Do you talk about your psychedelic interests?

[SikkimRex]

On the way back from EGA our crew met a few freinds for a drink. They wanted to know about the conference/meeting, and i dutifully described its focus on sacred plants, ethnobotany, spiritual use of plants, and the trance aspect of the meet. I was quite careful in how I framed this discussion.

Afterwards, a friend who had come to EGA with me took me aside and said "You shouldent tell people that you are interested in this stuff?". I assmed that he was noting that there are potentially dodgy legal edges to my hobby, and that I should exercise due care- to which i agree of course.

But what he was really saying was "If you talk about this stuff, people will think you are crazy". That is, because it is very fringe, because people assume such an interest is self-destructive, is pathological, that people who might be interested in such things are somehow brain affected. This guy was a couple of years older than me and an artist still stuck on the dole, a position that I could just as easily had been if certain circumstances hadnt transpired. As an artist and a thinker and a person, he is a guy who I admire. I was sad that he saw himself so easily sidelined and ruled out.

I am aware of the kind of exclussive positions of Huxley, on the one hand, who thought that the use of psychedlics should be for VIP's, and that of Leary, that everyone deserves a go. I am not sure of where i stand on this (if its "secret business" or not), but I do think that there will be no shift in the broader perception of "drugs" unless people who use them or are interested or knowledgeable in them dont speak outside the community. Unless we go "well, hang on a second, there is more to this shit that you might think, for example (x)", we cannot expect attitudes to change. I am reminded of the gay "outing" that went on in Sydney in the 80's and 90's, where prominent gay people were outed by other gay community members, forced to ally themselves to the cause...

In the most recent Queensland Civil Liberties Council newsletter, the president noted that there seems to be an increase in "wowser-ism" in the Australian community, and suggests that the drug policy committee needs to be reformed. I agree, and can feel conformity and conservatism growing in relation to drug use, and most importantly, attitudes to it. But i think that we have to start at home, and talk rationally to friends about this stuff, to ensure that they can at least perceive resons why people are interested in drugs, and why they might feel it is their right to be so interested. For me, its about the right to the sanctity of ones body, and the right to not have that sanctity invaded against ones will by others. This includes ones mind. I am somewhat aligned with Leary's International Federation of Internal Freedom here.

So what do y'all tell your friends and loved ones? Do you think that there needs to be a public discussion not just about harm minimisation but also about the right to alter consciousness? Does the legal side outweigh your ability to talk broadly about this? Or are all of your mates just into entheogens anyway? Is this public or private business?

[themagicmushroom]

at the risk of sounding flippant... yeah, sure? why not? The only way things will change is if we make a point of educating the "general populace" (within reason).

If iI come across as an intelligent, thoughtful, well spoken person (theoretically ) with well thought-out concepts when (for instance) my family (grandparents, etc) challenge my "drug abuse" it puts them on the back foot and forces them to reappraise their reality. ie, "wow, hes not a junky, in fact, he seems happier and healthier than I ever was..."

This has more beneficial effects then just starting to deal with the taboos surrounding drug use. It also causes ppl to re-appraise other things in their life. kinda like, "my LSD use is disolving your preconceptions"

a little bit of acid goes a looOoOOooOooooOOoOOong way

changing the world, one reality at a time yeah?

I'll post more when I've had some sleep...

[SikkimRex]

A little acid DOES go a long way, its true. I remember a time of my life when there were only 2 types of people, those who HAD and those who HADNT. And you didnt have to worry about the former, and the latter were a write off... You can never UN-TAKE acid - you are a different person after it. I knew a frustrated academic who once yelled at some recalcitrant students "you guys need to take some acid - dont come back and talk to me til you have"... needless to say he ended up at teh headmasters office..

Edited July 1, 2006 by SikkimRex

[themagicmushroom]

*bursts out laughing*

classic.

he keep his job?

[apothecary]

So what do y'all tell your friends and loved ones?

I try and tell only the truth of what I know. Usually this means correcting someone in the middle of a conversation about something psychoactive (not nescessarily psychedelic...e.g. caffeine or nicotine).

At my last job, this led (honestly) the whole office to defer any questions of drugs/neurochemistry to me...often I didn't know myself and would just do research until I could answer. Questions on things like endorphin release during morning jogs, SSRIs, and then the opposite spectrum would be things I would bring up during lunch such as the effect of Ibogaine on methamphetamine or cocaine addicted rats (and why would such a chemical be illegal).

Do you think that there needs to be a public discussion not just about harm minimisation but also about the right to alter consciousness?

