Lophophorae in Australia

[teonanacatl]

y not try nicotine or another toxic alkaloid

[Torsten]

I quite like the use of nicotine for similar purposes, however the acute toxicity of it is a real turn off especially if you have staff to consider. It also kills veritually everything else in the soil, which leaves a vacuum easily filled by more nasties.

we have done extremely well with predatory bugs over the last couple of years and I would like to continue along the same lines, unless I can get a preventive measure to work, which in this case seems much more likely.

[occidentalis]

I quite like the use of nicotine for similar purposes, however the acute toxicity of it is a real turn off especially if you have staff to consider. It also kills veritually everything else in the soil, which leaves a vacuum easily filled by more nasties.

Most specimen lophs are probably kept indoors or otherwise in fairly controlled conditions. Mealie bugs and scale appear to be about the most complex organisms that inhabit their soil. Does nicotine have an effect on microbes? Or are you concerned about other invertebrates?

[teonanacatl]

could try arecoline, im keen to try that.

[Torsten]

i really don't know about the toxicity of nicotine to microbes, but until I do I wouldn't use it widely. and yes, I don't like affecting other beneficial bugs.

I might try caffeine. it is highly toxic to some insects. maybe a soapy short black

[planthelper]

a few weeks ago i caught a catapillar in the act, he was eating several holes into the poor loph at all the areas where the first pups tried to emerge. obviously the skin folds located at those areas gave the insect a good starting point for it's endanvour.

i think visual inspection of your plants and cacti is one of the most effective tools against pests, as an early discovered pest is easier to controll.

if ones collection is very big this gets naturaly more and more difficult.

btw, super virgorous lophs seem to excist, i mean i grafted a few dozend lophs two day's ago and one specimen was much bigger, stronger and healthier than all of his colleges.

i hope his graft will not fail.

the focus of my loph work will be to create very virgorous growers!!

[Torsten]

PH, how do you visually inspect for root mealy bugs on a regular basis without seriously setting back the growth of your plant?

[planthelper]

i don't check for them at all, i was talking about pest's in general...

[M S Smith]

Say hello to my little friends. On small terra cotta pots you can shake out the whole rootball.

~Michael~

[in_spirit]

I know everyone here probably doesn't need this but thought it may interest you esp the last Paragraph on pest control!!!

GROWING TECHNIQUES

Cacti are easy to grow from seed. Many species will sprout within 2-3 weeks and grow into healthy specimens. Sow the seeds 2 1/2 cm. apart on the surface of moist cactus soil. Place in bright but indirect light at 65-85F. Beware of extreme heat which can cook the seedlings. Check to make sure the soil surface is staying moist. When the plants are 2cm or so (60-90 days) they may be potted up individually. Handle the roots very carefully and try to sink the seedling lower into the soil during the transplantation. Water is needed during warm weather, much less if it's cool.

When the seed leaves appear it is advisable to syringe them gently with a fungicide solution and to repeat this process several times since they are very susceptible to mold. Seedlings should not be potted until they measure at least 3/8 to 3/4" in diameter or in the case of cyndrical cacti, until they reach a height of 1 1/4 to 1 1/2".

The worst enemies of cacti are the fungal diseases that cause the stems and roots to decay in conditions of excessive humidity. If the roots are affected there is very little one can do since the disease has often attacked the inside of the stem first. On the other hand, if the rot sets in around the neck or any other external part of the plant there successful steps that can be taken to save the plant. First, it should be removed from its pot, washed and cleaned carefully with absorbent tissues to remove all decomposed material, all dead roots, as well as any part of the neck that is flaccid or obviously diseased. Cut it off with a sharp knife or scissors. All parts of the plant that were cut or scraped should be dusted with sulfer or preferably an antifungual powder to promote healing. Finally the plant is repotted in pure sand like a cutting and kept dry at a temperature of at least 64-70F. Limit the amount of water given to the bare minimum particularly in damp weather.

cacti have a incredible capacity for recovery after long periods of drought. If any type of scale insect appears on a cultivated cactus it is wise to paint the plant using a soft brush with a solution of rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and water permeated with nicotine (tobacco wrapped in gauze to filter out in solution). The alcohol will dissolve the waxy covering protecting the insect eggs and the nicotine will kill the larvea.

