Where's Wazron, spirituality and the whole shebang

[Wazron]

Just for the record, Wazron has been taking care of busines elsewhere. Tough times have fallen and and I'm fighting back with everything I've got, sooo... priorities have been temporarily rearranged. I'll be fully back on deck in a week or two, sorry for the neglect of duties.

My choice of new name for the forum would be 'Spiritual Paths'. We all walk a different path to our destinations. Some use hard science, some use wicca, some use zen koans. To straightjacket specific terms such as 'magic and witchcraft' does reduce the volume of potential postings somewhat. I'd like to think anyone could post on any topic connected with the path they are travelling, whether it be a skyclad druid, a buddhist monk or a soaring chemonaut. Even the sciences have their moments of insight and beauty, which reveal to the student the mechanics of the physical universe in breathtaking elegance and simplicity.

I have thought for a while that the magic and witchcraft title was turning people away. Even I felt strange reporting the experience I had with the thunderstorm- I do not practice ritual magic, I practice sublimation of the self. It was a spiritual/mystical experience, not an attempt to change or alter things: it was passive and experiential, not active as magic and witchcraft tend to be. The discomfort I felt came directly from the title of the forum.

Well I think 'Spiritual Paths' is the way to go. It is neither active, nor passive, nor does it exclude any form of esoteric or spiritual belief, and even the scientists can maybe tell us what they have learned about their place in the Great Game from their devotions.

All in favour, post 'Aye'. All against, post 'Nay'. If the nays have it we will go back to square one, and look for another name.

Wazron

'I'm a he, goddamnit'

[Auxin]

Aye

[Torsten]

aye

[Darklight]

Aye

And good luck Wazron

[Guest Mesqualero]

Aye

[spiraleyes]

[This message has been edited by spiraleyes (edited 28 April 2002).]

[t st tantra]

maybe its me but i dont like 'paths'.

aye for just spirituality,or similar.

t s t .

[spiraleyes]

yeh,paths is iffy

[Guest Thelema]

i appreciate your reasoning, wazza, but i disagree with the term 'spiritual'.

you say this accomodates people of scientific proclivation.

i see nothing spiritual.maybe i am alone in this. but, as leibnitz(?) once said:

"I have no need of that hypothesis"

i do not need to refer to the spiritual, but i would like to share my "ethnobotanic" experiences in terms of brain chemistry and cognitive science.

Education seems to be the key here...in that spirituality seems to be a blanket upon ignorance.(no arrogance intended)

There must be others like me, that avoid the spiritual, in order to articulate the manifest.

[t st tantra]

thelema for one carrying your name i find your orientation suprising.is this yuor vision of the union of science and religion?

maybe you should leave this forum to those for whom it has meaning?

t s t .

[Guest DragonFyre]

Originally posted by Thelema:

spirituality seems to be a blanket upon ignorance.

See now thats where you've got it all wrong, its...

Theres a blanket of ignorance upon Spirituality

[Torsten]

Originally posted by DragonFyre:

Theres a blanket of ignorance upon Spirituality

I agree. Spirituality isn't the bad thing. It is what many people make of it.

I am scientifically minded and don't have much time for spirituality, but I also can't deny it's existence (especially after consuming lots of ethnobotanicsl ). I have no problem with spirituality as long as it doesn't stand in the way of logic (which is where many/most people put it) .

[Guest auto302823]

Nay.

I don't like "spirit"-ual for all the reasons in the other topic: as in the sense of our lingering spirit after death. Or worse that whole institutional catholic or renewalist holy-spirit thing going on.

Also "path" implies are journey, or commitment to gnosis, which isn't everybody's thing.

I still like folk-, A.L's magic is good too, but I'm still looking also. Magic signifies a body of knowledge apart from the mainstream(r-w-s), it signifies, maybe something like a folk-knowledge, but not that. I tried Roget's and found the word "ken".

http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/arc...2001/10/09.html

So now I *really* like the sense of a Community Ken, a forum for the lay collection of ideas and knowings -- the practices, visions, beliefs and so forth of all of us that comprise "something" (we can't name it, obviously ) and don't fit more specifically elsewhere on the forums.

Our ken includes anything we are, we know, we do, we believe -- from witchcraft, paganism, shamanism, spituality, science, psychology, consciousness (collective & otherwise), marxist and semiotic theory, halluci-gnosis. Whatever.

