"Alcohol Alternatives"

[gomaos]

I have now for a while been planning on writing a book on "alcohol alternatives".

I know that there's millions of alcohol addicts out there who have their head permanently stuck in an invisible cage which prevents them from being sensitive and perceptive and from leading a life that includes the possibility of being "happy".

For alcohol numbs all emotions, puts you into a stupid frame of mind and lowers inhibitions to being aggressive, also inhibitions to have sex, which can be a good thing but most the time it will be regrettable.

I'm not talking about "normal"folks here who can have one or 2 glasses of wine or beer a day because it compliments their food.

In low doses like that alcohol may even be beneficial for the body.

I'm talking about people who have to have their alcohol every day or say, their outrageous binge every weekend.

Long before alcohol starts doing serious damage to the body, it starts altering your mind in negative ways.

To be able to lead happy lifes we need to be able to be in tune with our environment, like the people we live with and the place we live in. (As is the most important rule for "trips": set and setting need to be right.)

Now alcohol clouds the mind and when taken on a permanent basis, we only perceive a small percentage of the real world, the rest is blocked out.

That's why older people who take alcohol on a regular basis appear to be stuck in the past, close themselves to new ideas and become "conservative". Hence the way to "a better world" is blocked.

I would knew countless examples for this if taken up on it, starting right with my relatives, some of which I am not even in contact with anymore, just because they are "dumb conservatives".

They are totally self-righteous, hate all other drugs excluding perscription medicines and hate all new ideas except when they are convinced by the authorities who do all the thinking for them since all their creative thinking has been retarded by alc.

I find it totally disgusting when those people come to me and try to tell me what is right and what is wrong, since are not even able to think for themselves.

My sister's husband even said in a conversation with one of my "hippie friends"

(a few years back which was one of the last times I had contact with him and my sister)

that "love was not necessary" for a happy life. The dumbfuck has probably never experienced happiness, and the two are one of the saddest couples I know, even their greed has helped them to quite a bit of money. They are living within the rules of society and just do what this society is made for: Work as hard as you can to make as much money as you can to be able to afford all the rubbish that society produces which keeps society spinning round and round, the good old treadmill syndrome.

And to keep most people doing just that, alcohol is the perfect drug: It closes your mind so you don't even realize you're in a treadmill. Or if you do, just drink more.

Now to get rid of alcohol addiction there a few ways: Join the alcoholics anonymous and succumb to their stupor, i. e. once I accidentally budged in on an "advanced" aa meeting and they let me stay and witness their dumbfoundedness, i.e. over and over regurgitating their stupid "12 steps" or however many there are... This is just duplicating the stupor of alcohol while in a sober state. Very much like Orwell's "big brother": Doctrinate the minds of people long enough and they'll believe that they see 3 fingers instead of five when you hold your hand in front of their face, just because YOU want them to.

Total control.

Or just go cold turkey and see how far you get. Most likely you'll end up with "wild turkey" again...

Another possibility is fighting alcoholism with psychedelics and other drugs, and that's what my book will be about if it ever gets written.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated....

[WarpedAstro]

Very interesting summary, I have to agree with you alcohol is very dangerous drug in some ways. But what is "alcoholic" is means? someone depends on grog to live or someone who just loves drinking in vast amounts?? My father who lives in tassie, drinks huge amounts of beers and wines every night when he comes home, but he doesn't get emotional, voilent, aggressive, or "very drunk" it just makes him sleep, I believe he's got very high tolerence towards alcohol, he always nods off before 9pm on the spot,(which was kind of funny when I was kid, played games, I would ask him questions and he will mutter funny strange mindless answers, and also it was perfect when I was teenager, I would wait until he nods of, and I will sneak off to a mate's place to have some cones/joints, then come back before he often wakes up about 2am in the morning then turn the TV off, then go to bed) I even asked him when was the last time you had a "grog-free" day, he doesn't even remember...which I reckon it was a very long long time, I think he drinks to shut off his emotions because my mother and father are seprated for over 12 years, but remain in good friends, I dunno, I never asked him that, never felt comfortable. I even asked my old man if he's impotent he said nah I'm fine, and he's 56 years old....interesting. Is this makes him "alcoholic"???

