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Zedo

Flat earth debate

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Over my life I have come across the flat earth theory numerous times.

Primary school was when I remember learning the earth is a sphere. At the same time I used to go to church with mum and I remember the non sphere bible teaching at one or two occasions.(FYI I'm not religious and never liked church etc. but do respect the fact some people are) but at that age I was still a sponge and absorbed info without too much question. 

High school I remember coming across the theory again. But at this age it was really just brushed off as a pre dated biblical theory which science disproved many many years ago. So pretty much didn't do much but heckle the idea. 

Just out of high school I'd awakened to many ideas that we are being controlled and lied to on many levels. Upon other theories I came across in my quest for truth, the flat earth once again appeared and I looked at it with more of an open mind. But at the end I saw the proof given to sphere and ticked it off the list. 

 

So so where am I now and why am I bothering to post about this? Well I'm 30 now and over a year back my life was flip on it's head and I began to fully awaken. So I'm not too young to be a sponge nor too old to teach new tricks lol. But last week I really came into question the shape of our home.

 

Why now and not then? What's different now? I realise awakening changes everything in the way you can't explain to the sleeping. But this is obsurd. Flat earth? Or at least not a spinning ball? Bullshit I say. But....

 

while I'm no math professor, I do use math everyday for work. Circles, arcs, tangents, angles, geometry. I know, understand and use many math formulas these days and really enjoy math. So I though haha I understand math now so I'll do some calculations and test this flat earth bullshit now I'm equipt with the language that doesn't lie. 

 

And well... I'm not so sure about the spherical earth now. The math just does not add up. Looked at many vids other people doing the same math to double check my thoughts and I'm not wrong mathamaticly I'm pretty sure. 

 

Before we start the discussion, please note. I'm not advocating a flat earth or a sphereical earth. I realise there are many points to support and disprove both theories. I also want to note that I personally do not believe the notion of a flat earth 'means' there is a creator. Which I have found a lot of. Yeah the bible has a flat earth model but this is really besides the point. So this is not a religious argument. 

I'm looking at what I think is the most crucial.

 

The math. 

 

I posted this here because I have seen the community here has their eye open a little wider than the majority, so I'm hoping people can contribute their thoughts and feelings without bias slandering just cause lol. You know what I mean. 

 

 

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Just on a side note. While I wasn't thinking of this while I was in Fiji. If I look back and remember, we did a 5 hours ferry ride through lots of tiny islands. Some very flat. As in less than 6ft above sea level. These islands appeared fro the distance from a grey blob to become an island. While I can't verify this atm, I'm pretty sure due to curvature of the earth they should have risen over the horizon rather than just becoming clearer. 

 

The sight distance over horizon seems to be one thing to really support the math. 

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Hey Zedo, 

 

I have not seen any credible evidence to suggest the flat earth theory is more valid than the current round earth model. But i would be interested to have a look at the maths your talking about. 

Im not sure how a flat earth would be possible. But if there is compelling evidence to prove it to be valid ill happily change my position. 

 

My biggest points of confusion with the flat earth are...

How would gravity be generated? 

How would satellites stay in the sky?

Why dont planes or boats fall off the edge?

Why dont we have good pictures of the edge?

Are the other planets flat too? 

 

Christopher Columbus seems to be known as one of the major names claiming the earth was round, back when the majority still believed it was flat. 

I dont see what motivation an explorer would have to propose a fake geographical theory, when his life depends upon how well he could navigate his way around the ocean. 

 

Rather than reading other people's ideas, pro or against the theory, why not test it? 

It wouldn't be to difficult to make a hot air balloon that could go up high enough to take pictures of the curvature of the planet. 

Maybe mount a mobile phone to the balloon, video call it, then let it go and see what you can see :)

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I'll do a search and post some vids. While i am not the creator of the vids I can't vouch for their authenticity but there does seem to be 'proof' to a degree. The biggest issue with videos from what I understand is the lens. If the camera looks level, the earth is 'flat'. If the camera is angled down, the earth is curved in the notion of a sphere. If the camera looks up the earth curves the opposite of down, ie the convex earth. The flat earth debate is also the debate on 'gravity' as I see it. 

while im not pro at the subject, it appears to me the 'key' is the gravitational constant. It's debatable as to whether it is legit or made up. Reason being is there's no way to replicate or test the results. Even though it was discovered well before computers. So in turn if this constant is made up, no Astro physics maths can be accurate let alone calculatable. 