Kind of like a chill-space, with a point

What do people think?

[spiraleyes]

visions,knowledge,practice and beliefs- sounds good

[Guest DragonFyre]

Originally posted by auto302823:

So now I *really* like the sense of a Community Ken, a forum for the lay collection of ideas and knowings -- the practices, visions, beliefs and so forth of all of us that comprise "something" (we can't name it, obviously ) and don't fit more specifically elsewhere on the forums.

See this is where I have a problem (especially with Gnosis students) alot of ones PERSONAL experiences (especially dreams) arent meant to be shared, they are for ones inner spiritual growth especially for that person... not something to be shared AT ALL!

Its a different matter reguarding the basics of learning and common knowledge but personal things are just that, personal and meant to be kept personal... One thing to keep in mind, is that when spirits/beings share this knowledge with you and you go blurting it to everyone and anyone, they wont trust you again till you prove to them otherwise... would you keep telling secrets to a friend whom told the whole town??

just another 2 cents I think should be mentioned...

[Guest 333]

yeah i think your right...i think the ego plays a big part in wanting to 'tell your mates'

Spiritual knowledge should then, if shared, be bartered with maybe..

but i do think somethings, especially high level stuff should be kept sacred...who knows what some evil spirit would do with the knowledge on where and how to enter gods dome...

I hear from a lot of spiritual though, that believe the knowledge comes back other ways. i guess like the karma theory...

...yeah its somewhere in the middle...

[Guest Mesqualero]

I think if there is a belief system which says this is wrong that is right, it can only be a tiny part of the truth..

There is no right or wrong... and if one believes there is then that becomes the reality.

Basically I will follow what i hear in my heart is right i will read everything put before me.. and in the end I will still only have a single phrase which will be the absolute truth.

There is no right or wrong, there just IS

[Guest DragonFyre]

there is wrong and right Mesq, you can see just from looking at ones ego's and ones consciousness (wrong and right) theres also good and evil and in our world, all shades inbetween though not in the higher planes its straight out good n evil there...

Though you are very much on the right track with listening to your heart in things, just dont shut out the mind! And your right on there just IS

What one believes to be true, will come true... wanna see me walk through the wall?!

Then again Im just crazy, right?

[Wazron]

So the Ayes have it then?

Oay so the Scientists don't like the 'Spirituality' thing. Fine. That's why you have serious discussion forums for on-topic, scientific discussion. Others do not like the analogy of spirituality being a path, presumably because they are uncomfortable ascribing physical qualities to the physically unquantifiable. Still others dislike the word spirituality as this has become associated with other religious teachings who have not practiced humanocentric spirituality.

Unfortunately, the Magic and Witchcraft forum is essentially a forum examining esoteric, arcane or philosophical issues concerned with the lives of our community (and their thriving collection of garden gnomes).

As such I have had to select a title fitting of the forum, and unless anyone can come up with a justifiable alternative that *nobody* has objections to, I am asking Torsten to rename the forum as soon as is convenient for him.

Sorry to those disappointed by my decision, but please don't let it stop you from posting there.

wazron

Thought for the day: I watched the 'Life of Brian' last night and trying to get you buggers to agree on anything is like the last 20 minutes of that movie. Yeesh!

[Adrian]

Originally posted by auto302823:

I don't like "spirit"-ual for all the reasons in the other topic: as in the sense of our lingering spirit after death.

(sci.)Energy can't be created nor destroyed.

It is a constant flow, rearranging and distributing.

From a snowflake to car crash there is a similar yet discernibly different blueprint of "order",..cause and effect.

Since a star blew apart and created our solar system, particals have been gradually collating.

One mass orbits another in a stella gravitional dance like an electron around an a nucleus, the planets around the sun, the moon around the earth.

Think for one moment about who we are...

forget the process of evolution, and remember back to the source.

The big bang, the star, the sun, the light.

We are infact made from condensed light, are we not?

We are perpetualy dependant on light for our own sustainance.

So all this is starting to sound like some biblical suff about eternal light, yet it's rational (as it pertains to logic??).

What use has a psychedelic without a brain?

"..with our thoughts we create the world..."

My suggestion for forum name: Entheo(generator) or something like that.

[Adrian]

EntheOgenrA