My mother and her partner, who lives in Rockhampton, love wines so much and they got over 200 wines in their collection, they easily drink about 3-4 bottles of top notch wines about 4-6 nights a week, but everynight in month of December, anyway, they are excatly like my old man, they have high tolerence towards alcohol, and they just nod off, they do get very merry after few glasses, chat emotional shit/thoughts then they get very sleeply, (which was perfect for me when I was teenager so I can sneak outside and have cones/joints), but they remind me of some sort of "atomic family" couple, they go to work, earn as much money, try to be "prefect", follow the law, keep their lives on track, and they are very anti-pot, drugs, etc... they know I smoke weed and shit, but they don't want to know, it's my business, whatever....does this make my mother "alcoholic"??? I find people who have drinking problem, they became so good at hiding it, because it's very acceptable in the society, and we just don't talk about it, it's part of the norm.

Even my mother and father brought me and my brother cartons of beer when I was 15 and my bro was 14, they often brought us a carton every weekend, sometimes when I think back, I'm like "fuck!, why did that happen??" Sometimes I wonder if parents "introduce" their kids grog early to get them "like" grog and hopefully they will stay away from drugs??,I thought it was "cool" my mates thought it was "cool", my parents even tolerenced me getting blind drunk now and then, even when I was 16/17, my mother/father (who are high income earners) didn't give a shit when I came home from college/school, and drink thru 6 pack of beers every night while I was doing homework, and passed Year 11/12 with high marks. I know fair bit of parents actually buying their kids grog...it makes me think why?? are parents getting paranoid?? or they are trying to "buy" their kid's "love" towards the parents??? like bribing? which could lead to alcoholism from there??? because it's so acceptable, and if parents find you drink to much, they will just say "oh darling don't be silly, just get yourself together" and just sweep the problem under the carpet. Goamos was right about how alcohol "numbs" their reality problems, etc...that kind of crap.

Now, I hardly drink grog because I gave up ciggies, and find hard to drink grog without ciggies, but I do love wines with my meals. I was heavy cannabis smoker, easily smoked thru an ounce of top notch prime hydro resinous potent buds in 2-3 weeks, and rarely get stoned, and about 2 years ago, I somehow find that pot starting to make me paranoid, makes me have strange thoughts, think shit, etc.. so I gave up smoking weed for a year now, and hope to keep that way, but I do still eat pot cookies/cakes every week, it makes me nice and calm and mellow. Maybe pot is just getting way too potent nowdays from cross-breding??

That's why I'm sticking to "other" drugs that I enjoy and only take them once/twice a fortnight, grog....is boring, dangerous, makes people go weird and emotional, (not all anyway, just the people I know.)

Better stop crapping on, its a big topic....

[gomaos]

I would certainly call your father and mother plus partner alcoholics, doesn't matter if you knock yourself out every night with beer or top notch wines. The only difference is in the money spent.

I have gone through stages like you described with your father, knocking myself out and going to bed at nine.

Of course there is a price to be paid: Go to bed early, wake up very early, probably like three am. You just lie in your bed and want nothing else but sleep, but no way.

During this period the mind is filled with totally negative thoughts, and if you do it all the time, your life will be very negative...

Plus the permanent diarrhea drinking alc every day gives you.

I recently read in another forum that 5meoDIPT does not qualify as a party drug because it gives many ppl diarrhea...

what a joke...hundreds of millions of alcoholics(I'm calling evryone an alcoholic who has more than 2 glasses(pots)of beer a day or the equivalent of every other form of alc.)put up with diarrhea every morning just for that stupid buzz...taking one(!) sleeping pill every night would would be way less harmful and almost the same.

Most alkies don't drink alc because they like it just because they're addicted to it.

[spiraleyes]

what you say is good gom.

looking forward to the book.

deffinatly needs to be written.

i think it has to do with music too.

i think music is a major creative force.

i notice this in myself especially in the last few years as i have become much more self aware.

if i dont constantly get new music to listen to i start to get bad anxiety.

like my life isnt going anywhere.

music really gets me motivated.

when you hear a track you havent heard in ages,it gives you that feeling from a certain point of time in your life, good/bad?

just that feeling.

but yeah,how many middle aged people you know still listen to the same old shit that they listened to when they were young.

i dont just mean the same type of music,but the actul same songs.

most of its stuff from the 60's 70's totally inspired by psychedelics.

but is played over and over by alcoholics and it means so much to them.

