Best crops for survival gardening

[MikeyMagic]

In my back yard I have a native bee hive of Trigona carbonaria.

They are set up in honey supers, but I havnt bothered to collect any yet.

It should be full by now, they are slow producers but the honey is more intense for flavour.

[Bigred]

the best way to start beekeeping is to get a nuclei hive witch is a queen with about 500 workers

stillman if you would like a nuclei hive i can give you one in spring . It cost me about 200 to setup

but i have made 6 nuclei hives and have a bit of wax which i trade for new beekeeping

equipment . You will fall in love with your hive and mine dont mind me but hate other animals.

Once my dog followed me up and they swarmed and attacked him . Just make sure to get

apis melifera as the African varieties are always super pissed off and just attack you

also stillman a great company to get equipment from is john f guifoyle he is a legend

and will always help you out

http://www.johnlguilfoyle.com.au/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_honey_bee

[Stillman]

the Wife says No at home, I have native bees which work my yard . But I may approach the local Gardening group and see if I can have a go down there? So I might be very interested in a nuclei if they say yes to some assistance.

[Bigred]

i can do native hive's as well so the next nuclei hive i get i can send your way but it will

not be until spring and the cost of the hive itself is 40 bucks. also you can rent spots in the

state forest which is great when following the honey trails and making certain flavour

honey's

[Stillman]

Do you build the hives for natives?

[Bigred]

No i just buy them of a dude at mount nebo i use a small two stage

hive that can be split in half to make two smaller hives when the

colony is big enough to do so

Edited January 25, 2013 by bigred82

[Stillman]

Were do you source your hew nucleus do you have a arborist friend? I know a guy who works for the council who gets them out of water meters. What species T . carbonaria? They are very interesting creatures especially if you take into account the possible loss of Euro bees from hive collaps african hive beeetles and viruses that threaten their populations.

[Bigred]

yes i nickname them trigs, be very careful when getting hives from the wild as there is a lot of diseases out

there that could spread to your other hives. The DPI does honey testing but native bees dont get the European

diseases but do sometime get mite problems

you can have your name with the council and when they need a swarm removed they call you (European mainly )

but you might get the occasional native hive as well . Also leave your number at saw mills and say you will give a

reward for the hive.

Edited January 26, 2013 by bigred82

[Optimystic]

Did anyone say Prickly Pears? For fruits and cladodes..

also if it hasnt been mentioned, superfoods like Goji which are super tolerant of cold, even seedlings can survive sub zero temps, but I hear they don't fare we well in the heat... plus with goji's the leaves are edible for making soup..

there is a series on youtube called "Eat the Weeds" that has a few vids on different weeds an their nutritional value and how to cook them..

Im looking into Sea Buckthorne and Lingon Berries as well as more blueberry varieties and already got a buncha fruit trees...

Someone said eggplants are extra hardy... must be some varieties... at least one variety I planted this year, every one of them went to crap with the first frost... I didn't pull any up so maybe they'll grow back but also these only produced deformed fruits that didn't ripen correctly so maybe a bad batch or something

Blackberries are hella nutritous too and once established will make alot of runners for new plants... some make tea with the leaves I heard...

and maybe consider flax (the one used for flax seed omega oils and not the plant grown for its fibrous leaves) and some wheat grass or barley for good nutrition... both for sprouts, juicing and grains... maybe some alfalfa too...

just some thoughts!

Edited January 26, 2013 by Spine Collector

[gtarman]

^^

That's a good youtube series, Eat The Weeds.

Shortly was telling me about how prickly pear is quite difficult to cultivate for food in Australia now since it was an uber-weed and they brought in an uber-moth that eats it bare and now the moths have won

[Stillman]

Try the Selenicereus Hylocereus and Cereus species perhaps, I am not a big fan of prickly pear they taste awesome but the prickles are very unforgiving.

[MikeyMagic]

Blackberries are hella nutritous too and once established will make alot of runners for new plants...