Yes. I would say that unfortunately, to a large degree, conditioning has worked and many people simply do not want to hear about harm minimisation (fucking junkies deserve to die anyway) or the right to anything (who needs rights when we have the government to take care of us!).

Does the legal side outweigh your ability to talk broadly about this?

Hell no.

Or are all of your mates just into entheogens anyway? Is this public or private business?

Many of my (off forum) friends know what mushrooms and acid are, and some have even partaken (usually the ones that have travelled abroad). Because of this prior experience, some have an appreciation/understanding when speaking of other entheogens/research chemicals.

To some who don't know, things like hallucinogenics are just inconceivable. You can say you are tripping, but it doesn't mean anything to them, you may as well say you are high (they understand that ).

[Rev]

So what do y'all tell your friends and loved ones?

for all the reasons above

As little as possible

(except friends who know, then i talk about it alot)

To most people im just a guy who seems to really like gardining and plants

any new fanatic will go evangelical

noobs can be cute, but also highly annoying, but we cut them slack - just like young lovers

till they realise that people only hear what they want to

you cant force ideologies down people throats in a healthy way and many people will resent you if you do

And being a good person is not the same as being a switched on person. they are not linked.

There are plenty of switched on bastards and also oblivious but truly good people.

so theres no sense in elitism.

similarly increasing knowledge of the flip side of consciousness doesnt necessarily make you better able to cope in this world.

again there plenty of switched on drama queens with tragic lives and likewise oblivious people with stable temperment and happy lives.

so theres no sense in preaching 'The way' like an apostle or fresh graduate

Now i have experienced i dont want to live like i once did

this form of living and this world view guarantees nothing exists in simple binary

adepts of Altered States of consciousness are not saints, nor are they apostles

what they are though is real, and not archetypes or fabrications like the comparators.

so whilst i find, for me, that trying to be a better person and a better tripper turn my life experience from 2 dimensional to 4 dimensional , i dont think there any point in trying to explain it to people who dont already have an inclination. and even if they do - go easy - itll do no more good in the long term than assisting a chick out a half opened shell. Its all about self realisation of your identity and destiny, unlike organised religion which dictates that to you.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Rev

[alkatrope]

It all depends who I'm talking to.

If the person I'm talking to is open minded then I generally won't hold back too greatly.

But there are many people I couldn't tell anything, for I know they would think differently of me for it. (yet some'll take amphetamines all the time and in their mind that's ok )

[-YT-]

I Agree Largely With what Rev has said. I think we should choose to simply show people whatever we care too show them, and try not to reveal too much. I know all about the noob thing tho LOL At my last job i made the mistake of trying to tell everyone there about plants... Not the best move in the end being viewed as an unstable flakey hippy type who thinks the keys to conciousness/identity are contained within plants..

Nowadays i do have alot more people with which i can discuss such topics at length and with mutual understanding It is true though people only hear and see what they want to.

[foolsbreath]

I generally keep discussions in terms of the medicinal side of ethnobotany. Most people don't realise the wealth or history of herbal products.

Lots of the plants with mind altering properties also have properties beneficial to our health, not to mention the antimocrobial, antiviral and immunomodulating properties many many plants hold

If the shit were to hit the fan oneday and modern medicine was lost through the failure of that industry for whatever means, it is us who will then become the pharmacologists of the day.

Most people don't even know that the many of our modern medicines are derived from plants. I have a family member who has Parkinsons and herbal products are most successful at alleviating her symptoms.

If they show genuine interest up to this point, I may open up further discussions, but I have only one friend who I have had the confidence to openly discuss shaminism with.

[Torsten]

I talk about it openly. If the audience is unlikely to be open minded then I stick purely to the science of it and would not really let on about my own experiences. If the audience is likely to be open minded then I will share some of my experiences, but only as much as I feel is not too challenging for the listener.

[Agamemnon]

Yes, more or less agree with Rev. When you talk with each individual you can carefully judge how far and how much you can reveal/share with that person's self actualisation and headspace. Dropping "hints" in the conversation which are dual paths/responses will soon elicit the level of like mindedness or diversity. With this mechanism neither party need walk away and say "he's fuc*** straight" or he's Fuc*en bent, or he's together in life's synchronisity..or whatever. In fact tactful connections can be made discreetly and honestly.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Agamemnon

[spiders]

To look at it from a slightly different angle, i work with a guy who makes nearly constant statements about his 'hardcore acid usage' and his '72-hour acid trips' and its kinda sad. I used to try and correct him when he made his usually hourly comment that flew in the face of the realities - (usually just ridiculous statements about his experiences or what a particular substance actually does)- but in the end you cant win a debate with someone who just makes up stories or says 'ive got a friend who did so there!' without letting a little more out of the bag than you'd like too.