[SaBReT00tH]

Mexicali (horticultural_contortions/gollumscacti) you have a real nerve e-mailing me saying you WERE NOT going to send me the items on ebay that I'd won from you, saying you'd rather do business with someone else, since you were in a grumpy mood because I had complained about your SHOCKING communication and INCORRECT Item you'd mailed out in another sale. The thing I can't believe is that during the last 24 Hours you've just filed an ebay dispute saying I have not paid for the items which YOU REFUSED to send to me. Just thought everyone should know how shonky you are and that you STILL do sneaky spiteful things, even after I thought the matter and the thread had been closed. I really can't believe you.

Edited June 27, 2006 by SaBReT00tH

[DuG]

easy there SaBReT00tH, i've had some very good dealings with mex. And i don't think this is the right place to vent your frustration.

seeing all these lovely lophs is great. I just want to grow more of them now.

[SaBReT00tH]

Mexicali doesn't respond to e-mails or Private messages and seeing he started this topic it's the ONLY place to discuss his sneakiness and damaging actions upon his customers. ESPECIALLY when he had just filed an unpaid item dispute for something he e-mailed me saying he WOULD NOT send and wanted to keep himself.

Edited June 27, 2006 by SaBReT00tH

[teonanacatl]

this is not the place sabre. The only thing i can offer you both is access to EBA's trade dispute forum which is i think the best place to dispute it, only problem is EBA is F*CKED and new users can sign up. Also Sabre did you order off him again? if so then dont. I think you should both drop the subject, you win some you loose some.

[Rev]

EBA fuked?

deserves diff thread i imagine but im curious

ive found it slower to move along on topics and more prone to going down -but still thems strong words

[SaBReT00tH]

Hey Teo, NO WAY I didn't order off him again. This is in regards to 2 other cacti I won off him in the same time period I won the other cactus. I dropped the subject but he has filed this dispute and thus attempting to further instigating trouble which he has originally caused and subsequently continues to cause.

[teonanacatl]

The thing with eba is noone new can register and some old users cant log in. We cant fix it because eccles makes short sporatic visits far to far apart, the only other one who may possibly be able to fix it is chem but he is gone also. Hopefully when eccles logs in next he will give one of the active members full admin access and then we can get about fixing it. At the moment its kinda just struggling along like somone who has been shot, could die or could live just depends when the help comes.......

[Torsten]

Sabretooth - the fact that you took one thread off topic to air your gripe with mexicali was understandable, but to now do this to other threads is unacceptable. If you want your problems with mexicali sorted then start your own thread but stay out of other people's friendly and factual ethnobotany discussions.

Furthermore, if you read the other thread carefully you would now understand that in fact YOU made the mistake in the Lophophora ebay trade, NOT mexicali. I have not seen an apology or any other attempt at resolution from you.

If you want your problems aired and sorted out in this community then start your own thread, tell yoru story and provide thorough FACTUAL evidence. As you can see from your last misunderstanding, it was a minor misinterpretation on your part which started the whole debacle. That is not to say that other problems have the same basis, but rather I am trying to point out that your emotional and accusatory tirades in the end just left you in a poor light.

As far as this community is concerned you tried to dirty mexicali's good name in your last spat and now you are doing it again. If you want us to sort this out you have to present facts. And don't even think about continuing this argument in this or any other existing thread. Start your own.

[M S Smith]

In all the hubhub did everyone miss that big nasty root-mealie? Eeck!

~Michael~

[Guest Mexicali]

I don't like using toxins, so I will try to find a different way. There are a few.

Confidor is probably the least toxic substance available for mealy bug. But plenty people choose to use other things.

I am intrigued just like michael about how the confidor gets to the roots though. I know a commercial grower who soaks all his plant in a confidor solution once a year to make sure it gets to the protected domes under the rootball.