 

I'll post some vids. Like anything watch it critically and make your own judgement.

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This site has links to heaps on the topic.

http://www.jeranism.com/

 

And this dudes videos sorta explain what I calculated. And he gives things to think about given space orbiting satellights etc.

 

Go to the playlist and start from number 1.0

i dunno why it displayed this video first

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this ones not the full video but skip through just past half way. As  the camera rolls around due to wind you can see the curve of the earth bend both ways from the horizon. Just shows to me that the camera isn't a reliable method as it can produce both results by changing the angle from the horizon .

 

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Of course the world's fucken flat, every time I bury my head in the sand I get to see it from underneath.

 

 

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yes very true. Truth cannot be debated. I'm looking for an explaination as to how the math in relation the to earth doesn't line up with a spherical earth. Once again I'm not advocating either way. Im mearly expressing that to myself (and apparently many others) something doesn't add up. 

 

To be honest the first thing that came to mind when this concept took my attention was 'a wet spinning tennis ball'. 

 

Could it it be possible it's a 'compressed' sphere to a degree (if that made sense) and flat vs curvature is but perspective depending your position and orientation. ( I have no proof of this concept, it was just a thought)

Edited by Zedo

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Thought I'd wade in and add that gravity is not a 'constant'. Check out Rupert Sheldrake for more on that point :wink:

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Ah yes I have heard this and it does make sense. Though I'll be reading into it more.  

I have read/heard arguments against the original calculation. One was something to do with it being set and not found, therefore other devices are calibrated to said calculation.

 

good point though. Thanks. 

 

Still not sure how this changes/adjusts/verifies or denies either theory. 

 

 

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Do you contend that the exploration of our solar system with probes and telescopes is one giant elaborate hoax along with gps services, nuclear weapons strategy, cartography, shipping and international flight?

 

I admit ive never investigated the"theory" because its absurd on the level of cosmic conspiracy.  

 

I often doubt the motives of scientists but given  such a vast conspiracy doesnt strike me as credible or warranting investigation then I dont imagine gravity has anything to do with the question.

 

"be it spheroid?" is a question of geometry.

 

I dont buy that ancient man thought earth was flat because ancient man not only possessed genius intellect, he was driven to utilise it.

 

Edited by ThunderIdeal
Typos
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I can see your view, and by all means I fully accept the claims warranted that go with a flat earth model as absurd and well yeah... a cosmic conspiracy is well over the top. Im not some doom sayer running through the city with a bible sprooking of the end lol. but I do feel that people dismiss too many things without fully evaluating the whole picture. I too am guilty of this on many things. I guess it's part of the ego some times. As I said before what's got me is the math. That's where I question it. 

I do know how different existence can be when you look through a different lens, so possibly all this could be perspective in a sense. Like going from looking at circle to a sphere to a 'hologram' ? If that made sense.

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Ok.  It never hurts to use your brain and explore ideas :)  and doubting especially is the trait of a keen mind

 

Happy hunting

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Yes happy hunting indeed lol. Thinks me needs a lawn chair and heaps of balloons. 

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Oops mods delete please "ok we will definitely get on that"

Edited by ThunderIdeal

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As far as gravity is concerned, it is a professed 'constant' which it patently is not, similar to the speed of light. In that sense it fits into this thread in terms of 'questioning the scientific status quo'. I guess... :huh:

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There are space probes which arent in expected locations implying that somehow our rules or calculations are off.  Even more compelling is the low mass of comets which only makes sense if they are fluffy/hollow yet some argue they are in fact boulders which may be corroborated by rosetta.  I wont get into topics beyond the solar system but we've staked our understanding of everything on our understanding of gravity and this doesnt seem to be working.

