VINS Posted October 19, 2003 hi, i am sorry to often talk here about the same thing but regarding the internet misinformation , i prefer talking only on what i know. this year will be the begining of a new age for poppy lovers ; tazmanian industry is begining to grow some true geneticaly modified poppy ! do we have to be pleased, i am really not sure...... at first and during the last 10 years they only grew some poppy which were modified by cross breeding. by using the best ps strain and some bractetum poppy they have created the famous taz, norman and his son. at the same time some est european have done the same thing and created the Przemko and mikalkos strain (hungarian) the Extaz and Saphir (pologne, if i am well remembering) another in france etc.... all this strain are taz look alike and are deverllopped for being alkaloid free, or thebaine type, or any other mix they could want regarding usage.(they also sometime use one strain for a different purpose than her first, for exemple; a alkaloid strain for seed harvest and radiography oil production) this is why nobody agree on taz quality, lot of seeds on the market are not the guenine morph type of taz they want. now, the taz industry is tryng to devellop the omg strain on trial greenhouse to test them before selling them on the market in a few years... so, happy or not by this news, try to think about seriously before sawing taz in your garden. ciao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 19, 2003 more detailed : The Norman strain was introduced in 1997/1998 season. This is the worlds first improved Thebaine variety and plant patents were applied for in all major producing nations. The improved varieties known as "Son of Norman" were released in 2000/2001 growing season, and also increased the production of thebaine by their introduction. Newer varieties will be available for production in 2003. Further improvement in the thebaine varieties is anticipated to be released in 2004. There is also a similar morphine -breeding program going on and the whole crop will be sown to new and better morphine producing varieties. Tasmanian Alkaloids managed Australia's first Genetically Modified poppy field trial in 2003. The trial was about 0.5 acres in size and was designed to test the performance of 80 different lines of genetically modified poppies. They were compared with their unmodified parents and current commercial varieties. The trial was performed to determine which genes in the poppy plant are important in determining the alkaloid content in the poppy plant. High yielding lines will be selected for work and development for possible commercial use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamingNagual Posted October 19, 2003 So this year my when Crazy gnome goes on his yearly harvest rounds he could dub this new one the "OH MY GOD" strain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 19, 2003 remember the frankestein story .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 19, 2003 and to proove how controversial i am (ahh, the human contradictions :D ), please save some seeds. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted October 19, 2003 imho- genetic modification is a worry. we have the technology & it's driven by business, a recipie for disaster? -i can see the point ov adding extra vitamins to rice, for example; but why they choose to follow that path w/the poppy, which a)-seems to have been providing enough drugs for the world market anyway & b)when the cheaper & "safer"(?) option ov selective breeding, has been so successful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 19, 2003 People: Keep all your old strains far away from this new genetically enhanced one... A friend of mine used to have this lovely almost Australian "native" cannabis strain which he grew for a long time. Then the new skunks and other super dope from Amsterdam came in and the old strain was lost forever. GE poppies... I'd be very wary... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 19, 2003 hopefully it seems that the stability of taz strain is also controversial and i have ever heard that the thebain trait could decrease with generation; a kind of revert to the origine... anyway i am pleased to see that there is an echo to my warning and that i am not alone who think seriously about saving the purity of olds strains. Gomaos, regarding your skunk story : i have noticed the same thing except that after a few years everybody came to see the few guy who continued growing the locals strain to request some seeds. they were bored by this sugar minth flavor and were looking for authenticity and habit to local growing conditions. it was the revenge of the guenine on the modified. unfortunatly when the target of peoples is drugs stuff, i am not sure we can trust them. hopefully, the entheo-communauty is here and this really give a sens to the biodiversity preservation vocation of this website. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 19, 2003 http://bio.bio.unibuc.ro/biochemistry/Enzi...050506-2001.pdf http://www.tasalk.com.au/growing/poppy_bulletin.pdf http://www.tasalk.com.au/growing/poppy_bul...lletin_2003.pdf this is 3 links about what was said, sorry i can't find the others, :confused: maybe sooner [ 19. October 2003, 09:27: Message edited by: VIN'S ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted October 31, 2003 Its a paradox that the new poppy strains from norman are now becoming the old strains and will eventually be in need of saving themselves! I think GMO poppies have a place. It is after all a lot more scientific than the old radiologically induced mutants - like comparing a pair of (gene) scissors to a shotgun blast That part i dont have problems with as they will be altering secondary metabolic pathways not as it sounds going transgenic. The problems i fear is in the loss of diversity particularly in quality. Much in the same way tomatoes could be bred square with 8 week lifespans and in a size to fit a fast food tomato slicer. This is all good - i mean what would we do without maccas after a night on the Turps and we want it to stay cheap but it doesnt reflect the full spectrum of use of tomatoes. Likewise the needs of the poppy enthusiast, the Turkish village grower and the needs of Glaxo-wellcome are not at all similar. the latter needs an agriculturally uniform variety grown with tailored fertilisers on prime poppy country with known yields leaning to Thebaine and specialty alkloids that will be harvested dry and solvent extracted.Th epoppy heads will all mature at the same height for easy mechanical harvesting The turk needs a number of varieties that cope with local soils, yield well over a range of climatic variation and do so with very little rainfall and fertiliser, latex flow and quality is important as it a