'HEY,SNAP OUT OF IT,MOVE ON MAN'

my point was,that conditioning and conserving that goes with alcohol

gets badly caught in a back loop with repeated tunes.

what do you think?

oh, and not to mention the fuck up of the plug-in drug.

what ever happened to wastl?(sp)

havent heard of him in a while,must be behaving himself

[gomaos]

Originally posted by spiraleyes:

i think music is a major creative force.

I totally agree.

if i dont constantly get new music to listen to i start to get bad anxiety.

I'm exactly the same. Even if I find a

record that was my personal No 1 hit 20years ago, and at the time may have I would have listened to it 100 times, I'll go: "Oh I've been looking for this one for 20 years..." and I'll buy it.

At home I'll put it on, and I'll think :"This is soooo great..." and I'll listen to it once, and the next day I've completely forgotton...

One month later I'll look at it and think: "Wow such a great record" but I can't be phucked to put it on.

In the early 60s they used to call good music "progressive"...

That's what I am, a "progressive music lover", which basically means it has to progress all the time, always new stuff...

but yeah,how many middle aged people you know still listen to the same old shit that they listened to when they were young.

i dont just mean the same type of music,but the actul same songs.

most of its stuff from the 60's 70's totally inspired by psychedelics.

but is played over and over by alcoholics and it means so much to them.

Totally right. I know many people of my age who are exactly like that. They love to listen to those old "drug songs" but save for their cannabis and alc they wouldn't touch acid or anything remotely related with someone else's tongue.

But drinking a bottle of rum almost every night is so cool...

If they could only "glimpse the truth"...

the alcohol keeps destroying the brains and livers until there's none left, but if they had the guts to take a trip it would probably activate their alcohol-numbed brain areas, most likely help against withdrawal symptoms and give them the possibility to a new beginning...

One bloke who was into acid 20 years ago, quite a lot as he says, answered my suggestion with: "I'd probably totally freak out, man, get panic attacks and such, I'd probably kill you..." (he's actually a good friend.)

Okay I won't be trying to help him anymore, no way...

'HEY,SNAP OUT OF IT,MOVE ON MAN'

my point was,that conditioning and conserving that goes with alcohol

gets badly caught in a back loop with repeated tunes.

totally true again.

That's why our world is the mess it is:

Too many people have closed minds, to many ppl are conservative because THEY ARE UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND PERCEIVE NEW BETTER WAYS.

That's the only reason most governments today are totally right-winged and conservative. If people could see the truth they would vote differently...

what ever happened to wastl?(sp)

havent heard of him in a while,must be behaving himself

No he hasn't really changed much at all, he's just given up drinking all that dwarf-draught, because it made him sluggish and stupid and he went to bed about 8.30 or 9 o clock and then woke up at 2 am in the morning, feeling totally like shit...

he is also managing his cannabis consumption to the point the he get's the maximum out of it, i. e. no binging.

He does like very much to try always new things, it appears to be similar to that "progressive music syndrome"...

Enough said....

[DaNozz Direct]

Gomoass, you did some pretty good posts there, it's pretty easy to see now where your stance on alcohol lies. Me, I'm not so anti-alcoholic as you.

I didn't think much about alcohol use when using it - just drink a six pack, wow, have fun, dooo. But once I started trying other stuff, I ended up on BZP at a pretty hallmark backyard pissup for Year 11s, taking my memories back to the same situations I experienced a few years back. I disagree with what I thought on that night - BZP cleared out the cobwebs so to speak, I saw all the cool-kids™ from a distance.

That's what drugs do - give you perspective. I wasn't functioning on society's plane - I was on my own plane, looking up/down (I don't believe I'm higher than society, just detached from it). I saw the fat guy in the corner, in the bushes, huddled against the garage, blind drunk on spirits. I won't be too dark, there were also a few guys loving it, running round, enjoying it all.