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Rather than reading other people's ideas, pro or against the theory, why not test it? 

It wouldn't be to difficult to make a hot air balloon that could go up high enough to take pictures of the curvature of the planet. 

Maybe mount a mobile phone to the balloon, video call it, then let it go and see what you can see :)

 

 

 

 
26 Mar 2010
 
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As far as gravity is concerned, it is a professed 'constant' which it patently is not, similar to the speed of light. In that sense it fits into this thread in terms of 'questioning the scientific status quo'. I guess... :huh:

 

Yer, Rupert Sheldrake seems to be heavily criticized by the majority of the scientific community.  

 

I dont understand why a cell biologist would decided to write books about topics outside his field of expertise. Surely he would understand if his theories are credible they would pass sufficient scientific scrutiny and be publish in a respected journal.  

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There are stories of pressure being applied preventing people from even speaking at events.  This sort of thing doesn't influence journals too?

 

Im not backing sheldrake,, but your last statement to me.indicates the profound impartiality that is projected onto "the scientific community".

 

Since when can any group of people playing with large sums of money be considered impartial?

 

I love science, I wish I could do science, but this notion that that the scientific community is unquestionably scientific has been shown to be false AFAIC.  The problem then is if you dont trust science as a whole then which parts do you trust?

 

It is naive in my view to think a group of humans would selflessly devote themselves to a discipline of knowledge.  PERIOD.  Power corrupts.

 

Maybe im wrong about a bunch of shit, but totally naive I am not, nor is deference to authority my default.

 

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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That video seems pretty good. I see both either curvature or end of sight on the horizon. If you can only see so far you will only see a circle sorta shape before u cant see no more. This is where I feel the math really takes place. The viewing angle at that heigh should show much more curvature than what 'is' shown. Also I still think lenses play a big part to distort a view one way or another. 

Also looking at older photos from authority NASA, they show far more curvature than what is presented today from NASA. 

Good video but I feel it's doesn't 'prove' one way or another. Thanks though.

 

i had an interesting thought followed by seeing an interesting video in light of 'science'.

science is the ability to assetain factual evidence to prove a theory by conducting situations or experiments that will always conclude the same result (correct me if my view is wrong).

since we can't perform many of these tests ourselves, we are left to believe another. 

Realistically it's no different than believing a religions scriptures written by those you don't know. 

Like how many people are 'experts' in their field yet have never 'experienced' first hand the topic they study? I'm sure there's at least one. And someone learnt off then etc etc. 

i love science. I really do. But I think prehaps (even disregarding the topic at hand) we take to much as fact without even giving it a second thought because their trusted experts. 

 

Look at the recent news about 'finding' this new close solar system and planets from NASA. Is NASA the only space organisation? Why don't we hear of discoveries from any other country around the world? 

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from reggie watts ted talk haha

 

"So as I say before the last piece. Feel not as though it is a sphere we live on; rather an infinite plain which has an illusion of leading yourself back to the point of origin. Once we understand that all the spheres in the sky are just large infinite plains, it will be plain to see—okay?"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdHK_r9RXTc

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but I do feel that people dismiss too many things without fully evaluating the whole picture.

 

I agree but this is one of those issues for which the evidence is profoundly overwhelming.

 

unless i missed it, you haven't explained the maths you are using but AFAIK no scientist has ever claimed the earth is a perfect sphere.  It's a lumpy oblate spheroid. 

 

 

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i can see what you are aiming for here zedo but ya gotta admit " lumpy oblate spheroid. " is a compelling word play utilizing intellectual freedom that is hard to ignore.

a mate of mine brought this stone of contention to my attention recently and the fact i've known him to produce amazing musical licks with his axe makes me respect him in the same way mathematicos play games with their brethren.

nice you put this in the creativity section. for the record i think zedo's ok ,.......unless i've been hoodwinked.

summer is near to end and our fruits are blooming but please, i said pet, i said please respect the process, otherwise no comments will for ever be taken into a scientific equation....like which sauce is better with bangers......not to be confused with bungers

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