Am I Un-Australian??

[incognito]

i suppose child molestation is more transparent in those communities because of the social welfare that's already out there, plus the smaller number of ppl living there as opposed to the cities.

in the cities no one has any idea what goes on behind closed doors cos there aren't really any communities (in the literal sense), ppl in our urban societies keep to themselves, for the most part.

maybee so, but no more prevalent than other sectors of sociaety.

plus the big song and dance the media put up concerning these issues only served to isolate this culture further.

(maybee to make Johnny Howard look like he was pro-active in assisting leading up to an election)

as for the whole 'child molestation ' thing up north, where the army and social welfare units where sent in, i couldnt find anything more insulting if i were an aboriginal parent. that message blatently said to me 'aboriginals molest their children'

Um... they do. Should white parents be insulted when they hear about cases of child abuse in other white families? scratchhead.gif

yeah no shit IB, i was more alluding to the fact that it made it seem as 'All aboriginals molest their children, and was certainly the interperatation by the bundjalung guys i worked with.

never has a culture been isolated like that with implications of widespread child abuse.

the way the media whored it was disgusting and insulting.

never has child abuse in white familys been given the media horseplay that pre-election jive did.

descrimination. like i said, it should have been a crack down on child abuse country wide. not isolating it as an indiginous problem.

Because of base political opportunism combined with the fact that child abuse, like every other social ill, is hugely over-represented amongst aboriginal people... much more than could account for white people being somehow more discreet when they abuse their kids.

hugely over represented, r u saying that social ills and child abiuse is more represented in aboriginal coulture than the rest of australian culture? if so i think thats very discriminatory.

Edited January 28, 2008 by jono

[chilli]

never has a culture been isolated like that with implications of widespread child abuse.

Hm, are you sure about that?

the way the media whored it was disgusting and insulting.

Which is what I was referring to when I said "base political opportunism"

never has child abuse in white familys been given the media horseplay that pre-election jive did.

descrimination. like i said, it should have been a crack down on child abuse country wide. not isolating it as an indiginous problem.

Just because the media and government use and distort the information to further their own agendas doesn't mean the information is incorrect, and if child abuse is grossly overrepresented amongst aboriginal Australians, that makes it an indigenous problem...

I just realized we are talking at cross purposes.

When I say "indigenous problem" I mean you have to take into account the particularly tragic circumstances that many aboriginals face from malnourished birth to early death... this is acknowledging the very real social problems indigenous Australians have to deal with through no fault of their own, and they won't go away by simply saying they don't exist.

When you say "indigenous problem" you seem to be referring to the idea that aborigines have an innate propensity to abuse their children... this is simple racism, and it is not what I am saying at all.

hugely over represented, r u saying that social ills and child abiuse is more represented in aboriginal coulture than the rest of australian culture? if so i think thats very discriminatory.

Please refrain from accusing me of racial discrimination unless you have some idea of what you are talking about, and I don't mean just things you made up in your head. I'm not discriminating, well not in the way you mean it... it's a fact that nearly every aboriginal I have known would have no problem acknowledging, maybe you could try assimilating it when you get over trying to sound so politically correct.

[incognito]

im not trying to sound politically correct, nor am i trying to have an argument with u IB.

im expressing my feelings and views is all, and conveying discussions that i have had with aboriginal friends and collegues.

never has a culture been isolated like that with implications of widespread child abuse.

Hm, are you sure about that?

not in australian culture in my experience, save the catholic church.tell me others?

Just because the media and government use and distort the information to further their own agendas doesn't mean the information is incorrect, we r speakin different languages i feel... doesnt distort mean alter,change? and if child abuse is grossly overrepresented amongst aboriginal Australians, that makes it an indigenous problem...

When you say "indigenous problem" you seem to be referring to the idea that aborigines have an innate propensity to abuse their children... this is simple racism, and it is not what I am saying at all.

hmmmmmm. i know that ur not racist man. im just saying that chidabuse accurs in EVERY culture, and instead of pinpointing the aboriginals, the plight should have been australia wide, regardless of cultural boundaries. all it did was serve to isolate.

