mindperformer Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Iochroma cyaneum in flower: The psychoactive use of this beautiful and rare plant was discovered from Richard Evans Schultes (Iochroma fuchsioides) in the Sibundoy valley of Colombia. It can be found in the andine mountains at an elevation of around 2200m. The habitat of Iochroma cyaneum is also Colombia. The dried and fresh leaves and flowers are smoked, infused as tea or boiled. The shamans of the Kamsá in Colombia take this plant when they are confronted with cases, which are very hard to diagnose. Iochroma fuchsioides is used as an additive to ayahuasca and as a narcotic during complicated births and digestive problems. Curanderos from North-Peru use a Iochroma sp. (Contrahechizo) as additive to the San Pedro- brew. The intoxication is said to last for days... (?) In many Iochroma species, including I. fuchsioides, Withanolides were found, but no alkaloids like in other Solanaceae. The sedative Withania somnifera, widely distributed in Irak and India also contains Withanolides like Withaferine A, which has cholinergic and GABAergic effects... Jaborosa integrifolia has beautiful flowers and also contains Withanolides like Jaborosalactone B. Jaborosa integrifolia: Edited October 4, 2012 by mindperformer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 4, 2012 have you tried Jaborosa? Withania is one of our most popular sellers, but no one is interested in jaborosa - probably due to lack of knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 4, 2012 I didn't know that the genus DOES contain tropanes, because I've never investigated this special issue, I only believed C. Rätsch, who wrote this in the encyclopedia... I've never consumed Jaborosa... Jaborosa sativa is a rare medicinal plant in Brazil, Jaborosa cabrerae and J. reflexa contain antiproliferative Withanolides: http://pubget.com/paper/22325549/Antiproliferative_activity_of_withanolide_derivatives_from_Jaborosa_cabrerae_and_Jaborosa_reflexa__Chemotaxonomic_considerations Jaborosalactol from J. parviflora is used against breast cancer: http://thetartan.org/2009/11/9/scitech/nmr Anti-stress activity from Sitoindosides in Withania somnifera: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ptr.2650010108/abstract http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB91330842.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 4, 2012 I think my long-held misunderstanding about tropanes in iochroma is due to three issues: 1) when reading articles and books about alkaloids, when it comes to tropanes they always post a list of genera that the alkaloids are associated with. I am now thinking that they simply paste a list of solanaceous genera regardless of any tropane evidence in them, because iochroma is often mentioned. 2) One of the iochromas I grow I have sampled and not only does it effectively remove nausea, it is also very scopolamine like. This may well be due to the anticholinesterase activity of some of these withanolides. 3) One of the closely related dunalias gave me a strong tropane effect after chewing just a tiny amount. I may have misinterpreted this as some dunalias also contain nicotine which can produce a similar effect at the back of the throat. I really appreciate you setting me straight on this as it was just so completely wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) It seems plausible that the list you' ve read was simply pasted from solanaceae- lists, as I couldn't find any definite indications of tropanes in this genus, only possibility mentions... ...you're right, the AChE inhibiting activity of Iochroma can be a bit similar in psychological action as from tropanes, which I can confirm with Huperzine and Lycoris radiata- tincture. I found Nicotine containing plants have a kind of hot taste, but if they contain very little nicotine it can't be felt, like Eclipta alba, which also contains very little of it, but has a neutral taste. I don't know much about the genus Dunalia... Edited October 4, 2012 by mindperformer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dionysus Posted October 4, 2012 smoking a small amount of my iochroma gives very similar results to brugmansia IMO, i have never before sampled datura. ~2 pipes (mixed with a little tobacco) worth is smoked every now and then as a sort of substitute for other smoking 'erbs.i find a nice smooth smoke with a calming action, really mildly confusing / intoxicating. also been used against nausea during argyreia nervosa sessions to good effect. these activities were undertaken under the assumption of tropane presence and effects were relatively expected. i suggest taking care if anyone else decides to bio-assay this plant, i think there is reason to take as much caution as should be taken as with other solanacae Spp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogfrog Posted October 5, 2012 Awesome! My intuition