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Make soldering / brazing torch system without gas bottles to create


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#1 ghosty

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 04:03 PM

I guess here is OK to place this water / hexane soldering system that might help others to create their choice of natural / cultural arts. Below is some info on my system as requested =)

 

It runs on the electrical splitting of water and uses hexane to control how reducing or oxidizing the flame is.

In no order..

 

 

Attached File  smith little torch 2 to 7 tips.JPG   64.31KB   0 downloads  My Smith torch. Tips 2-7.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit bottle bubbler.JPG   79.74KB   0 downloads Inside of the bubbler bottles showing the gas output port and the bubbler hose input.

 

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit bottles 2.JPG   93.34KB   0 downloads  This is just shot of the bubbler's.

 

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit bottles.JPG   103.38KB   0 downloads Another shot of the bubblers.

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit bubbler gas dispersion head.JPG   58.64KB   0 downloads  This you may have trouble finding (like all parts) It's called a "sintered pnuematic muffler". I could only find this searching from ebay in america (like all the parts) as they didnt come up in worldwide search from ebay australia.

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit check valve.JPG   70.87KB   0 downloads  These are just the normal type of check-valve, the type that looks like a long threaded nut. It's sealing ring, like all in this unit was treated by soaking it in "scotchguard". is that what you call it?

This part is important. it prevents pressure issues between the two bottles and their respective lines. Also, this prevents gas vapor pressue (from your fuel) from pushing back fuel into the lines, and the dangers that come with such issues.

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit current temp setup.JPG   157.79KB   0 downloads  This is how it looks at current.

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit fron.JPG   171.24KB   0 downloads

 This is the torch unit from the front. Has to have "funky"plastic cut-out installed yet (if i bother).

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit gas line splitter.JPG   161.75KB   0 downloads Here you can see the HHO (hoe gas;) line splitting into two as they feed the gas pressure regulators leading further to the check-valves and bottles.

 

 

 

 

Attached File  torch unit gas out flashback.JPG   89.21KB   0 downloads In this pic, we see the sintered type flashback units on the gas output lines. these are my pre-output protectors.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit gas out mounts.JPG   74.55KB   0 downloads This picture shows the mounts for the torch end. They are stainless threaded weldable inserts.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit gas output.JPG   101.65KB   0 downloads These are the output protections. 3-part protection with built in gas cut-off valves. The smith torch ends connect here.

 

Attached File  torch unit gas production output and release gear.JPG   81.61KB   0 downloads This is the stuff used from the gas generator (water splitter) to the torch unit. pressure regulator (must be updated to dual stage). Has gas release and flashback (sintered) also.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit gas regulators.JPG   98.51KB   0 downloads Just a shot of the gas regulator mounted.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit high grade solvent seal.JPG   84.11KB   0 downloads High grade seal replaces the shite one. it too has undergone the treatment with scotchguard.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit inside view bottle off.JPG   106.05KB   0 downloads This is inside unit. To show how the system is put together.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit mud map.JPG   98.86KB   0 downloads This is a mud-map of the system.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit open.JPG   113.36KB   0 downloads Inside the torch unit.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit shit gas production unit.JPG   77.65KB   0 downloads Perhaps best to avoid this rubbish. water splitter (china flame polisher) on at 14 psi, off at 24 psi.

 

 

Attached File  torch unit.JPG   90.75KB   0 downloads Torch unit. 

 

 

 

Was going to house the thing in real metal, but used what i had lying about. made all frame from heavy guage steel, it weighs a ton.. then decided it was so safe, so very safe it didnt need all that heavy body too.

 

 

Edit - gas water splitter is 150 liter / hour at this time.


Edited by ghosty, 18 April 2015 - 04:06 PM.

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#2 ghosty

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 04:34 PM

I will try to take a video soon for those that are not yet familiar with the "smith little torch" (AVOID CHEAP COPYS). It boggles the mind at just how small a flame you can use on tip#2. it's like 1/4mm - 1mm thick and 1mm- about 50mm long =) Hot enough to melt platinum, small rocks, quartz etc. etc.


Edited by ghosty, 18 April 2015 - 04:36 PM.

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#3 Amazonian

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Posted Yesterday, 08:19 AM

I would really like to see some of your craft ghostly. :)
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#4 teonanacatl

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Posted Yesterday, 08:38 AM

Making tools is Ghostly's craft by the looks of it! Beautiful work!