There was also a slightly retarded dude who'd done 10 straight vodka shots, and was now barfing all over his front over by the fire. I can sorta see how the BZP made me think that alcohol was bad then. I saw alcohol as having been the one BAD drug - that it was somewhat wrong !?! Also ciggarettes.

After using BDO - still thinking that there was something wrong with alcohol, I had to give it up at a point, and that gave me even more perspective. I imagine giving the drugs up for a period let me recover what I had gained from those experiences. It was more like I was using just because I thought I should, because I thought I wanted to, so I should do it - not for the real reason, that I want to GAIN something from them.

I don't know when it was, but I saw that there was no right or wrong - no dividing line, nothing saying you can't run over some guys leg, but you don't run his leg over because it'll hurt him. Nothing's black or white, it's all grey, and it's yours for the taking. And I saw that there was nothing wrong with alcohol - it's impossible to express this sentiment, using society's language to say it means I have to distinguish it from nothing, further enhancing the black and white. Hell, these letters aren't grey on a grey background, it's all black on white.

I don't even know if I'm saying anything here that makes sense, but hopefully something entertains you Gomoass or spiraleyes. Maybe what I'm trying to say is as much as alcohol can seem a bitch, it's nothing more than CH3OH to me. Those elements don't hate you - that molecule doesn't want to beat you up, or drown you in a pool.

I just remembered I wanted to mention that I do like the link between 1984 and alcohol, really I like to see it compared to life in general. Maybe Brave New World says it better with the whole "soma" thing, but I haven't read it yet. Just how the proles live a "bad" existence, yet they're still the ones having the most fun ! I've taken the idea onboard that I just want to live life for fun, not for the rat race, not for the Celica down the road, not the office in the corner overlooking the highway into the city, just the serotonin of it all.

And as much as the Party thinks that the proles have it bad, that they live in squalor, that some dude had his hand blown off by a bomb and it had to be kicked away, they're still having fun. We've read they all gathered in the bar, discussed the lotto results (alright, I'm totally screwing the books message over. Maybe) but those using alcohol may seem unhappy from OUR perspective, they're having fun ! Think of how fun it is to escape the hangovers, the cravings, and just drink it all off ! That's what I want to live for ! Maybe not along those lines, but the escapism of it all can't be bad™ if you're having fun while doing it.

Obese people look fat from the outside. They look unhappy not being able to press telephone buttons and having to prevent nuclear meltdowns (how funny was the Simpsons !?!) anyways they're not thinking like that when they're down at the Cheesecake Shop, they love eating food ! It tastes great. I reckon food freaking rules. Sugar is the chonkiest thing ever. And that's enjoyment !

So to sum it up, maybe I'm saying it's all a matter of PERSPECTIVE. And if you don't live your life to have fun, you've denied yourself the one thing that can make you feel special. Hell, the dude trapped in the dead end job at a mechanics factory, or even the guy who drives the Merc who runs in the rat race, they don't look like they're having fun from our perspective. But here's another perspective - the Merc dude loves to buy Merc's ! He loves to get the latest Armani suit ! Like the dude in Fight Club, he lives for the next Ikea catalogue. There's always another corner to look around, and you'll never be able to know what the dudes around it are talking about until you go up and talk with them. Peace out bruvvoi's.

[gomaos]

Thanks for your contribution, Nozzle Boy.

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to say: ALCOHOL IS AN EVIL SUBSTANCE, because there can't be evil substances.

Substances are substances, it is the way we use them that makes them good or evil.

Cyanide's not evil, it's used for many beneficial purposes. If you consume it, it's your own fault...

As I said somewhere in the beginning, if you're one of those people who can have a couple of beers or whatever and then completely forget about having any more, then alcohol is not a problem for you.

For example, I could smoke a joint or pipe with heroin without the urge of having more... (of course I wouldn't since this is illegal)

anti-alcoholic as you.

BZP cleared out the cobwebs so to speak, I saw all the cool-kids™ from a distance.

So you agree that even with your short-term use at young age alc had already produced "cobwebs", i. e. started to cloud your brain on a long-term basis and you needed BZP to become aware of it.

Maybe Brave New World says it better with the whole "soma" thing, but I haven't read it yet.

You should, you should. It's at least as good as 1984, and anyway to me Huxley is probably the best writer ever.