Whilst part of me agree's with the permaculture aspects of this plant, I am also aware of its ranking as a weed of national significance.

http://www.weeds.org.au/WoNS/blackberry/

There is a native Rubis spp. "The native raspberry"

Slightly less invasive than blackberry.

These perform equally well in Queensland at the very least but I would anticipate it would perform well where ever blackberry grows.

[MikeyMagic]

Shortly was telling me about how prickly pear is quite difficult to cultivate for food in Australia now since it was an uber-weed and they brought in an uber-moth that eats it bare and now the moths have won

Thats ok!

I saw films of infested areas which had previously been cleared for farming.

There was no way those prickly little bastards could be an effective producer of food for the simply reason you would only be able to get on the edge of a thicket of these...and they were BIG thickets!

"Acknowledged as one of the greatest biological invasions of modern times, the introduction and subsequent spread of prickly pear into Queensland and New South Wales had infested millions of hectares of rural land by the 1920s, rendering it useless for agriculture. Prickly pear proved so difficult and costly to control by chemical and mechanical means that enormous areas were simply abandoned by their owners."

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Biosecurity_EnvironmentalPests/IPA-Prickly-Pear-Story-PP62.pdf

Maybe a little in your outer permaculture 'zones' but by and large probably not considering this is a declared weed!

"Prickly pears (Opuntia spp.) are either declared Class 1 or Class 2 pest plants under Queensland legislation. Class 1 pests established in Queensland are subject to eradication from the state. Landowners must take reasonable steps to keep land free of Class 1 pests. It is a serious offence to introduce, keep or supply a Class 1 pest without a permit issued by Biosecurity Queensland and penalties apply. O. ficus-indica is not declared. O. stricta, O. aurantiaca, O. monacantha, O. tomentosa and O. streptacantha species are Class 2 declared pest plants.

Biosecurity Queensland encourages people to report Class 1 pest plants and take actions to help stop the establishment, prevent the spread of and control all declared pests in Queensland."

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/4790_7343.htm

To the best of my knowledge the introduction of the Cactoblastis spp for control of a pest species was the first use of a "biological control agent".

Edit: ...first successfull use

Edited January 27, 2013 by MikeyMagic

[shortly]

The advantage of Opuntia's especialy ficus indica, is the pads are quite edible & reasonably tasty once you get used to the texture.

There are quite a few clones with improved fruit & reduced spines but the seeds are sill large & hard which is a bit of an issue.

The local rasberrys aren't anywhere near as tough or forgiving as blackberrys, outside of their home ranges (& with changing climate even within them in some places) they often need babying to keep them alive through the vagaries of 21 century weather.

[shortly]

As it points out not all the prickly pears are scheduled spp MM, O ficus indica is still fair game and wild crafting the few remaining wild patches is worthwhile. unless of course the PTB make it an offense to possess any part dead or alive like they did with tilapia, that worked well for eradication

I'll adjust this to

Oh and lets not forget who, when & why prickly pears FIRST were brought here.

Edited to better reflect what i intended.

Edited January 27, 2013 by shortly

[whitewind]

Note that Prickly Pears are a weed of land which is already cleared for agriculture. I am fairly sure that in a localised, permaculture style setting the problems would never have gained the same national significance. We can blame intensive agriculture for the enormous mess created by Prickly Pear, not small growers. Not to say that we should completely ignore the weediness potential, but still. Weeds often invade cleared land first, native vegetation after it has become a significant problem on farmland..

[Optimystic]

I didn't realize prickly's had gained such a bad reputation... I mean I had heard they are invasive in some places... My dad used to tell me he would mow them and they'd just grow 1,000 clones... many types are native here and never been much of a real problem ... I never saw a field full of them, just large clumps here and there... but then again I haven't been through all the desert areas... Maybe if they are that invasive then it should be considered to introduce Tortoises to the environment??