Please refrain from accusing me of racial discrimination unless you have some idea of what you are talking about, and I don't mean just things you made up in your head. I'm not discriminating, well not in the way you mean it...

huh?

which way are u discriminating IB? be clear man, i mean nice wordsmithery im very impressed but jebus christ....what do u mean?

it's a fact that nearly every aboriginal I have known would have no problem acknowledging, maybe you could try assimilating it when you get over trying to sound so politically correct.

assimilate what? that child abuse goes on in aboriginal culture? dah man, same as our nice white one, same as alcoholism and drugs, and domestic violence. maybee YOU should meet more aboriginals and get to know them, maybee u could assimilate that, without trying to sound so very clever, and u may see that their problems are very much our own.

politically correct? huh? what would i know of politics? what are u saying?

im deadset sick of these arguments on here, its deadset just come down to a battle of who thinks themselves the most witty.

Edited January 28, 2008 by jono

[Sparkster]

hugely over represented, r u saying that social ills and child abuse is more represented in aboriginal coulture than the rest of australian culture? if so i think thats very discriminatory

I don't see how that can be discriminatory if the objective is to help here Jono... its obvious there are widespread issues of alcoholism throughout rural aborigine communities, its unfortunate but the truth, nothing derogitory is intented to verify which demographics are struggling with certain issues.

When entire demographics of society are being alluded to being either for/against certain things it simplifies things far to much and causes alot of frustration.Once Kevin Rudd does say sorry, there will be journos running around different aborigine community leaders asking "do ya forgive?" "does it make a difference?" and there will be a range of different answers. Hopefully it will at least mean something positive to some people. I just hope that people don't dismiss the gesture just because it doesn't satisfy all. Some will appreciate the symbolic gesture, others will only want monetary compensation.

I think that most of european non-indiginous are very eager to do something or anything they can to try and get things on the right path, (after previous governments doing very little) and its a great thing to see.

[incognito]

hugely over represented, r u saying that social ills and child abuse is more represented in aboriginal coulture than the rest of australian culture? if so i think thats very discriminatory

I don't see how that can be discriminatory if the objective is to help here Jono... its obvious there are widespread issues of alcoholism throughout rural aborigine communities, its unfortunate but the truth, nothing derogitory is intented to verify which demographics are struggling with certain issues.

im not 100%certain that the motive was that pure.

how about all the rural white pissheads? someones gottastop those fuckers,they are dangerous!

on the subject of alcoholism man, ur preaching to the choir. definatley not an isolated 'aboriginal' problem.

cmon man i grew up in a rural white town, where EVERYONE was an alco, and children were abused all the time.

where was our army and welfare agents?

besides, i still think its dicriminatory to say ' hey u guys, u guys up there are alcoholics and child abusers, u guys gotta stop that , were banning porn and alcohol now stop it!'

' maybee in fancier words, but along those lines, when the same tragic behaviors occur directly under our noses, cross culture

kinda similar to the stolen generation' in ways , where aboriginal kids were taken from familys as they werent deemed able to properly care for them(amongst many other reasons) wheras the same poverty and kids living under similar conditions (or worse) was happening right smack bang in the culture who imposes such actions. see the hypocrisy and discrimination im tying to get at? kinda like its okay for us, but not for u.

i am more at odds with the furore that the media made over such allegations. can u put urself in the place of an aboriginal father walking into a newsagents with their child to buy a paper, and having all the white faces lookingat u , whilst u read those headlines?

a more holistic approach is needed , instead of isolating people into groups, we should be thinking for the whole.

as action like that only further serves to isolate and embarrass.

[husk]

yr right jono it's totally fucked they sent the army in there.

i understand completely what you mean by that action being seen as an insult.

wtf were the army going to do?

i don't really understand why it wasn't left up to the state govt if such action 'had to be' taken?

i guess it would have a lot to do with election showboating.

i also reckon the emphasis placed soley on indigenous child abuse/alcoholism/violence was prolly to draw it more attention in the media and thus get some huge operation underway, again the only sources we have to rely on need to sell papers right?

to reiterate on what Vert said, i'm sure no one engaging in this discussion is a racist or prejudice.

peace x

[Vertmorpheus]

I think all recent posts have been made in pretty good spirit, rarely seen when you look at half a dozen opinions coming from the "outside" of an issue... though I think deep down most of yez feel pretty marginalised in someways anyway, so it can help with the empathy thing. Good point from Xipe on the 4 or 5 lifetimes.

