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Mealybugs i'd say.  Effectively the same thing but better at moving and hiding.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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They do look very much like scale, except a bit fuzzy and they move...

mealy bugs it is!!

any suggestions?

i am trimming and washing plants, removing bugs with alcohol while trimming.

then considering a soil drench of Azamax , ...so it is applied as a 'systemic' 

this has actually worked on scale before...

 

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Hmmm i had assumed like many ethnoheads you'd forsake systemic pesticides.  Not sure about that product but if it works on other sapsuckers you should be alright.  

 

A good idea with mealybugs too since they will suck from hidden locations, including roots!

 

A simple foliar spray of imadicloprid would also have been effective (i think).  It has shorter witholding periods than other systemics.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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Azamax is basically neem extract and some terpenoids. The active ingredient is Azadirachtin. The only issue I see with this product is that by buying it you're enriching Monsanto, since GHE is owned by the fuckers.

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mispost - hadn't read the mealies bit

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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I have not used the systemic to get rid of the mealy bugs yet...

it is xtracted from neem oil, so I figure it might be ok.

i only resorted to using it on some other plants in the past 

after spending many hours over several years fighting scale insects....

will check into using imadicloprid as well..

i am going to trim the plants and wash with alcohol.

maybe spraying with 10% bleach , washing a bit then rinsing could work too.

might not use Azamax on the Cabrerana ....

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Azamax , made from neem seems ok.....

i looked into the other one a bit..

bees don't visit my trees , but Wikipedia said 

"Recent research suggests that widespread agricultural use of imidacloprid and other pesticides may be contributing to honey bee colony collapse disorder, the decline of honey bee colonies in Europe and North America observed since 2006.[8][9][10] As a result, several countries have restricted use of imidacloprid and other neonicotinoids.[8] In January 2013, the European Food Safety Authority stated that neonicotinoids pose an unacceptably high risk to bees, and that the industry-sponsored science upon which regulatory agencies' claims of safety have relied, may be flawed, or even deceptive."

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Azamax does actually work to get rid of scale, as a systemic 

where nothing else ever has.

i have not tried imadicloprid though.

i had hoped to use ozone and ozonated water to kill pests in another project

but it requires a bit more study and if not careful ozone can kill plants and animals.

ozone does seem great for cleaning hydroponic system though.

i will start a thread about ozone seperately, and alt pest control.

i agree it would be best to use something that simply goes away, and leaves no trace or residue.

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Ok, the plants are dropping a few leaves still.

some have good new growth, and others I am concerned about.

I still can't help but wonder, due to all those small water droplets on the leaf

if it was infected with some very small pests when it arrived.

i did use Azamax as systemic on them a bit, hopefully it will help.

several do still have good new growth...

i would really like to hurry up and get a disinfected culture into micropropagation tech ASAP.

but, of course, it must be free of pests, and vigorous...

also, I dislike cutting the new growth, when the plant needs more leaves!

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In the interest of providing generally usefull info for others now and in the future

for this difficult to find plant that few are familiar with in its live form

here is a response to a question re: grow advice for Cabrerana

'Straight'  from the horses.....well, let's just say, mouth , as the saying goes around here.....

the Estimated Prophet, doth speaketh thusly:

"

My opinion of the plant is it seems to be a generalist. It reacts favorably to the same condition as tomatoes, pepper an other plants with average cultural conditions.  The only special thing is slow development on cuttings and it need tropical weather.  High rain fall, fast drainage and temps between 65 and 90.
 
The one in the woods is just growing in deep volcanic ash soil and feeding on leaf litter.
 
In the nursery I use Pro-Mix HP as medium and Nutricote 180 as fertilizer.

 

 

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Also, if anyone has lots of time on their hands

i am willing to fill the role of guru or messiah of some new religion.

If you feel inclined, the first step is to raise lots of funds.

then, if you like, you and other sincere  devotees,

can carry me around on a fancy chair.

i will go around to various cool places

and cause impressive stone temples and various monuments to be created.

Thanks in advance !

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"it's the little things that Kill"

bush 

Edited by shonman

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On 11/24/2017 at 9:17 PM, shonman said:

i would really like to hurry up and get a disinfected culture into micropropagation tech ASAP.

but, of course, it must be free of pests, and vigorous...

also, I dislike cutting the new growth, when the plant needs more leaves!

 

That's the spirit!

 

And yeah, that last bit sucks. It's hard to resist that temptation I know, but in the long run it's sooooo much better for both your work and the plant.