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#5 Amazonian

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Posted Yesterday, 08:46 AM

Making tools is Ghostly's craft by the looks of it! Beautiful work!


Lol, yes, true that.
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#6 Sally

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Posted Yesterday, 09:09 PM

I've got to admit I've never even heard of this type of welder before, sorry if my questions seem a bit naive.

 

So you stated in at the start of the post that it's a hydrogen/hexane device and the hexane is to adjust the properties of the flame but there's no more specific mention of the hexane after that.

 

Am I correct to assume the hexane is in bottle marked as fuel ?

 

Can you weld aluminium or stainless steel with it or would require an addition feed of an inert gas to prevent oxidisation ?

 

Do you have any specific need for it that can't be fulfilled with other types of welders for a lot less money?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely intrigued by the device it just seems like an expensive way to build a better mousetrap.


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#7 ghosty

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Posted Yesterday, 10:31 PM

Sally, Some really great questions there, Thanks. Let me attempt to answer them for you.

 

"Am I correct to assume the hexane is in bottle marked as fuel ?"

 

Yes, this is correct. Given the Gas produced by splitting water is going to be 2 x hydrogen and 1x oxygen and that hydrogen will pass through most things and is highly reactive, and in the presence of oxygen even more-so. This gas is / was known as "detonating gas". Pure oxygen on the other hand will explode when mixed with oils under pressure. We want to use a light hydrocarbon, or alcohols. The fuel gas used (in my case, currently the best i have found, is hexane) is placed into one container and and that container goes to the fuel hose on your two gas soldering torch of choice (specific to your needs). This now, provided the "solvent" / hydrocarbon is light enough will have decent vapor pressure at room temp, and come over with the hydrogen / oxygen blend. Acting now mostly as fuel gasses often used with 2 gas systems. This flame however, like you will find on any such 2-gas welding system, is too cold to do much with, and realy is only good for laying carbon down etc. With the other container marked "water / nothing, gas / air" or some such is left with nothing. This bottle acts as a pressure storage and pressure buffer for the "oxygen" line on your torch system handpiece. it is not oxygen either though, It is 2 parts hydrogen / 1 part oxygen (browns gas) as is being pumped into the fuel bottle. Thus one can adjust the "bottle pressures" to suit the torch, flame tip or job at hand, like you would with your bottle regulators. You now have full control on both flame size and it's nature, oxydizing or reducing, reducing is what you will want for most tasks.

Only now you dont need bottles. (save mega$$$)

 

Where i live, and using only motorcycle as transport. I'd have huge cost's in transport of bottles and the rent id have to pay on them. some $17.90 per month, per bottle, just to have it sit there. transport as the gas cost on top.. ouch (this would mean the whole business would not be viable) plus the dangerous of having a bottle of a gas commonly used that is the gas equivilent of TNT. No thanks..

Alcohol sucked, solder didnt flow to good under borax. not reducing enough. methanol, Dont wish to burn that in a vented room... most "diggers products" whilst not only many having labels that differ along with their price to $8.00 a liter, are the same frigging thing (australian business symptom) plus loaded with parrafin oil. remember my concern with oils? so, wanting pentane but only at lab-supplies, ultr-pure reagent grade $90.00 liter no thanks, defeats the purpose. so, hexane it is.

 

The fuel must have narrow boiling range. Really narrow. otherwise the flame characteristics are not stable while you work. at least not for long, and the reducing properties also change, f*ing things up. Rang australia's biggest petrolium distributer, they didnt even know what pentane is! had to spell it for them, so they could look it up on google! (another australian pain) pentane?? really?? bloody hell.... OK  Didnt ask for steak, or chips, perhaps they make some good ones? so yeah thats that i guess. Hexane is very dangerous in some aspects, requiring masks etc when filling. Not wonderful in many ways.

 

"Can you weld aluminium or stainless steel with it or would require an addition feed of an inert gas to Can you weld aluminium or stainless steel with it or would require an addition feed of an inert gas to prevent oxidisation ?"

 

Great for aluminium and i guess most it's alloys. but keep ya hydrocarbons comming. bit too hot with little too much hydrogen and the thing starts going thermite on ya =( fire and serious vision threat.. I do stainless and plumbing type work easy. no problems. Bear in mind this gas is round 2 parts hydrogen.. This gas has known issues with welding ferric metals. embrittlement. right away you can see this is not going to do some work (SAFELY).