Did we know that by national figures AND those gathered by various state health depts etc, indig aussies actually self report and have been impartially "observed" to have a lower rate of alcoholism than non indig aussies? Thing is, we remember the 5 blacks with a goonie bag under a tree... we dont remember the 500 people at the pub up the road from them.

Some Aussie blackfellas also have extra dollops, in the form of the outskirts-of-town dancehalls etc that sprang up around towns during ww2... at the time segregation was alive n well in both Aus and the US, so the african american troops would often be banished to the shitty clubs out of town, where theyd party down with some local flavour... so next time you see a lil skinny legged Koori kid wearing a Snoop Dogg shirt, remember, he might not be a poser, he might be his cousin Similar thing happened in some coastal and southern areas with Jamaican labourers working on various properties, etc. So that same Koori kid might just have more of a claim over the Wailers than youd immediately guess, too :D

The thing to remember about the sex abuse issue is... it relates to the communities. It doesnt relate to me, sitting here, as a father... it doesnt relate to some guy living in say Lismore... it relates to people in places that are such ghastly little hell holes some people are forced to call home....places that you honestly (not calling anyone stupid or close minded here) could not even begin to concieve of just how sick in the guts some of the things you hear and see in them can make you... or how much you can be made to smile from ear to ear or feel right at home, too. its extremes. You have in many cases townships that right al ot of people are pissheads, petrol sniffers, on the ganj all day, whatever... but at heart theyre "good people".. they make some effort to keep their kids at school, to dress n clean n love em... then theres the bad people, and theyre no different to "normal" bad people you get in nice white areas with cul de sacs and whatnot...theyre resourceful, theyre cunning, theyre manipulative, and theyre cold.

And in "our" communities (nice places, libraries and shit) those people basically have two options, they can run around the street raping people, or they can get into positions of trust, power, authority.. one has a much greater longevity than the other.. and both are forced to operate out of self preservation with some idea of "someone will see me, or theyll find out, and report me, and bad things will happen" but when you live in a township of a hundred people with one or two cops, a handful of govt people... and you know where each and every last one of em sleep and live ... its too easy to just threaten people, hurt people, to keep em quiet. So yeah, people DO report what happens to the kid in the hut next door... then the next day they get macheted, or a lit can of fuel is chucked over em, or they get bashed with star pickets for their troubles.

The govt people, bless em, show up with the best of intentions but just cant stick it out, mostly, and i cant blame em. None of the residents would live there either, if they had a chance to live somewhere else.

then theres the fact that the perpetrators of these kinds of sick attacks (and we are talking here about systemised community level abuse rather than domestic sexual abuse or incest, which is so common in all sections of society youd spew if you knew just how common) whether in white cities or black towns is that theyre usually stunted kinda souls... not quite grown up, perennial kids at heart... hedonists with zero impulse control. And in the same way that we all know or have known those guys that at age 24 are still hanging out with 14 year olds, the same goes in some of those communities... the concept of being "adult" in either traditional OR modern terms is lacking from esp the male psyche (less defining, in comparison to the obvious development of women)... so its not quite as weird to start with for a 30 year old to have a 14 year old "girlfriend"... it still seen as plenty sick by many in the community but its not quite the uproar it would be "here".

anyways... its all a bit fucked up. Some people on "our" side are for the army involvement and the process in generaly, others against it, others are quite for the idea but are sad that the army has to provide to logistics (and thats it...its trucks and comms centres n trained medical staff... its not fuckin assault troopers storming outta APC's or anything)... and in any case in most communities the clinics are being offered as a basically voluntary thing, of course anyone that resists goes on the list as it were but what ppl forget is that the whole genital exam thing bla bla... operates under the same guidelines as any govt. medical officer when it comes to determining who is or isnt to be examined...theyre not lining up a hundred kids naked, or haulin em all off into lil rooms... only those that as a result of other examination AND community liason tipoffs etc warrant the closer exam... last I heard thered been less than a dozen "court ordered" exams out of a couple hundred, in even quite virulent communities.