At the pub after work one night he even told me that he knew Torsten and that they lived together in a buddhist retreat for a while. I soon realised that i could make any random name up and he would claim to have had some elaborate and 'always better than yours' tripper experience of some description with them.

So i guess ive got this guy so busy broadcasting his supposed 'expert' opinions all day at work for no apparent reason (this guy will interupt any conversation and literally grab the stearing wheel and take is somewhere else completely, such as a conversation about the cost of postage suddenly being a 10 minute lecture on quantum physics - or actually just this guy's idea of what quantum physics is rather than anything that conforms to reality) that i have never really felt the need to discuss it with people at work.

This guy is an example of why sometimes its better to just quietly go and experience these things and talk about them far less... ;)

Edited July 3, 2006 by bluemeanie

[Pelinster]

Aren't know-it-alls a total pain in the ass! Especially when you know more about the subject they are preaching to you about and have to just keep your mouth shut and wait it out. I get that a lot in the industry I work in.

Actually, I used to be a bit of a know-it-all. Especially when it came to drugs (which in my opinion used to be meth, smack and coke). I used to spout things that I had been told by other know-it-alls. Like how trips were really a combination of harsh kitchen chemicals just toxic enough to make you trip and just not toxic enough to kill you. Shrooms used to be strychnine.. Etc Etc.. I think you get the point -

That was a while ago now and more of a product of my childhood and a crazy couple of years as a teenager.

When I first got into entheogen's and plants I told a lot of people about things I really shouldn't have. Basically, anyone who I encountered who seemed to be relatively intelligent and have an open mind I would spill my guts to. It is a power trip in a way I think. Now I have customers who are accountants, engineers and even bikers who all look at me a bit funny . I feel they are looking for the evidence of my 'drug abuse'.

I see this behaviour a lot in the IT industry. The guys who know the least are the ones that will be first to put their hand up. They are the ones who engage you in conversations so they can boast their skills. I actually think this is part of the learning process.

After hitting the opposite extreme - After going through a period where I was extremely secretive and would lie to friends and family to save being 'exposed' - I am now finally starting to find a balance.

[Tripitaka]

Oh how I,ve suffered those glazed over looks!

I certainly went through a partial evangelical phase where I felt I was some sort of Dr. Livingstone home from exotic travels and was utterly compelled to tell people of the amazingy discoveries and new frontiers that lay beyond.

I feel that old friends showed the most patience if ot out of curiosity or concern. These days this same group of old school friends holds me in the same energetic patterns and won't let me move on from their image of me as a herb munching tripper!! I have a dig at them and politely ask that they sign over the top paddock for experimenatl crop development.

I find it funny though that given any social situation where there are a group of people that generally dont have a great deal of experience in these can have their interest aroused through using some anthropolical underpinnings and interesting anecdotal stories of plant use (insert Voudon zombi powders here). Generally most people are accepting of alternate views of reality once all that ego stuff is removed and it can be put into some sort of context. People love context.

However in all sincerity I find that apart from a small group of loyal school friends that I don't tend to associate with non-entheogenic peolpe.

I think that is for several reasons, namely that those people of the plants display a sincere open minded that carries across all aspects of their lives and these are the aspects of peoples personalities that I find most attracted to. Some of the most meaningful and valid conversations have been in some way focused/initiated around plants or have used this common interest as a segue into more intimate discussion. Not that this does not exist outside of this interest, rather the "type" of person that is involved with the vegatal side of life are far more adept at dealing with energetic principles and this really carries itself in social situations.

I guess what I mean by this is that in any given social situation it is apparent that there is a rythmn that occurs throughout the exchanges of the people present and with those that are familiar with the use of plant sacrements that these exchanges of ideas are much freer and seem to have a more expansive environment in which to operate. The diversity of knowledge, possibilities and abstract thought can literally be tangible.

Certainly over the years the community has grown considerably as have the meetings of members of the forums. I think that the underlying sense of family tends to fulfil the need for information exchange and acceptance. It is humbling to think that you can travel up or down the coast and be well received by any number of amazingly intelligent people and "spill it" in some sense and be accepted when you do!

I certainly have made a more conscious effort over the last few years to make these forum connections real and meet people and it has had tremendous results on many levels the greatest being friendships and commradery. It fills the gaps for me and I certainly feel little of the psychological isolation I did ten years ago as a result! I look forward to more such meetings!