Just how the proles live a "bad" existence, yet they're still the ones having the most fun !

I had the same thoughts when I read 1984. I can't really remember but I must have been approx 15 years old when i read 1984 (and Brave new World)and it sort of shaped my outlook on life.

I also decided that life among the proles would be preferable to being a slave of the system sitting behind some desk working and standing for the system. Why waste your time studying for something when you can only achieve anything as long as you suck up to the system. It was then the late 60s, the hippie-wave and lsd was in full swing, hadn't reached me yet but, only in my mind.

With all this new stuff to explore right ahead, who would think of CAREER (shudder).

TURN ON TUNE IN DROP OUT was the slogan, and I followed it, well I still finished my apprenticeship but dropped out soon after.

But really I don't think the proles have a lot of fun. The "proles" haven't changed at all since 1970, they're still the same now and then, and they're not having fun. Do you think the people in pubs and night clubs are having fun? Well work as a taxi driver for a while and you'll see. They maybe on a temporary , aggressive, stupid, racistic, sexistic and whatever-istic high in the early hour when they still get some benefit from their drinks, but you pick them up at 3 am from the nightclubs, and you'll find very few people who have fun. Most are depressed, sad, aggressive, tired and terribly cranky. No trace of fun. The only fun they have is if they figure out a way to pick on someone else, and that is plain dumb and has nothing to do with having fun.

Since I chose that road, I've worked with proles many times, and most are not happy.

Look at your average "worker's family" (before they break up):

Man goes to work, some stupid mindless job as a machine operator, forklift driver or what have you.

Repetitive work that requires no creative input, work that will probably be done by machines one day soon.

When they come home what can they do?

If their relationship is just fresh, they may have a good time with their wifes/girlfriends. As time wears on, the relationship wears out, the wife nags all the time because she wants always more, the prole has to escape into alcoholism and today as well into cannabis.

Repetitive cannabis consumption can become just as bad as alcoholism, and can wear your health right down and put you into a similar mindframe as alcohol.

Cannabis is great as an eye opener in the beginning but if continuously used as a permanent binge thing it is very negative.

Ppl who regularly binge on cannabis have just as closed minds as alcoholics.

So no, becoming a prole is not a solution.

You may HIDE BETWEEN THE PROLES...

, they're still having fun. We've read they all gathered in the bar, discussed the lotto results (alright, I'm totally screwing the books message over. Maybe) but those using alcohol may seem unhappy from OUR perspective, they're having fun ! Think of how fun it is to escape the hangovers, the cravings, and just drink it all off !

Drink it all off? Impossible! I've tried that many times, and you can just keep drinking true, but you'll have to stop sometime (if you work?)If you never stop you'll be a full-blown alkie who lies in the gutter begging for money...You don't seriouslu think that someone like that has even any memory of happiness?

No, I can just say again and again: Alc is like 20% fun, and 80% side effects.

The only thing to get maximum out of alc is two have no more than 2 standard drinks and avoid the side effects. Which I can't do.

Timothy Leary put alcohol on the same plane of conciousness as opiates and how right he is. I can smoke a joint of heroin and stop.

Give it to a junkie and he's totally hooked again.

Obese people look fat from the outside. They look unhappy not being able to press telephone buttons and having to prevent nuclear meltdowns (how funny was the Simpsons !?!) anyways they're not thinking like that when they're down at the Cheesecake Shop, they love eating food ! It tastes great. I reckon food freaking rules. Sugar is the chonkiest thing ever. And that's enjoyment !

My god!!! You couldn't be wronger. I lived for 2 years with an obese woman. I was never attracted to her, she was just to fat to be sexy. My consideration when I got together with her was : "Nobody helps the por fat bitch, so I will..." I was also hoping that would help to pay off some of the bad karma I had attracted to myself by travelling in thailand rooting all these pretty women...

Well perhaps It did. because this relationship was terrible. From my side it was all input with no reward. She would lie on her bed all day being sick from too much food, asking to be served and annoying me with her smallmindedness. 3 times a day I had to get or order food from pizza hut, hunrgy jack's macdonalds or what ever. In the 2 years she put on another 30 kilo, mind you I put on some too being with her.