Of course, Howard and his showboating has a lot to do with it, but as anyone that works with blackfellas knows, if they dont think tis a good idea, it wont get done. they wont go along with it... and in many many communities the majority are quite chuffed, and take great pride in the fact that their kids are "approved" DESPITE having such shitty conditions to raise em in.

Then theres the fact that if the govt does nothing, theyre slack, and if they do something, theyre bastards, and if they do something general and across the board then its not taking account of the needs and interests of subsections of society bla bla...and if they specialise it, then its racism, bigotry, whatever. Why is it racist to have indig health initiatives, esp when the areas they happen in have had indig health clinics on n off for decades... but not racist to offer say indigenous training incentives? Personally I took a smidgen of offence...no not that bad... a microsmidgen...at whoever basically said all blackfellas are naturally made for football...which is bullshit...but its favourable bullshit so we let it slide.. like efficient germans or cunning swedes or sensual french people.

It's not a perfect response to the problem, nor was it hyped or promoted very sensibly either... the mental pic was one of stormtroops and crying kids and the reality is closer to "thank fuck, i can finally get this lump on my little bloke neck looked at, finally, call this modern culture, bla bla" or "hey those big strapping bastards that arent from here might just do something about the sly fuck up the road that keeps trading buds and bundy for blowjobs from 10 year olds".

the thing that occured to me though, was the defintions... who is more "suspect"... a "hybrid" with niceish clothes and manners living in a down n out community, or a "full blood" (horrible term, FYI here you are either Aboriginal or you are not) that lives like a scumbag living in a larger mixed community... the problem once you start laying down laws is people get squashed under the fuckers... and there will always be roaches drawn to the dark safety of hiding under the line once its down and at rest.

But yes, very good point from brain that white folks would be just as upset if the shoe was on the other foot, say they heard about some place in Africa all the pale people are getting lined up and swabbed, or something, for being "rapists"... and an equally good point from Jono that every time the word "aboriginal" comes up on the news, some people have just a lil bit harder time of it , the next day.

Thing with that is, people will never believe what they dont want to believe, that quickly ;) There are prejudicial racists, and evidential racists... one has a theory and views the world to suit, the other has a theory and will change the world to suit.

Sick fucks all round, and its NOT a perfect solution, but then it never is, is it. Least out in the towns the kiddy fiddlers can theoretically be prosecuted...here in the land of the brand new car anytime we have massive series of dawn raids on kiddy porn makers etc... they can only chase ppl so far before htey start running into cops, teachers, govt officials, judges, people who know people who kill people, etc. All I know is one culture of abuse stands a much better chance at coming to some kind of close in the next hundred years, and its not the one based around private schools and "weekend retreats".

VM

edity bit... to reiterate...the army is not running amok out west with landmines and machineguns, the units sent are basically medical units, logistic supports, some engineers, but mainly medical and transport units... no other govt dept has the resources or wherewithall to provide that much coverage and they are trying to some extent to catch sickos as they try to dodge from town to town, as they have in the past when faced with localised threats from minor depts. have to rememebr these are federal territories, not state, they simply dont have as many options to start with... in any case... it sounds over the top, but the rael picture is nothing like youd first imagine. Truth is the army has done a lot of construction and relief work not only out there but in many other parts of the world, esp south east asia of late... its not just about shooting people and if someone turns up with a smile, some manners, and wants to help you out, noone tends to take much hatred towards them. You cant think of it as an armoured division rolling up your street past other doctors and free clinics, community groups etc... think of it as a space marine ship dropping by to check if youre ok while living on the fuckin Moon. Feedback from the locals in these communities is generally positive and in some cases the boys n girls in poo brown n green have been just about adopted by the locals... help is help, they dont get political for fun like us more privelidged people seem to

Edited January 28, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[chilli]

hugely over represented, r u saying that social ills and child abuse is more represented in aboriginal coulture than the rest of australian culture? if so i think thats very discriminatory

I don't see how that can be discriminatory if the objective is to help here Jono... its obvious there are widespread issues of alcoholism throughout rural aborigine communities, its unfortunate but the truth, nothing derogitory is intented to verify which demographics are struggling with certain issues.

im not 100%certain that the motive was that pure.

assimilate what? that child abuse goes on in aboriginal culture? dah man, same as our nice white one, same as alcoholism and drugs, and domestic violence. maybee YOU should meet more aboriginals and get to know them, maybee u could assimilate that, without trying to sound so very clever, and u may see that their problems are very much our own.