I use 4 drops Confidor Concentrate to 1/2 litre of water and spray. I spray again three days after to kill the remaining eggs. Confidor is not gonna harm the roots, so you can even soak the plant (give it its water requirements with confidor included). Have been doing that for years and mealies go away. I do this exercise twice a year on every plant

Detergent sounds like a great idea, however I doubt they would drown before the cactus does. So maybe a combo of pyrethrum AND detergent?

Detergents and methylated spirits are always options for mealies. I have employed them as well. I find that with confidor, I have to worry much less about mealy than I did when I used methylated spirits and detergents.

[Guest Mexicali]

Thanks for the photos Mexicali! You might find me either arguing against, or laughing about, the suggestion that fricii is a form of L. diffusa.

That's fine...people react in different ways to new information

Is all that could be offered to support this view is the single test by Habermann of a plant claimed to be L. fricii and which showed pellotine to mescaline concentrations similar to L. diffusa.

Not really. The plant's behaviour as it grows is reminiscent of Diffusa and not Williamsii. Much more sensitive to light than williamsii and just as sensitive as the diffusa.

Everything (location, flower, morphology) about L. fricii shows a closer relationship to L. williamsii than L. diffusa, with the exception of course being the Habermann test results.

Unsure about that, Mike....when you consider that the Diffusa is THE parent of ALL lophophorae. Diffusa is most likely the oldest species (evolutionary speaking), so all the other forms/varieties came from her . As far as morphology, the Fricii doesn't have as distinct rib-structure as the williamsii...sure, it has tufts, but the Diffusa Echinata also has long tufts like a williamsii. If anything, the Fricii's morphology resembles that of the Diffusa echinata more so than williamsii. Of course, morphology varies with location (as we know by visiting Mexico or looking at Kaktusy book).

A new test certainly would be in order.

I do agree with you 100%. The Kaktusy book needs an extension to it where the alcaloid content of the plants is stated. Have you considered asking Trout to do some tests and publish? I have the plants but am no chemist

It should be of interest though to know that L. decipiens, a plant that that comes from the same immediate region and is pretty much the same as L. fricii with some minor variability from their particular niches, has been shown to have pellotine to mescaline concentrations similar to L. williamsii.

The 'decipiens' is not really a different plant. All research points to it being the result of natural hybridization in cultivation. I believe its the result of having all the different forms and varieties in the same place (greenhouse) and the insects do their magic. It seems to be BETWEEN species or forms, hence its williamsii appearence, fricii flower, diffusa-resembling pellotine contents and so on....plus the fact that decipiems all look somehow different toeach other points to hybridization in cultivation as well. Finally, the fact that you can't find Decipiens in habitat also points to it being a hybrid

WE NEED MORE RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~Michael~

Edited June 30, 2006 by Mexicali

[M S Smith]

That's fine...people react in different ways to new information

Actually either my arguing against or laughing about the information is not because I see it as “new information,” but rather information that is both old and incorrect.

The plant's behaviour as it grows is reminiscent of Diffusa and not Williamsii. Much more sensitive to light than williamsii and just as sensitive as the diffusa.

As far as morphology, the Fricii doesn't have as distinct rib-structure as the williamsii...sure, it has tufts, but the Diffusa Echinata also has long tufts like a williamsii. If anything, the Fricii's morphology resembles that of the Diffusa echinata more so than williamsii. Of course, morphology varies with location (as we know by visiting Mexico or looking at Kaktusy book).

L. fricii of any Lophophora species/variation is not reminiscent of L. diffusa due to light sensitivity, as this plant exists in the hot and barren low elevation flatlands to the north and east of Viesca, including the dry Laguna de Mayran washbasin. Also in its growth morphology, and flower there is much more similarity to L. williamsii than to L. diffusa, this latter plant having white flowers and diffused, almost non-existent, rib formations, this regardless of tuft growth that varies greatly within both L. williamsii and L. diffusa. Certainly there are L. fricii that lack the almost conical tubercles common in many representatives (and bear similarity to descriptions of L. decipiens), but one certain feature of L. fricii that distances it from L. diffusa, and puts it closer to both L. decipiens and L. williamsii is it heavy bluish/white frosting (glaucescence).