After 1 year all I could think of was how can I get rid of her without causing major disturbances. Well I did in the end and have been free for 6 months now. it's also cured me from the idea of thinking I have to have a woman, no matter what. I'm fine right now, and no, i'm not impotent. I'd love to have a woman just for fun times, but i want no commitments. Like my first ex used to say, "An open relationship", if that's possible.

But no, obese people are as far from happyness as anyone can imagine. To me obesity is a very bad addiction, compatible to alcoholism, can't even tell which one is worse.

Hell, the dude trapped in the dead end job at a mechanics factory, or even the guy who drives the Merc who runs in the rat race, they don't look like they're having fun from our perspective. But here's another perspective - the Merc dude loves to buy Merc's ! He loves to get the latest Armani suit ! Like the dude in Fight Club, he lives for the next Ikea catalogue. There's always another corner to look around, and you'll never be able to know what the dudes around it are talking about until you go up and talk with them.

Well the thing with these people is that they are conditioned by society and don't know it or don't want to know it. Nothing wrong with that except that there's to many of them, and they're all conditioned and they keep the ONE's AT THE TOP JUST THERE, AT THE TOP and they have it all their way, with the same stupid laws, the same destructive priorities for the planet and so on.

People who live in programmed conciousness are in the way of evolution of freedom, and we, the ones who want to develop ourselves and want the best for humanity, nature and the planet, have to suffer, i.e. anti-drug-laws, being denied work because you live in a hippie-commune etc etc etc.

No, the prole way is wrong....

[This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 04 July 2002).]

[WarpedAstro]

Whoa Gomaos.....you certianly have a lot of opinions towards alcohol and the society's relationships with alcohol...the book you plan/hope to write certainly sounds interesting to read if it ever get printed, I wouldn't mind get a copy!!

[Auxin]

"Alc is like 20% fun, and 80% side effects."- goamos

It was like that when I was 15, by the time I was 19 the effects had changed to 2% fun, 98% side effects so I quit. Now (22) it just feels like liquid death, so I aint ever gonna start drinking again. I guess this would make me one of the lucky ones!?!

Its a good thing I lost the taste for the stuff before getting addicted. My grandpa was so addicted that he took antabuse with whiskey just to get a extra buzz! Needless to say, his body got so screwed by alc that he had to be hooked to machines in order to live one last decade, thats no way to go out.

[gomaos]

I was originally going to write 10 % fun, 90 % side effects, then told myself, you have to be fair to all the alc heads, and changed it to 80/20. But 90/10 is more like it.

The last spell I had lasted approx 24 hrs and was not at all enjoyable, from the beginning. I started drinking with my friend approx 6 at night, never felt good about it, went to bed 10 pm, woke up feeling terrible 2 am and had to keep drinking till 4 pm next day until the beer was finished. Then told myself that's it, wrote "alcohol totally sucks" on the fridge, and that's now almost 3 weeks. Still don't have a craving.

And reading about your granpa, Auxin, really repels, and Warped Astro, I hope I can proove somehow that those things I write aren't only just opinions...

and no I could not have stopped so easily without having access to "alternatives"

[This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 05 July 2002).]

[gomaos]

Only found your post now, darcy.

Sure if you can handle the drug alcohol, then there's noting wrong with tat.

As I mentioned before, moderate use may even be beneficial.

I never REALLY got into alc until I picked up this job when I was around 25. I hadn't worked for a while and had to take what i could get. This one was furniture removalist for one of the english barracks in my german home town. All the workers were german however, and out of 8 working hours per day they sat around at least 5 and drank beer and schnaps. The job was totally underpaid but still twice the dole.

Since most the time there was nothing else to do, I took up drinking too. It helped a lot at the time, but I kept drinking after I left the job.

I think after drinking almost every day for 20 years, even if it's just moderate, your body chemistry has changed, and alcohol just doesn't work the way it used to, just makes you continuously sick and depressed.

I'm off it for 5 weeks now and feel very good about it. Couldn't however have done it without shiva and his/hers super-best friends.