has been serving me very well lately, just yesterday i was looking at this plant at the botanical gardens and i thought it seemed special so i got my partner who works there to get me a little cutting. I hope it takes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Was it Iochroma australe or a mongrelization of I. australe with I. cyaneum? There is a great variation in constituents... @ dionysus: the calming and confusing effects could be also explained by inhibition of AChE (reported out-of-body experiences from high doses of AChE-Inhibitors). The action against nausea can't be explained by AChE- activity because this agents actually produce nausea in high doses, where Scopolamine really acts against it... possible explanation: The active Withanolide in Iochroma does not only act as AChE- inhibitor, but also has an action on muscarinic acetylcholine receptors (Atropine and Scopolamine are inhibitors). The Withanolides in Withania somnifera enhance the capacity of cortical muscarinic acetylcholine receptors (M1-5) like Celastrus paniculatus and Smilagenin: Schliebs, R.; Liebmann, A.; Bhattacharya, S.K.; Kumar, Ghosal, S.; Bigl, V. Systemic administration of defined extracts from Withania somnifera (Indian Ginseng) and Shilajit differentially affects cholinergic but not glutamatergic and GABAergic markers in rat brain. Neurochem. Int. 1997, 30, 181-190. ...so maybe a slightly different structure of the Withanolides in Iochroma can result in an inhibition of the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors (instead of an enhancement like from Withania somnifera). Edited October 5, 2012 by mindperformer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dionysus Posted October 5, 2012 i believe a mongrel cultivar, known as 'plum beauty'., leaning towards cyaneum dominant genes i would say (what with cyan coloured flowers ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 5, 2012 I fully agree that there is no evidence of tropanes in iochroma. But gosh, they do feel very similar. Nicotine can be confusing. The hot taste appears to only be from freebase, but not from the salts. As saliva is variably alkaline it probably freebases nicotine as it is chewed in plant material. Nicotine sulphat does not appear to have any heat in it because the salt would not be freebased by the weakly alkaline saliva. Nicotine salts of weak acids such as malates, citrates or tartrates which would be present in plants may well freebase from saliva - albeit slowly. Duboisia hopwoodii appears to have most of the nicotine present as freebase, which is why it is so instantly hot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 5, 2012 Interesting, I didn't experience with nicotine salts, are there any indications that Iochroma does contain nicotine salts? If it does, we possibly have 3 different actions on the ACh- system... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 5, 2012 There is at least one Dunalia that contains nicotine and Dunalias are in the same chemotaxonomic group as Iochroma and Jaborosa.I have not seen any actual analyses of nicotine in Iochroma however. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 7, 2012 Dunalia spinosa right? Iochroma fuchsioides- flowers, dried: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 8, 2012 Dunalia spinosa right? Yes, I think that's the one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted October 9, 2012 iochroma spoke to me before I ever knew about it as an additive, I heard it loudly and then investigatred only to find out what it had already told me that it was a sacred plant. I have not tasted though. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 10, 2012 What did it tell you exactly? Have you been 'enchanted' by another plant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted October 12, 2012 damn I love it when you talk salt chemistry Torsten I find it one of the most fascinating parts of chemisty, so basic but with endless technicalities at the same time (no pun intended ) and much easier for me to remember and grasp than more complex neurological things. Thanks a heap Mindperformer, I too had a misunderstanding about this plant, really appreciate this discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WoodDragon Posted October 12, 2012 Dang, this thread depresses me. I had 4 or 5 different Iochromas in my nightshade collection but I lost most of the plants when my plant sitter didn't water them (or about three dozen other rare species ). So far I haven't been able to track any new ones down, and the Bot Gardens ripped out their Iochroma grandiflorum just before I went to slip a bit last weekend. Might have to visit the SAB shop... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindperformer Posted October 12, 2012 I know exactly how you feel, last year I had the same problem with a plant sitter... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