predisposition to high morphine. Pod heights variable. The pods should go on to give a good amount of seed as a secondary cash crop And the home grower needs a poppy that gives the maximum yiled under pampered conditions and one that gives a very clean alkloid profile that stays constant over a longer period of time.Total yiled is very important as is flowers per plant and speed as few plants are grown. Aesthetics are also important with varieties of shapes and sizes being pleasing so all 3 are very different and so you cant expect another type of user to automatically act as a reservoir for the varieties you need as needs are so different. If we rely on private enterprise well end up with unaccessible genebanks of solvent extraction junk, if we rely on fragmented villagers well only see an eroding diversity of very variable hardy field forms. The BEST strains can only be kept going for us by us in our gardens year after year after year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted November 1, 2003 great challenge ! if we considere that a strain evolve regarding the growing conditions. how to save a strain if we modify it ? is ther some members who live in afghan like conditions for exemple ? anyway i am sure we will take care ! it is the best that we could do. quote: so all 3 are very different i agree quote: and so you cant expect another type of user to automatically act as a reservoir for the varieties you need as needs are so different. i do not agree. sab members for exemples could act as a reservoir of variety or maybe the seedring ps; your point of view on the different kind of growers is an over simplification. seed are not only for the next season but are a true product and there is more than 2 country involved in the poppy market (afghan, turkish, liban,hongary, bulagary, france,spain ,netherland for flowers,lot of indian country, canada, etc....)and all for different reasons. since i know you, i know that you know that. [ 01. November 2003, 08:07: Message edited by: VIN'S ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted November 1, 2003 Personally I prefer the "persian" (or non-persian) whites with multiple pods of good strenght, perhaps best suited to my area. The Tazzies were a little disappointing, yes a very fast crop, small, but also very fast gone. Persian whites just keep yielding. Also I'm very suss against anything genetically engineered... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted November 1, 2003 yes Gomaos, persians( or non persian but glabrum cousins :D i remember and know why you said that )are really great and the quality (just the desired effects)of the buzz is excellent.(and they are funny to grow because their green is different than the green of te other strains ) i am surprise because i recently talk to a man from persia (iran) and he explain me that there was a true war against drug in his country and really not a lot of known place for poppy. i hope (i am egoist but will not enter in a social debat on the life conditions here)that this famous and antique place for poppy (maybe the closest to the origine) will not lost is patrimoine and that they will continue keeping this strain pure (drug mafia are a hard pression). [ 01. November 2003, 07:58: Message edited by: VIN'S ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy Posted November 1, 2003 hey vin have you ever thought of coming to Ozz for a visit,if so let me know and maybe we can go and have a look in Tasmania together,harvest time down there is around January-February.what do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted November 1, 2003 i am surprise because i recently talk to a man from persia (iran) and he explain me that there was a true war against drug in his country and really not a lot of known place for poppy. Ha. i travelled through Iran in 1977, from the west (turkey) to the east(afghanistan) and together with East turkey, this was the worst country for travelling through. The customs controls were HORROR everywhere there where pictures of white tourists having been busted with drugs and how they hid them etc etc etc. It was very obvious that is was an absolutely totalitarian country. i don't think much has changed since, at least not for the better. ALL muslim countries are anti-drug, some will punish even for drinking alcohol. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islam as a religion is the equivalent to "national-socialism[hitler]" in politics. Very repressive! Nevertheless the bus driver (turkish) was on heroin all the time, and the rest of us on paranoia seeing all these smashed up buses on the bottoms of those multiple, never-ending cliffs. Also I am very sure that they still grow plenty of poppies in rural areas, and they would be of excellent quality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Undergrounder Posted March 17, 2009 hi,i am sorry to often talk here about the same thing but regarding the internet misinformation , i prefer talking only on what i know. this year will be the begining of a new age for poppy lovers ; tazmanian industry is begining to grow some true geneticaly modified poppy ! do we have to be pleased, i am really not sure...... at first and during the last 10 years they only grew some poppy which were modified by cross breeding. by using the best ps strain and some bractetum poppy they have created the famous taz, norman and his son. at the same time some est european have done the same thing and created the Przemko and mikalkos strain (hungarian) the Extaz and Saphir (pologne, if i am well remembering) another in france etc.... all this strain are taz look alike and are deverllopped for being alkaloid free, or thebaine type, or any other mix they could want regarding usage.(they also sometime use one strain for a different purpose than her first, for exemple; a alkaloid strain for seed harvest and radiography oil production) this is why nobody agree on taz quality, lot of seeds on the market are not the guenine morph type of taz they want. now, the taz industry is tryng to devellop the omg strain on trial greenhouse to test them before selling them on the market in a few years... so, happy or not by this news, try to think about seriously before sawing taz in your garden. ciao I heard that a new strain is now being released, called 'Tasman' (creative huh), which is a codeine only strain (like Norman is to Thebaine). Apparently it was developed through an advanced method of selective breeding, not GM, but details are sketchy and i wouldn't be surprised if it were GM. The benefits of Tasman are that in order to get or make codeine from normal poppies, a whole mess of dangerous and inefficient chemicals and processes are used. Tasman skips that problem, is better for the environment, yada yada. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