My gnome has had the chance to try some 5meoamt. Only ever small doses between 1-5mg. He thinks it's an excellent drug, very close to e or k or meth. If anyone has problems with those drugs, they should give 5meoamt a go. One hit, smoked or taken orally, just keeps going and there's no need to continuously top up as with the other drugs mentioned above.

It's still a tryptamine, but at low doses there's totally no mindfuck, and it's closer to e than anything else.

It's not scheduled, but could be illegal under the analogue act.

Just thought I'd mention it, since it's a very good "alternative".

Unfortunately you have to order it from overseas, but since my voacanga seeds experience I don't do that anymore...

[gomaos]

Hmm I should probably add now, that just recently all tryptamines including amt and 5meoamt have been or are being made illegal in the states.

The prosecutors want to send some of the people who used to run JLF to jail for a few years. Some have ALREADY been prosecuted.

Oh well everybody knows that the US government totally sucks so there's no need to mention that.

For now my last comment on amt and other tryptamines is, yes, they are a good alternative to other drugs including alcohol, and if i had a choice between LSD and AMT I would choose AMT because LSD maybe good for psychotherapy and simlar purposes, but for me it's just too mind-fucking, i prefer to have a GOOD TIME for a LONG TIME on AMT.

Pity it's nearly almost impossible to get now.

No prob to get the boring old acid but i don't want that.

[jetblack]

 

 

They are totally self-righteous, hate all other drugs excluding perscription medicines and hate all new ideas except when they are convinced by the authorities who do all the thinking for them since all their creative thinking has been retarded by alc.

Heh, sounds like my relatives too

[gomaos]

Yeah I bet there's lot of rellies like that everywhere...

Eat more shit!

Ten billion flies can't be wrong!

[Dubius]

Yeah, Gomaos you know me too well. Last night I drank a bottle of Jack Daniels and then a quarter of a bottle of cougar.

Unfortunatly I have never met a drug that can medicate me in the way that alcohol can. Let us hope Germany's dry alcohol drug and Britain's Hangover pill can help.

It is not surprising that two of the largest drinking nations - the German and Anglo - Saxon nations, are engaged in this kind of research.

[gomaos]

Oh no, dubius, you found me out...who told you to look here in psy exp. I spend a lot of time in here, because not many people go here....you know I'm people-shy, a loner who spends all his time away from the mainstream...

yeah i think i mentioned you there somewhere in my previous post...

"dry alcohol" in germany?

well not for me, wet or dry...

yeah but what's to that "dry-alcohol" thing that my "ex-brother in law" in Germany was talkin abuut?

Anyone heard of "dry alcohol"?

It's supposed to be very potent and dangerous...

No I've managed to stay off it for 7 weeks now, very proud...but then again what's 7 weeks? nothing!

[Darklight]

Originally posted by gomaos:

but then again what's 7 weeks? nothing!

Something to be proud of

...seven weeks moving away from things that weren't making you happy...

...seven weeks of heading towards a destination you're looking forward to...

In the long run gom it saves a lifetime of wasted time, hey, congratulations to you sweetie I reckon it's great. How's the cig thing going? I envy you that

[gomaos]

Thanks Darklight.

Yeah i'm still off both nicotine and a-l-c...

I think the most difficult thing is not to stop, but to stay off it.

Quite often I think that I'm missing something, i. e. i think I'm gonna have a smoke now but then I remember, oh yeah i stopped smoking, so i don't...

BTW this thread helped me get off it...

www.//inti.murple.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=244&start=15

i.e. it helped me make the decision...

the truth is you really have to want to stop...

(I just hope I stay off it, it'd be a shame if I made a big noise abut it like I do now, and then tomorrow I'd start again...)

[Torsten]

Originally posted by gomaos:

the truth is you really have to want to stop...

I usually don't buy into poeple's sympathy trips when they quit smoking or quit something else. Addictions only last a few days past the day you give up and anythign after that is in your mind. If your mind is strong enough and your desire for life vibrant enough then you will not find it hard to stay off whatever you are taking. I have totally given up giving support to people who are quitting nicotine. Simple fact is that those who make a big hoohaa about it generally go back in no time at all. Those who have really come to the point in their lives where they are ready to give up will not need or seek the attention.