Fuck you Jono, you don't know anything about me, so how can you make those assumptions?

I've known many aboriginal people quite well over the years, and been intimately involved with a few. From drinking and smoking and crazy parties with the guys in the neighborhood I grew up in, to the AMS crew from my wife's work (she was in aboriginal health, rural and then urban, for the first 5 years of our relationship) coming around for BBQ's and parties, to the three kids we babysat for a weekend to give their mum a break and ended up fostering for over 6 months (the story of my life... we have another ten year old arriving this week, the third so far). Of course, growing up where I did I've had a few run-ins too... my little brother and sister got bashed by some aboriginal kids (my mum chased them, screaming, halfway across the neighborhood), I saw a dude getting bashed and tried to calm the basher down and got hit (although his mum made him apologize to 'that nice white boy' :D), the old drunks at the train station who it seemed I was constantly buying pies and choc milk for because I felt conflicted about giving them cash, and of course the fucked up parents who dumped their kids on us while they ran around the country spending the family payments.

Funniest one (in hindsight) is my wife going into a closed community as the doctor and seeing one of the elders bashing the shit out of his 17 year old pregnant woman with a stick while the rest of the community watched helplessly because he was an elder. My wife, used to dealing with children mostly, stormed up to him and said peremptorily (sory) "Stop that! Give me that stick!" and got knocked over and nearly copped a bashing herself for her trouble.

The point of saying all this, for the slow witted, is that I have been through almost exactly the same situations with white people and maori, the good and the bad (actually, the parallel bad sitches in whitefella world have often been far worse for example my my sister, holding her toddler getting bashed with a torch by her step-dad, and her fiancee and the kid's dad running away like a little frightened puppy or my parents dumping three more of their kids on me, except it lasted 3 years and the parents both had houses and jobs, non-abusive spouses etc... plus, I'm sure I've bought pies and choc milk for more white alcoholics than brown. FFS.) I don't think that aboriginals or anyone else are intrinsically any certain way, which is the essence of racism, just that everybody is fucked up, the world is a fucked up place to be and there's lots of bad people who will fuck you up with a few good ones who will just fuck you.

Did I pass? Do I qualify as non-discriminatory now?

Are these references sufficient, or shall I dig up some more? Have I allayed your suspicions about my motives yet?

What a bunch of stupid fucking crap...

politically correct? huh? what would i know of politics? what are u saying?

im deadset sick of these arguments on here, its deadset just come down to a battle of who thinks themselves the most witty.

Fuck off then. I'm sick of getting blamed for 'arguing' by people too ignorant to keep up their end of the conversation.

Edited January 28, 2008 by IllegalBrain

[chilli]

This was a double post, so I thought I might as well use it to justify how non-racist I am even further (I'm not homophobic, I have heaps of gay friends )

To a clear up your confusion about what I meant by discriminating/not discriminating, let me refer you to something Vert said (it's more authoritative because he's indigenous ):

Why is it racist to have indig health initiatives, esp when the areas they happen in have had indig health clinics on n off for decades... but not racist to offer say indigenous training incentives? Personally I took a smidgen of offence...no not that bad... a microsmidgen...at whoever basically said all blackfellas are naturally made for football...which is bullshit...

Do you get it now? One (technical, neutral) form of discrimination is addressing a social demographic, the other (common, racist) form makes judgments about people based on the color of their skin...

sorr y if that woz a bit to deap or wittie for ya mate , Ill tryna keep it simple from now on, k mate ? see, im changeing the way i rite to make it easi er to get stuff dont wanna sound too clevr,mite stand out a bit and peeps wont liek me s K LOL WUT?

Edited January 28, 2008 by IllegalBrain

[Sparkster]

Vert...

You put so much effort into your posts, write so straight forward & illustrate what people are trying to 'get at'.