 

Taking parent material from weak plants rarely results in a win for either of you

 

Hey I can't remember, but were you initiating new cultures into 1/2 strength media with low sugar? Always a good start, low ( 50% or less ) sugar doesn't feed contaminants anywhere near as much as full strength. Gives your species time to recover.

 

I've always believed explants retain some residual immune system after excision ( this is just a belief- I've never looked deeply into whole-plant immune response ). I've seen a few species carry residual contamination for yeeeeeeears without effect as long as there is PPM in the media- and have that contam re-emerge a decade later in the absence of PPM ( positive controls were in place, so yes, it's a thing ). PPM is a biotstat- not a biocide.

 

I no longer always run batches of media with PPM, it's exxy. And while I was working this out I did lose batches of plants, so I got cautious and decided PPM needed to go into everything. Then I isolated the compulsory PPM requirements to a few species only, and also always keep a few of every species in PPM in case of equipment or operator error.

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Thanks Darklight!

you are truly an ultraviolet light, shining unto the darkness....

Yes, always doing 1/2 strength, 1/2 sugar to start out.

very difficult to make my own self go on 1/2 sugar though.

i am trying to cut back,....not easy. It is in everything!

i agree, PPM suppresses, but does not kill some or many? Fungi.

sometimes it is very evident, in that if I leave plants in culture too long

at a certain stage the PPM wears off or is no longer effective.

when that happens, often all sorts of things will grow and go wild.

i suppose, one could always keep the cultures, working with active ppm

then, deflasking brings the plant into new conditions

which are more conducive to plant growth, than fungus growth in the sealed humid environment.

i think some species of fungi are possibly symbiotic with the plants in some cases

but in vitro, or in humid conditions with no ventilation....the fungus takes over.

or maybe it's just contamination.

there is speculation that certain tree species have endogenous fungus

and I have seen some plants growing extremely healthy, with fungus in its medium...totally unaffected.

it actually rooted much better than usual.

Re: cabrerana....I will probably use ppm at first, just in hopes of getting something to work.

then make sure those cultures get changed, then deflasking, before ppm wears off.

then, I will let the ppm wear off or discontinue in some test cultures, and see how those do.

if they have contaminants still, 

i might try dividing those unaffected cultures, with ppm in them....

and put the divided tops into a chlorinated medium.

some plants won't root in this medium, but fungus can't grow either.

then, I would divide after new growth occurs

and try working with the newest growth, in non chlorinated medium...

holing to eventually get an uncontaminated culture going.

hopefully it will be easier than all that....whatever it takes.

i don't think the cabrerana plants liked growing in sterile coir mix,

after I started using the County water....and moved them indoors...

their condition is not as good as it was outside in summer.

i also think this species does not like being overly watered

unlike what I saw online, and with some other related plants.

it seems to want steady water, but not soaking wet.

i am going to put them on a heat mat too , in hopes of getting the roots going and speeding up growth.

warmer, damp but not soaked medium, and will use distilled water or rainwater to water with...

i am tempted to remove them from the coir mix,

yet hesitate to 'go organic ' with 'filth culture ' now when I am trying for disinfected plants.

perhaps I should try several things as well...like placing leaves in an aeroponic cloner.

perhaps after I get good new growth, I will try several ways of cloning.

right now I am 'afraid' to take any growth from the plant.

have been so busy....when I can I will slow down and really tune into the plants energy...

'ask it, what it wants/ needs to grow '

the other day when I was tending to them, I felt a tingle when the healthiest one brushed against my arm.

almost a sort of loving, grateful energy like ' thanks for taking care of us '

I will take some time to really get what this plant needs, from a centered space.

as soon as I get everything done around here!

 

 

 

 

Edited by shonman
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sorry off topic Shonman but if i think there's a place i might be able to help I tend to try..

For your own self, if it floats your boat,[ and doesn't eat out your pocket too much more]:

replace those sugars with natural ones like honey? .. the extra cost is usually helpful in cutting back intake and the extra health benefits feel like quite an improvement to overall general health in comparison .. 

-seems to make for less headaches anyway and nicer mouth feeling after use.

 

 Darklight, are you the one we can thank for being able to grow our fave Acacia? (phleb)

Thanks for all the plant help [directly or indirectly] mate!

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Thanks, good advice!

in fact, the honey is great in tissue culture and whoretoculture too,

it seems to promote rooting!

