Magic mushrooms really cause 'spiritual' experiences

[Ed Dunkel]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=...line-news_rss20

“Magic” mushrooms really do have a spiritual effect on people, according to the most rigorous look yet at this aspect of the fungus's active ingredient.

About one-third of volunteers in the carefully controlled new study had a “complete” mystical experience after taking psilocybin, with half of them describing their encounter as the single most spiritually significant experience in their lifetimes.

[MORG]

Very interesting. This supports what I've always thought about spiritual experiences: that they are a total effect of neurochemistry and psychology.

In the course of past theological debates some people hang their faith on "religious experience". I agree that what they've felt must be beautiful and grand and that yes, they probably do feel immense love/joy/happines etc. However, in the words of Thom Yorke, "Just cos you feel it, doesn't mean it's there."

There are times (generally after a big night with booze and friends), with the aid of emotive music and environment I can get a rush. It usually happens while driving, when I'm on my own, immersed in music and scenery. The first few times I was taken by surprise, but now I can almost manufacture the feeling at will in the right environment and mindset. I believe there's some degree of manipulation of brain chemistry through psychology there.

I think this sort of experience is interpreted as a "religious" experience by some. If you've got the mindset and the stimulus to set it off, then after that I think it just comes down to your interpretation.

I remember reading about related research in New Scientist some years back which claimed to have found on average, higher levels of serotonin (I think) in the brains of Buddhist monks.

Thanks for pointing this one out Ed.

[SaBReT00tH]

True that!!

[-YT-]

The vast majority of it lies in ones perception/interpretation... whether it be just getting "fucked up"... Or a bunch of chemical and neurological reactions which it also is no doubt to a point. People shall see things ultimately how they want too to a certain degree and simply brush it off as just that a chemical reaction.

To believe that the world is only as you think it is, is a folly. The world is a mysterious place

[parzival]

Basically i reckon consciousness is chemical in nature and changes accordingly.

I'm still awaiting the discovery of thought molecules...

[ajna]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13804613/

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/10/psych...h.ap/index.html

it's good to see this is finally considered newsworthy!

Edited July 11, 2006 by ajna

[devance]

I found hallucenogic experiences to be too much stress.

Wasn't spiritual for me.

What I like'd was the afteraffects for a couple of days where the brain chemistry came back into balance.

Hashish is alot less stressful, the way to go for safe exploration in my opinion.

[Torsten]

The political implications of this are fantastic. The media is loving this.

For a list of articles on the study and the world wide response see here

[Torsten]

I found hallucenogic experiences to be too much stress.

Wasn't spiritual for me.

What I like'd was the afteraffects for a couple of days where the brain chemistry came back into balance.

Hashish is alot less stressful, the way to go for safe exploration in my opinion.

If you increase your serotonin levels to healthy levels before a hallucinogenic experience then the experience won't be stressful (if your settign is good).

[faustus]

The researchers used psychological questionnaires and found that 22 of the 36 volunteers had a “complete” mystical experience after taking psilocybin – far more than the four who reported this type of experience after taking Ritalin.

i wanna religious experience off ritalin too!

i've uploaded the published paper

EDIT: it's also interesting that under an entirely different research setting, a different rating scale, etc psilocybin would probably be observed to elicit the positive symptoms of schizophrenia.

psilocybin_spiritual.pdf

psilocybin_spiritual.pdf

psilocybin_spiritual.pdf

Edited July 12, 2006 by twix elbert

[simon_marklar]

Very interesting. This supports what I've always thought about spiritual experiences: that they are a total effect of neurochemistry and psychology.

how else would an expereince manifest itself?

According which meaning of the word "omnipotent" you subscribe to, God is subject to the laws of nature as much as we are, therefore he will have to use those laws to effect us in any way. This means that a virgin cant get pregnant and something has to trigger the "religious experience" be it drugs/trance danceing/fasting/meditation. I do not think that the trigger devalues the experience in any way, only the reaction to and integration of the exerience.

of course some people think that omnipotent means that god can do anything, but im not one of them.

[MORG]

how else would an expereince manifest itself?

Exactly.

Alot of religious people reject such reductionism. It puts the concept of the spirit in some jeopardy.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

It's just like the temporal lobes, its a matter of cause and effect. Does the chemical or the lobe cause us to have religious experiences or to be 'religious' or does god cause us to have the lobes or provide the chemical thus allowing us to connect or somehow communicate and percieve him/her? I'm inclined to think that said things are the causes but, I am a cynic.

[nabraxas]

Does the chemical or the lobe cause us to have religious experiences or to be 'religious' or does god cause us to have the lobes

---abit like "the chicken & the egg"

the fact that the wetware is hardwired to have these experiences means they must be ov some value though.

be observed to elicit the positive symptoms of schizophrenia.

....not to sure about that one. in a program on shrooms i once heard someone say that the "visuals" you see on psychedelics can never be termed hallucinations as only schizophrenics truely hallucinate.

i think psychedelics can give glimpses into the mind state ov a schizophrenic---the aural hallucinations particularly

eg: hearing snatches ov a conversation between two people on a bus & hallucinating that they are talking about you, maybe even "hearing" your name & address mentioned.....

that kind ov thing can happen on psychedelics, MJ & amphetamines, & most just shrug it off as an hallucination or paranoia--the difference w/schizophrenia IMHO is the lack ov an all encompassing world view to fit such an hallucination into. schizophrenics IMHO do have such a worldview & actively seek such hallucinations to back it up.