.... when you consider that the Diffusa is THE parent of ALL lophophorae. Diffusa is most likely the oldest species (evolutionary speaking), so all the other forms/varieties came from her.

I wouldn’t be so certain that L. diffusa is the actual “parent” of other Lophophora species simply because it is reputed to bear more “primitive” features than the others. L. diffusa did not get caught in a time warp and remain outside of the evolutionary process and without developing new means of adaptation since the original “parent” was split on the evolutionary tree.

Have you considered asking Trout to do some tests and publish? I have the plants but am no chemist

I haven’t asked anyone to do new tests on L. fricii, but as I said L. decipiens is with great probability its sister species/variation and has been shown to have mescaline to pellotine concentrations like L. williamsii. L. diffusa’s mescaline to pellotine concentrations are the reverse to L. williamsii. L. fricii’s single test by Habermann gives indication to me that he either tested L. diffusa or L. koehresii (L. viridescens). I certainly look forward to any future tests on L. fricii, but until that is had I will maintain that L. fricii is a subspecies of L. williamsii bases upon the information I have provided here and elsewhere, regardless of the Kaktusy article of which, though I haven’t read, suspect is relying little hard evidence to support its classification as an L. diffusa relative.

The 'decipiens' is not really a different plant. All research points to it being the result of natural hybridization in cultivation. I believe its the result of having all the different forms and varieties in the same place (greenhouse) and the insects do their magic. It seems to be BETWEEN species or forms, hence its williamsii appearence, fricii flower, diffusa-resembling pellotine contents and so on....plus the fact that decipiems all look somehow different to each other points to hybridization in cultivation as well. Finally, the fact that you can't find Decipiens in habitat also points to it being a hybrid

I don’t think L. decipiens and L. fricii are far removed from each other evolutionarily, and I could possibly support them both as being some sort of hybrid at their beginning, but these two species/variations do have their own growth habitats and ranges apparently without the inclusion of L. williamsii. So even if they began as a hybrid with another genera they are currently represented in nature and cover their own ranges that they deserve their own classification as some sort of subspecies or variation (L. williamsii subspecies in my estimation) and not simply to be regarded as “hybrids,” particularly since this “hybrid” has altered to such a degree as to maintain some sort of independence without reversion while continuing to evolve independently as a population.

I'll continue to await findings that are persuasive before altering my opinions. As it stand I find nothing persuasive that L. fricii is more closely aligned to L. diffusa rather than the geographically closer L. williamsii. To date the only information in support of this relation that is anywhere close to strong is Habermann's chemical results, findings that neither provided collection data, a herbarium deposit, nor photos on the actual plant examined.

I would certainly love to see scans of the Kaktusy article, and bibliographical infromation, regarding L. fricii if anyone has the means to provide them.

~Michael~

[teonanacatl]

as far as i remember from hort the detergent is to allow access to the mealy through its waxy coat and the metho is what kills it. Adding detergent to any mealy killing concoction sould work better. Perhaps try ethanol rather then metho as the damage could be caused by the bittering agents.

[strangebrew]

Adding detergent to any mealy killing concoction sould work better.

Yep, on the packets of Confidor granules they recommend adding some wetting agent to the mix as well.

I spray again three days after to kill the remaining eggs.

You sure that's correct? On mine it says to spray 3 times, 2 weeks apart. I've always assumed this was to allow for any eggs to hatch.

Confidor whups mealy ass!

[Rev]

I would certainly love to see scans of the Kaktusy article, and bibliographical infromation, regarding L. fricii if anyone has the means to provide them.

i think we all would

if somebody goes to the effort of finding and scanning

then isnt it as easy to let us all download a copy?

same goes for any of this stuff

i have to say a big thankyou to you mr MS smith for the hybrid lophophora article

put up in similar circumstances