Alcohol is quite nasty in its mindcontrol. In the 90's I got myself hooked onto a variety of drugs, but rarely more than 6 months. At the end of that period I would usually just take a good long look at myself and say 'enough'. But all along alcohol was there. never to any degree that would worry me, until one day. I realised I was drinking too much and I wanted to stop, but couldn't. As luck would have it, Daniel came along and he had a severe pot habit so we quit together -- well, he relapsed for 2 years, but my driving force was being an example to him.

Given that my granddad died from DT's (which left my dad way too scared to ever drink more than a glass a week), it was probably good that i got a break from alcohol. These days anything more than a couple of beers just makes me feel lousy, so I have little desire to drink. But I love beer When I open the fridge to grab a beer, often I will put it back. Just tossing up whether I really want one and if I really want the sideeffects.

As for drugs giving a different perspective..... I only got that in my LSD phase. This is the only drug that kept me away from drinking, but also not for long - maybe a year. I never had a problem combining drugs with alcohol for as long as I was a 'happy drunk'. This changed in about 95 and since then alcohol did not agree with drugs at all.

I don't think there is any moral high ground in not drinking. I think just like any other drug it induces an altered state and its what you do with that state that matters. But just like any other drug you should never take it for the wrong reasons. There is no point in doing anything if it isn't fun or educational

Gomaos, 7 weeks is substantial and a good indicator that you will make it. Giving up both was a good choice as one drug reinforced behavioural patterns for the other. if you ever need convincing that you made the right choice, just think of your kids and your future. Don't think of the negative things in your life - they will not help you and eventually they will go away. Don't let them ruin your life in the meantime.

BTW, there was some research done at Madrid University into the addiction interrupting properties of LSD by none other than Albert Hofmann. The 'cure' rate for alcohol was about 50%. A little lower for other drugs.

[gomaos]

Well now it's another 4 weeks and it's absolutely no effort to stay off it anymore.

Also haven't touched tobacco...

I'm not trying to show off with this, since this alone doesn't make me a better person.

Still like my cannabiol, just wished I had a vapourizer (since people said that the brisbane company selling them is not trustworthy I haven't looked further into it...)

I get really funny reactions from neighbours, friends:

For example,next door neighbour comes over after work saying: "Well I just bought myself a bottle of rum and I'm gonna have that, and I'm also gonna have a big joint WITH TOBACCO and the green stuff in it..."

As if I was a moralist and trying to sell my "ideology" to anyone...which of course isn't the case...I don't care if the rest of the world stupifies themselves with alc and smokes cigarettes until their lungs fall apart, I'm just trying to save my own arse...

dubius still comes around and drinks his whiskey on weekends...that's fine with me...at least now I can restrain him when he gets to stupid...

and just recently my gnome Wastl tried some acacia extract for the first time...jeez that was cool, he claims he saw god, but can't really tell what it looks like....

[Guest mandragora]

Na ja you have only this one body, and I think if you don't look after him nobody will give you another one.

I have until now sucessfully avoid to get too much adicted to anything, probably, because I know I would be fast adicted to things, so I have always a good look how my behaviour is.

Maybee too good, am I boring?

Neee, I am weird enough without something.

Ah yeah my drugs are beer, coffee and shopping and when I am sad starving.

[Guest mandragora]

And 7 weeks is really really good.

[gomaos]

Thanks Mandragora.

Actually it's 12 weeks now, and 4 weeks off tobacco.

Funny, i never miss the actual effects of alcohol, only sometimes I would like the taste of beer in my mouth. Oh well, you can't have everything.

It's funny as you say, that you have always stayed clear off addictions.

With me, when I was in my teens, I really wanted TO KNOW, wanted to enter those other dimensions that only open up with the right key etc.

But then everybody is different...

[gomaos]

Originally posted by mandragora:

Na ja you have only this one body, and I think if you don't look after him nobody will give you another one.

Agree totally.

[WarpedAstro]

mmm... I haven't smoked a ciggie since 17th May I sometimes miss the ciggie, specially when I am drinking grog, and "after dinner ciggie" when the ciggies tastes at its best, I guess you just have to get used to it, and the changes of personal habits, etc... Keep up goamos, goodluck for next following months...it gets easier after while....I know, been there and done it... and still doing it... WA