

The fact is that you really can't speak of "Bolivian coca" or "Peruvian coca" unless you're talking about something like the gross national crop production. Botanically speaking, these terms are pretty much meaningless.

Reville - I somewhat resent being included in your statement. The fact that someone else has some kind of old grudge against me and chose this thread to post off topic crap about me really isn't my fault. I think that I've been as civil as possible under the circumstances, and have done my best to stay on topic in spite of the dung being flung in my direction.

[This message has been edited by Murple (edited 27 August 2002).]

[Guest reville]

Murple i hear you

I wasnt pointing the finger at one of you in particular, i was just hoping that one or both of you would take the higher ground and that this would stop the slide.

I appreciate the fact there has been no further exchanges like we were seeing. Thankyou

Im sure most people around here will be able to read between the lines and see whos being unreasonable and would agree that it does them no good in this small community.

[Adrian]

PUBLIC WARNING:

to Murple & Theobromos

The following is taken from the Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers section (see Registering info).Here

-Do not insult fellow members of the community. Apologise publically if you do, and edit your offending post.

If you continue to disregard this and or other forum rules, you will be banned!

[Murple]

I have filed a formal complaint against the moderators of this forum with Torsten, and will not be participating in this forum again owing to the poor moderation here.

[This message has been edited by Murple (edited 28 August 2002).]

[waterdragon]

just in case i ever have to complain to torsten.. what does a formal complaint look like? is it a standard form available at s.a.b head office or do i have to send away for it? really this tanty/flee combo is getting old.

[planthelper]

found that a long time ago...

[email protected]

or msn search novogranatense

click horseshoe.:-)

[Darklight]

This forum has only one moderator- Adrian. Rev wrangles Seed & Plant, and I wrangle Chill.

Just because the three of us happen to concur does not make us all EB forum mods. Perhaps you'd like to file three separate formal complaints, one for each forum...the mind boggles.

WD I think you should write the formal complaint form and then work out how it should be presented and processed, this thread badly needs a humour injection roundabout now. Personally I'm thinking Monty Python, but I'm sure you can do better than that precious

[Adrian]

Thank you to those trying to keep this thread civil.

I apologize for not attending to this matter sooner.

I am the moderator of the Ethnobotany discussion forum.

Although the problems on this thread came to my attention only recently, there were still posts here that were in direct breach of the forum rules.

Despite the delay between when an offending post is made and when it is dealt with, it is the duty of the moderator to edit or remove the offending post/s.

The public warning was written to both parties responible for breaching the forum rules and also as a reminder to others that insults will not be accepted in this community.

[Tlaloc]

Hoka Hey! Brother

Hetchetuwelo

[Torsten]

Moderation is an unpopular and thankless task. Murple knows this cos he has been a mod on the lycaeum.

This thread got way out of hand and should have ideally been moderated sooner. However I know that moderators can't be here all the time and sometimes things develop in their absence. Adrian has my full confidence in looking after this place and I am keeping well out of it.

Murple's complaint centers around the fact that Adrian set a 'shut up or get out' ultimatum for both of them rather than differentiating who the aggressor and who the victim is. As far as I am concerned, as long as both sides are overstepping the line there are no victims - regardless of who started it. On this forum, if someone attacks you then complain to the mod and let him sort it out. Getting into a schoolyard fight won't help any of us. I explained this much earlier in this thread and was ignored. Tough luck - don't complain to me. If anyone has a problem with the mod then take it up with him. I will only step in if the mod can't resolve the issue (one e-mail does not qualify).

[shroomy]

theres only one solution crucifixtion nail em up i say, nail some sense into them:P