Mescaline + Syrian Rue

[Guest Monkey Shines]

Does anybody know of an experience with this combination? What doseages would be used?

[Auxin]

I have heard conflicting reports concerning the combo, so proceed with caution. If one were to do such a study it would be important to use pure synthetic mescaline rather than the cacti-derived stuff. Most cacti-derived 'mescaline' actually has many other alkaloids mixed in which could alter the effect. Also important would be to use a greatly reduced dose at first just in case of extreme potentiation, or any toxic effects.

Also remember that many commercial sources coat syrian rue seed with poison to 'deter' people from using their product as a drug (the bastards would rather send a person to the hospital than allow them to practice their religious or recreational rites.)

And of course all the MAOI rules apply. No tryptamine containing foods, no alkaloid containing foods, etc...

And of course the standard disclaimers:

IM NOT A DOCTOR

EXPERIMENT AT YOUR OUN RISK

EXPERIMENT ONLY WHERE LEGAL

ETC...

[spiraleyes]

-

And of course all the MAOI rules apply. No tryptamine containing foods, no alkaloid containing foods, etc...

-

no tryptamine containing foods?? oops

[Guest si]

Mes comes in many forms and therefore varying dosage requirements. You've got mescaline acetate, mescaline citrate, mescaline hydrochloride and of course freebase mes. What you end up with depends on the type of extraction used (acid, sulphuric, solvent etc..). I would recommend you specifically identify WHAT TYPE of Mes your using before attempting a combination with a MAOi.

here's what Shulgin said:

(with 100 mg harmaline, 60 mg mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine) [20 min]) "At two hours I was in a pleasant state of physical relaxation, a fine sense of well being, and I found music most enjoyable. From then to the fourth hour, thoughts flowed freely, and it became obvious that insight was a major part of this experience. Normally unconscious thoughts were easily available. It was as if I could observe my mind in operation, as facts were weighed to form conclusions. By the sixth hour music was a thing of beauty, with the higher notes crisp and clear. The harmaline has probably worn off. Sleep at eight hours, and the next day was without any adverse effects. This was a remarkable experience, the insight of TMA, and the relaxation of MDMA."

(with 150 mg harmaline, 100 mg mescaline [15 min]) "A stomach ache developed at about 45 minutes, followed by a mild nausea which occurred intermittently throughout the next six hours. I felt comfortable, although there was a slight discoordination at about two hours. Walking was never a problem but did require more concentration than normal. Colors on the television were obviously more intense, and highly saturated at this point and moderate photophobia developed. Even a fire in the fireplace was distracting, and stereo was best enjoyed in the dark. Attempts at sleep did not work until the ninth hour. Upon awakening there was a feeling of dehydration but otherwise no ill effects. Mild looseness of stools was present later that morning. Since experiments using only mescaline at doses between 80 and 120 mg resulted in no CNS effects at all, it seems clear that the MAO blocking effects of the harmaline were crucial to this experience

also:

Harmala Combinations

P. harmala (Syrian Rue)

by Toad

One would hope that readers are familiar with the cautionary requirements of dicking around with ones MOAI's in combination with centrally active compounds.

I've had my share of scare's... pumping veins and all. Personally I havn't found very many aplications for the betacarbolines that I continue to use aside from the traditional oral tryptamine (dmt, 5meo, dpt) huasca activation. The one harmala combination that I have yet to try and would like too is mescaline. This combo makes sense, since a large amount of mescaline is usually required and it has been fairly widely reported as being a positive potentiation. Combinations with mdma and other stimulating compounds seem quite ludicrous to me.

The obscure rue combinations known to me are:

with shrums: defintitely intense on the body at high dosage levels, qualitatively different trip.

with 2cb: heard several negative reports, too much physical activation/headache

with mescaline: many positives, a few neggies

with LSD: several positive reports. provides a more earthy grounded feeling.

with DPT: works well huasca style, be very careful with the dosage. Comments from a friend: 'Instead of 100-200 mg oral only 30-80 are needed.