"prevent oxidisation?" Well, this is tough one.. This seem to depend on the "fuel" used. I dont know whats goin on yet either, It seems to deny science, or my undstanding of it. If one was to use mostly the Browns gas (HHO) it will cut right through thin steel, burns it so very oxidising hydrogen-like jet of a flame. this is what most use as a HHO torch. It WILL NOT SOLDER. It will however, burn stuff. These torch systems, i was to learn, have for some time been used for jewelry, mostly platinum as this torch has flame temps around 3500c but have been stuck in a time warp since only recently. What makes my system different is that i have split the lines into two bottles, each with pressure control to make the torch usful for practical aplications. Like mine =)

 

"Do you have any specific need for it that can't be fulfilled with other types of welders for a lot less money?"

 

Yes i do. This is why i built it and why you see it here =) many moons ago now (3 years something) I found myself in a possition to live out my child-hood dream job. To be a jeweler and work with precious things. but to take it further, using my creative flair and love of nature to further work for her. expressing her wonder in fine arts. using her materials. Bringing a sense of quality, pride, and fair pricing back to my beloved, de-railed country. In order to answer your question I shall have to break it down. "do you have any specific need for it that can't be fulfilled with other types of welders"? Now you know my needs, you will see that yes, of course there are. the standard gasses used for such work.

 

This is where part 2 of the question comes to shine, "for a lot less money?" NO, Not by a longshot! Not over time as short as 12 months. (see paragraph 2). I'm saving some $432.00 per year on bottle rent, not including gas costs and transport. My system, sits there, safe, and costs nothiong to do so =)

 

"Don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely intrigued by the device it just seems like an expensive way to build a better mousetrap."

 

With all due respect, there is only one person on earth that I'm aware of that could ask me that question. Thats the guy that built the HHO-BOX, in russia =) RESPECT.

This man used a transistor welder to make his units (drycell systems) with massive output. having welded by far the best tank design on earth! trust me, you wont find better.. yet... It only needs one check-valve to be PERFECT. His unit comes with the original welder circut and has output big enough for most sandard welding jobs (follow his design on dry-cell for BIG) that might suit your needs. keep in mind hydrogen effects on metals though...

 

In short, i saw a need to cut costs, entering a global market and did what i had to. This is why i spent the $$ and took some 9-9 months finding parts to built it. it works better than any other system i have used. and ive used a few. hexane is insainly reducing! like wow. copper oxide forms and pow, back to copper metal. silver doesnt react ;O

 

Hope this helps. Feel free to get in touch if i may help you with any further questions.

 


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#8 Sally

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Posted Yesterday, 11:03 PM

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Ghostly !

 

I can see where you are coming from now.

 

I remember reading about the Browns gas generators many years ago, I didn't make the connection for some reason - surely it's not the alcohol.

 

That's almost comical that a fuel supplier didn't know what pentane was - carbon chains like that are a quite simple to understand even for someone with a lowered IQ like myself. :wink:

 

I was thinking about the sintered filters, do they have to meet any specifications ?

 

Some of the old Victa mowers have sintered bronze filters on the fuel tanks/ fuel lines. I don't know if they'd be suitable for this application but they shouldn't be too hard to come by. If they meet the specs maybe you could clean them up in an ultrasonic bath.

 

Cheers mate  - cool post !


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#9 ghosty

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Posted Today, 12:00 AM

I was thinking about the sintered filters, do they have to meet any specifications ?

 

Not sure. I mean i recon they would if used for this purpose but they are just mufflers. given the varience in stainless steel grades and place of manufacture it would be very hard to have a standard id think. I didnt want plastic due to solvents etc. (all teflon lines) other than from HHO generator. I didnt want any platinum group metals (thats a given) not would i want much copper or nickel. these seem to be the most reactive to hydrogen, given what i could find online. most results were not of much use to me.

 It has been and remains to some extent guesswork based on limited info. Those mufflers i bought were like $2.00 each or less i think. they are all metal stainless steel. dont know the grade.and have threads in numerous sizes and steps. American ebay has em. they came from a guy who sells swagelok stuff. think the mower ones will be brass. I think there are grades that cant be used with some gasses from memory. mind you, some of my parts (such as the hose to thread addaptors) are chrome plated brass =(. So hard to find stuff worth buying anywhere.