There are some not as invasive as others for sure... I can't stand the glochids either, but shit... if you run out of food @ this thread being a survival food thread, then shit, go out and find you some of them invasive food supplies! .. Burn the glochids off first tho lol... Since there are so many widespread there it seems it wouldn't be so wise to keep them in the garden ... I got a Spineless, virtually glochid free type last year... Several ppl sell the same type, but each of them responded to me and told me its just spineless, but still has glochids.. Well I found one which doesn't seem to have glochids either! at least not yet anyhow...

Most of them are fairly nutritious...

as for Blackberries... I've seen them get out of hand... I have a thornless variety that doesnt' send up quite as many runners and I would like it to produce more but its only been a couple years and was transplanted once, but was a clone from a mother plant which didn't do so well in a shady location, whereas a thorned variety, even nearby in the same shade, grows runners all over the damn place.... Rasperries are pretty nutritous I hear... Its pretty much the colorful plants that have alot of the nutritiuos goodies... antioxidants and such...

Im doing alot of focusing on berries myself, and Im gonna learn this year how to make preserves like my Granny used to make...

[Stillman]

If you find a glochids free prickly pear I would be interested in some seed.

[shortly]

There are a couple of glochid free prickly pears but they dont come true to type from seed, the type can only be propagated asexually. Or there is always room for someone else to breed another prickless cultivar.

Remind me the next time i'm down your way Stillman & i'll fix you up, its not entirely glochid free but dammed close to it.

[Stillman]

Sounds good Shortly.

[Stillman]

I have some I costata and a few other bit sand pieces for you too.

[Optimystic]

The one I've got is Cacanapa cv Ellisiana... or Tigertongue... I never even thought of trying seeds but it will be some time anyhow before I get to that point.. I started with 3 pads and they've each put out 1 or 2 new pads and going in the ground as soon as our last possible freeze date... I bought another one labeled "Spineless" but had glochids so huge they may as well have been called spines...

I will be on the lookout for another spineless variety so I can try and crossbreed them someday... that would be neat to come up with a whole new variety that is spineless, especially one that may be best suited for a good grafting stock... certainly they are much easier to eat but the blue ones aren't favored for flavor and I wouldn't know the difference... if there was a way to get a pad over there I'd try to send one maybe later on but from what Im hearing it sounds like it may pose a challenge..

Edited January 31, 2013 by Spine Collector

[shortly]

Wow that Opuntia cacanapa cv Ellisiana is a ripper Spine Collector, another one for me to keep an eye out for should it happen to be floating about Oz anywheres.

It would be worth keeping an eye out for Opuntia ficus-indica burbank spineless, Burbanks sold them far & wide for years so there's bound to be some pop up for sale or trade in your neck of the woods from time to time. Although i cant vouch for their cold hardiness??

There are a few other largely spineless Opuntia cultivars in existence but i cant remember their names off the top of my head & i'm not at my home PC with all my lists of whats what.

[waterboy 2.0]

I came across a patch of opuntias growing "wild" down here a few months back, came across them when out in the field and the first time I've ever found them growing wild. Found a patch of mixed spikey/very spikey and non-spikey variants growing in a brownfields infill site. They were fruiting at the time with a lot of fruit, a purplish fruit reasonable tasting straight off the pad. No idea of the species.

They would be copping cold/frost/rain/wind, which is what really got my interest.

The mother pad is how the whole plant looked, tallest plants about a metre with good branch structure.

Edited January 31, 2013 by waterboy

[Heretic]

I once knew a guy in Darwin who was a kind of hermit - survivalist , who had a camp beside a creek on the edge of the mangroves . He had been sowing and harvesting some type of yam he was very enthusiastic about - I think he called it a " winged bean " because of the seed , but he had been harvesting and eating the tubers . Once established his plants grew without watering . I think aboriginal people also value this plant as a food source .... btw , Prickly Pear was a huge problem in Australia earlier last century , decimating huge areas of farmland , esp in Qld . I'm not certain of this , but seem to recall that all Opuntias are now prohibited in Qld . Anyway , P P eradication is one of the few successful biological pest control attempts - achieved by introducing an insect called " Cactoblasti " . [ wish they could find similar to eradicate cane toads ] .