[foolsbreath]

Since it is stated that

while psilocybin appears to mimic the brain signalling-chemical serotonin, its precise action on mind function remains elusive

I don't know how you can say

This supports what I've always thought about spiritual experiences: that they are a total effect of neurochemistry and psychology

Morg?

It seems inconclusive and may really be a religous sacrament, It is nice to be able to think so, and some of the repeating imagery experienced by many different people must have some significance

Its a nice thought anyway

[devance]

"only schizophrenics truely hallucinate"

A excellent point. Except schizo aren't scientists and helpless and can't describe stuff so nobody knows.

I don't believe schizos hallucinate in a anyway similiar to LSD,

pscilocybin.

Obviously would take a brain scan, expensive for a long term study

I think might be a viral cause which no effert is going to be made to develop a vaccine.

So schizos are relegated to the sleeping in the underground, they are them but are not us.

Antiviral herbals would be the only resources.

[puffingfish]

While hallucinogens haven't caught on with today's youth, one critic hopes it stays that way.

CTV.ca, Canada

*lol*

[faustus]

I don't believe schizos hallucinate in a anyway similiar to LSD,

pscilocybin.

the major criticism is that LSD etc evoke mainly visual hallucinations, but it's auditory hallucinations that predominate with schizophrenia. but hallucinogens mimic the extreme shifts in mood and thought disorder

"only schizophrenics truely hallucinate"

as the body doesn't differentiate between endogenous and exogenous chemicals (e.g. LSD) i can't quite grasp the idea that only schizophrenics hallucinate. a hallucination is a sensory experience with no (known) stimulus. if you say that the stimulus is LSD, surely you could also say that in the case of a schizophrenic, it's excess dopamine?

[MORG]

Since it is stated that "while psilocybin appears to mimic the brain signalling-chemical serotonin, its precise action on mind function remains elusive"

I don't know how you can say "This supports what I've always thought about spiritual experiences: that they are a total effect of neurochemistry and psychology" Morg?

It seems inconclusive and may really be a religous sacrament, It is nice to be able to think so, and some of the repeating imagery experienced by many different people must have some significance

Its a nice thought anyway

I did say "support" and very deliberately avoided anything stronger. Yes, things remain elusive and like most good studies, the results here merely raise more questions rather than answers.

Yes, I am making a leap beyond the results of this study, however I think it's a leap that's still congruent with the results of this study.

[devance]

Its not a matter of refuting the detractors of hallucenogic experinces.

How much experince are they going to have or even want.

20 years of service and raising a family?

If not the common outlook no more funding.

If one was a genius that not a welcomed experience,

No ones needs a brainiac.

As apparently there are students, never do anything except for the person you will slave for.

Never think or express anytype of original thought as this will be taken as hostile action.

Patent any idea on one's own and never think your ideas are the property of the university, military or any ones elses.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

With schizophrenia the hallucinations are more delusional whereas I would say that psychedelics are more on the illusional side, not to say you can't be delusional everynow any then Delusions are harder to differentiate from reality because they are based in reality, rather than being something completely 'produced', like geometric patterning.

I think the term 'psychotomimetic' refered to the state the patient seemed to be in outwardly ie mimicing psychotic or schizophrenic behaviour, rather than what the patient actually experiences so in that sense I guess one could say that the patient was "observed to elicit the positive symptoms of schizophrenia."

[reptyle]

the egg came first. the thing that gave birth to it wasnt a chicken but some other sort of bird.

maybe schizophrenia is not being able to rationaly deduce the origin of the experince. bit like the people that get stuck on the chicken and the egg problem.

[PD.]

Except schizo aren't scientists and helpless and can't describe stuff so nobody knows.

That would have to be the most ridiculous comment i have read on this subject.

[nabraxas]

 

 

if you say that the stimulus is LSD, surely you could also say that in the case of a schizophrenic, it's excess dopamine?

that sounds good, but a tripper seeing deaths head visuals knows that their visuals are LSD induced. try telling a schizophrenic that their flat mate hasn't really been sent to spy on them, it's just excess dopamine...

Delusions are harder to differentiate from reality because they are based in reality, rather than being something completely 'produced', like geometric patterning.

--exactly, that ,i think, is the reason why "only schizophreniacs truely hallucinate", because only schizophrenics truely believe their hallucinations/delusions. Edited July 13, 2006 by nabraxas

[devance]

ttp://www.livescience.com/animalworld/041103_brain_usage.html

Ferret brain activity increased just 20 percent when looking at Keanu Reeves compared to looking at darkness, the study found.

When the lights were turned off, researchers expected that the activity would drop to zero, except for some random, "spontaneous" firing of neurons, explained study leader Michael Weliky from the University of Rochester. A brain region devoted to vision continued idling at 80 percent of full capacity.

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http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/05...n_internet.html

The research could help frame other studies of the brain's role in schizophrenia, Alzheimer's disease and chronic pain, Chialvo and his colleagues say.

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http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic601.htm

toxoplasmosis intersts me for some reason.

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Passive backseat demon engine

Now its your turn.

Hit and run won't do.

I don't want to do a William F. Buckly on you by explaining your viewpoint better than your capable of expressing it.

Come on son you can do it.