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21 hours ago, shonman said:

Thanks Darklight!

 

No wuckas, is a pleasure walking with you on the path, your thorough note taking, good questions and sharing results here is an inspiration

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

Yes, always doing 1/2 strength, 1/2 sugar to start out.

 

:) Sorry i shoulda checked yr earlier responses

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

i agree, PPM suppresses, but does not kill some or many? Fungi.

sometimes it is very evident, in that if I leave plants in culture too long

at a certain stage the PPM wears off or is no longer effective.

 

This is very true. It also has a use by date. I know this because I used some really old stock once past the date and it wasn't effective. Lesson learned

 

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

i think some species of fungi are possibly symbiotic with the plants in some cases

but in vitro, or in humid conditions with no ventilation....the fungus takes over.

 

This is also true IME

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

or maybe it's just contamination.

 

It often is, but not always. Depends on circumstance and your experience with the workflow for whichever species it is

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

Re: cabrerana....I will probably use ppm at first, just in hopes of getting something to work.

then make sure those cultures get changed, then deflasking, before ppm wears off.

then, I will let the ppm wear off or discontinue in some test cultures, and see how those do.

if they have contaminants still, 

i might t......( snipped this bit )

 

Ye gods it all sounds arduous, I feel your pain. Scattergun approach is probably best at this point and at least you're taking good notes and making sure you have backup material.

 

It's hard starting cultures for a species new to TC when you have very little parent material, and heartbreaking. Worth it when it works tho

 

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

right now I am 'afraid' to take any growth from the plant.

 

No rush, let it grow back and be strong

 

21 hours ago, shonman said:

have been so busy....when I can I will slow down and really tune into the plants energy...

'ask it, what it wants/ needs to grow '

the other day when I was tending to them, I felt a tingle when the healthiest one brushed against my arm.

almost a sort of loving, grateful energy like ' thanks for taking care of us '

I will take some time to really get what this plant needs, from a centered space.

 

 

That's completely unscientific of you and is exactly what I do all the time too :)

 

 

20 hours ago, ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ said:

 

 Darklight, are you the one we can thank for being able to grow our fave Acacia? (phleb)

 

 

Nup, not down to me at all. I had a few years of having a good crack at aseptic culture, as did a well known TC local who had similar luck. Another young fella took the population pressure off the phlebs by identifying other easy to cultivate Australian acacias with a similar profile- so there was no longer a need to hunt the phlebs specifically in the wild. Then a third young fella found a rhizobium inoculant which promotes survival past the critical time point where most of the people cultivating it were experiencing progressive dieback which was ultimately fatal.

 

Point being this project is a community effort. Not deliberately, but it didn't happen in isolation. And some outcomes ( like the reduced population pressure from wild harvesting ) were unanticipated and secondary to other research. And a good many people posted and shared results both formally and informally which allowed patterns to emerge and be followed. Lots of things didn't work- until a few did.

 

I'm not 100% confident the species is out of the woods yet ( har har ) but it's looking to be in better shape wrt numbers and cultivation than it was 20 years ago. Keep an eye on it, research where you can, and understand that collective direct community input has the capacity to trump government grant applications for actually making things happen

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Thanks again, Darklight!

i have been thinking about some possible causes

of the Cabrerana not doing  as well as bfore.

the insects are of course on reason.

other possible reasons :

-it could be adversely affected by the 24 hour light on cycle I have indoors 

- it does not like to dry out then get really wet again, in the sandy coir mix I have it in

- maybe it needs things like I think it's called fulfill acid....components of soil with rotting vegetation.

i have been super busy taking care of plants ....

a good next step ( if anyone has time on their hands, they could look into this and post )

would be to look at the conditions, light cycle, soil components and humidity , rain, and temps 

in the natural environment the plant grows in.

then I will work on duplicating those ....

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I planted up nine Cabrerana yesterday .

this time , used sandy soil in the bottom of planters , pitting soil made from forest compost and inoculated it with other potting soil that had beneficial fungi and etc 

then mulched a bit with sphagnum moss on top.

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Here is one .

this time I am going to put them through procedure to kill any pests and pathogens .

9F65230B-89FB-4DD5-BBAD-9CB98CE7260A.jpeg

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What are these spots ?

some sort of pest ?

 

87DD0C0B-292C-47EC-85DB-58BDF9199AF6.jpeg

83757765-15FC-4AA8-A537-E805EF7458AD.jpeg

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Looks like the early stage of blister mite.

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