Well done! your a cleverer cookie :D

[incognito]

orr y newimprovedwinkonclear.gif if that woz a bit wacko.gif to deap or wittie for ya mate ohmy.gif , Ill tryna keep it simple from now on, k mate cool.gif ? see, im changeing wub.gif the way i rite to make it easi er to get stuff unsure.gif blink.gif dont wanna sound too clevr,mite stand out a bit and peeps wont liek me s K LOL WUT?

ah Ib , ur never one to toot ur own horn now are u?

yeah for such a witty guy IB, i never alluded to you being a racist.

me being unsure of 'impure motives' regards the govts move up north into the communitys, which could well have had multiple purposes, one topic that has been brought up has been thescoping out of aboriginal owned land for mining.

but yeah sure sorry IB, its all about you, your sooooo right!! all the time!

sorry for having an opinion and putting it forth.

Fuck you Jono, you don't know anything about me, so how can you make those assumptions?

Fuck off then. I'm sick of getting blamed for 'arguing' by people too ignorant to keep up their end of the conversation.

Yep, ur a regular genius IB, thats right ur the supreme,knowledgable, articulate being IB, everyone else are stupid and ignorant.

The indidgenous community is well presented here in YT and Vert, sorry guys for this spat, i was really only offering my opinion, and conveying convos ive had with my bundjalung mates.

But yeah seems ive given IB a hard-on, and cant be bothered trying to convey what i feel when hes full of the fuck-yous.

[paradox]

you guys are being very un-Australian......no wait, you actually sound like a couple of bogans.

c'mon, f@#kin smash tha c%nt!!!

[husk]

Vert...

You put so much effort into your posts, write so straight forward & illustrate what people are trying to 'get at'.

Well done! your a cleverer cookie :D

totally, if yr not writing a book or somthn you should be, i find yr posts most informative and entertaining.

how gooey , but that's just me. i apologise for raising a touchy subject but i have learnt a lot and am thankful it's is being talked about in some way.

so thanks guys, yr all tops and i love youse all.

peace x

[Sparkster]

Wondered how long it would take for a shit fight in this thread LOL!!!

Theres a unanimous consensus in this topic that Australians indigenious folk havn't had a fair deal in a country that prides it self on everyone given a 'fair go' We all agree that something needs to be done about it.... cool...

I don't see why there should be such personalised emotive attacks on eachother when we all want the same thing, though different ideas how to get 'there'

totally, if yr not writing a book or somthn you should be, i find yr posts most informative and entertaining.

Here Here! Vert needs to be a columist for The Herald Sun to replace that luciferian Andrew Bolt.

[Vertmorpheus]

No no I need Mr. Bolt... he's my bigotometer... without him, I wouldn't have a weeks warning about what the "other side" are "thinking" haha. To me he's like A. phalloides... destructive, ugly, vile, but a good indicator species

Ah, its an old technique to slow progress really... a lil divisiveness goes a long way ;) But its all with good intentions I'm sure.

Gotta wonder eh, if well fed educated types like us can't even juggle a few issues around without starting the hating, what hope does some kid with purple lungs from petrol and gaps in his brain from his mum being knocked around have?

Got some book titles for yez... some deal heavily with the matter at hand, some are more colonial, some biographical... but all worth reading if you want to build up a more accurate picture in your mind.

Aboriginal Australians and Christian Missions - Swain and Rose (this is an EXCELLENT book... but don't read it if you want to think highly of Lutherans ever again)

The Health of Aboriginal Australia - Janice Reed and Peggy Tompf

Australia - The First Hundred Years - The Hon. Andrew Garran MA, LLD, MLC (lots of good info about the colonisiation broken up by state and region, it doesnt go into the poisoning at Dayboro but does cover the one at Kilcoy Station)

Aboriginal Health and History - Ernest Hunter

Generations of Resistance - Lorna Lippman

Is That You Ruthie - Story of Cherbourg Dormitory Girl - Ruth Hegarty

Dumping Ground - A History of Cherbourg Settlement - Thom Blake (Cherbourg... check it out someday)

Snake Cradle - Roberta Sykes

My Place - Sally Morgan (both these are good for my fellow hybrids, and anyone that has a hard time understanding why we now have plenty of blonde blue eyed blackfellas... and why those types cop the bullshit from BOTH sides)

A change of ownership - Aboriginal Land Rights - Mildred Kirk

No Ordinary Judgement - Nonie Sharp - (mabo from the inside)

Box the Pony - Scott Rankin and Leah Purcell (Leah is easily one of the cleverest, cheekiest, hardest women I have ever met... amazing to meet people that are hardened but not bitter)

Black Chicks Talking - Leah Purcell ( stories from Cilla Malone, Deb Mailman, Frances Rings, Kathryn Hay, Liza Frazer-Gooda, Rachel Perkins (Charlies daughter, filmmaker), Rosanna Angus, Sharon Finnan, Tammy Williams)

There's also a shitload of good things to be had from various university and govt. bookshops, JCU press esp. has a lot of good things out... also you can usually get a lend of some books or a stack of pamphlets etc if you put the friendly word in at say indig health clinics, govt. depts, NGO's, etc.

Then, once you've read it, share it... only way anythings going to change.

VM

[chilli]

yeah for such a witty guy IB, i never alluded to you being a racist.

me being unsure of 'impure motives' regards the govts move up north into the communitys, which could well have had multiple purposes, one topic that has been brought up has been thescoping out of aboriginal owned land for mining.

O RLY?

You said I was being "very discriminatory" and then when Sparkster said "I don't see how that can be discriminatory if the objective is to help here Jono..." you said "im not 100%certain that the motive was that pure"

What did you mean by saying I was being "very discriminatory" if not that I was being racist?

I'm just sick of people discriminating against me for being smarter than them

Edited January 30, 2008 by IllegalBrain

[ajna]

figure i'll post this here while it's slightly on topic, can re/move if we need to

Vert or anyone else, are you familiar with the writer Brett Green who wrote of Aboriginal culture in SEQ? the reason i ask is that i have secondhand info stating that there's an interesting description from his series 'Tales of a Warrior', apparently based on his great grandfather's experiences in the 1860s, where an english fella is treated to a smoke with some locals "with a blob of resin on top" and that upon smoking "spirits instantly rose from the ground and carried him to a higher plane etc".

but....seem's this Green guy is considered a bit of a controversial writer, mainly in relation to the "gympie pyramid" which he's researched and written about from what i can gather. still, would like to know if the description is actually in the book and if it is assess the validity then.

apologies for off-topicness, some great reading in this thread, cheers

[-YT-]

good posts Vert fosure

Cheers for posting all the book references aswell man! Many thanks

[incognito]

cheers for the insight and for the book titles vert.

[Vertmorpheus]

never read it or met him, Green that is... but as for the resin on a smoko sending you into space, I once heard a tale about mice running up a clock that might be of interest to the exploratorially minded people out there. Leaves you something to think about haha.

Having said that, a nice ball of bush tobacco will send most younglungs into space too... or maybe they scored some opium gum from some passing Chinese miners.

Reminds me of an online legend about "tough vertical strips of reddish inner bark" that I believe is mistakenly atttributed to a certain comely maiden some of us have met before. I know there IS a species with tough strippy bark, red tarry inner bark, white-yellow spike flowers prone to appearing in creeklines, with veryvery fragrant leaves... somewhere between polystyrene and pepper... but its for more inquisitive minds than mine to explore, though I don't mind the odd leaf in a smoke mix.

No worries for the books, as I dig more out of my compost heap I mean spare room and the oldies library I'll put the names up... as I said when you try to recall off your head, they all sound the same!

We're all pink on the inside

VM

[Auntyjack]

you guys are being very un-Australian......no wait, you actually sound like a couple of bogans.

c'mon, f@#kin smash tha c%nt!!!

Huharhahahah.........thats priceless Para!

[chilli]

"c'mon, f@#kin smash tha c%nt!!!"

No, I still love Jono, I don't want to hurt him... besides, his arms are much more masculine than mine.

[platypii]

Vertmorpheus, that was a great and really honest post. I have sadly to hear much about what indigenous australians think about this "sorry" thing, and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story. Thank you My father, amateur sleuth that he is, traced our ancestry to a convict who arrived in Australia in 1815. Sadly, while there have been 'reports' that we have aboriginal ancestry, my oldest living relatives won't talk to my father about that, and most records have been obscured, intentionally I would say. Me and dad both feel ashamed of our distant family for that- why conceal our past, but I think we are feeling THEIR shame....I don't want to think how the 'blood' got into my family, if that is the case....., but I guess in trying to piece things back together, we're doing something. Peace all...