Also the oral DPT bodyload was greatly reduced.'

with 5meODMT: increases effects, some report worrisome physical symptoms

with Psilocybin: Many people report positive work with this, but can increase darkside and increase length, intensity, bodyload

iRiNi

si

[coin]

i think you'd maybe wanna be more careful with peyote than trichs

[Guest reville]

what about MAOi's

and Muscaria?

Even though the MAO might not target the active - Harmala alkaloids have their own effect independent of their inhibitory activity

[Gwydion]

A friend of mine had muscaria and harmal together once. He claims it to be the most profound experience of his life. (And refuses to talk about it, so I don't know what he saw or experienced)

[Guest Mesqualero]

Originally posted by coin:

i think you'd maybe wanna be more careful with peyote than trichs

Don't some Trichocerei contain Tyramine? I thought anything with this substance in it was a no no with MAOI

[Guest Monkey Shines]

I had a look on erowid at http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_g...ti_guide2.shtml

It has a comprehensive list of other chemicals (including tyramine) in various cacti. Does anyone know which extraction would give relatively pure mescaline?

[waterdragon]

feast yer optics hither:

http://users.lycaeum.org/~iamklaus/extract.htm

http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/Extracti...ids.13422.shtml

http://chemhead.homelinux.com/sanpedro.html

hope all that works

[Auxin]

"Does anyone know which extraction would give relatively pure mescaline?"

That depends on your definition of relatively. If you mean that the product would be a mixture of 85%+ various alkaloids then most methods would work.

If you mean which method would give you a product that is 90% mescaline or better, then none of them! I have never seen a procedure on the internet that removes the majority of other alkaloids, but thats OK because such procedures are usually beyond the ability of non-chemists (too much lab work, too much costly materials, not to mention the environmental impact of improper disposal of waste)

A few chemists have done it way back in the olden days but nowadays if a chemist wants pure mescaline he synthesizes it- it is a simple compound. Of course they can also buy it legally from Sigma - pure synthetic mescaline hydrochloride 0.100g for $23.65 USD, its just too bad you need the DEAs OK to buy it.

[Torsten]

some locals use caapi leaves in the cactus brew. it's a nice combo.

[t st tantra]

i'm still trying to explain a very intense sunopener trip,so my sugestion is heimia + rue.i'll get to it eventually if no one else does.

t s t .

[WarpedAstro]

This website has instructions how to extract pure mescaline:

http://peyote.com/jonstef/peyote.htm#Anchor3

it's very useful site, covering facts for peyotes and san pedros.

BTW, I am bit curious and confused about "MAOI" rules, so for example, If I'm planning to go on peyote or whatever trip, I have to be careful what I eat before eating peyotes or while I'm on peyotes or both?? Is that why the Indians fast for couple of days before eating peyotes?? Cheers Warped Astro

[Auxin]

"This website has instructions how to extract pure mescaline: http://peyote.com/jonstef/peyote.htm#Anchor3 "- WarpedAstro

That process does not make pure mescaline, its a (dangerous) alkaloid extraction that only removes SOME of the non-mescaline alkaloids.

Also, avoid any instructions involving benzene (toluene can be used instead, benzene is just too damned toxic.)

[Guest Monkey Shines]

Originally posted by Auxin:

That depends on your definition of relatively.

I mean would the extracted mescaline contain alkaloids that could be harmful in combination with an MAOI eg. Tyramine

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by Torsten:

some locals use caapi leaves in the cactus brew. it's a nice combo.

Now that is interesting.If theres one thing there is no shortage of its capi leaves.

Im going to start a new thread and invite further comment on this.

[theobromos]

If you get to 85% wouldn't recrystallisation be enough to get pretty pure? Assuming you don't mind loss of your target compound, but that can be recovered from the mother liquors.

[Auxin]

Recrystalization would boost the purity of some, but loss would be signifigant and if you tried to recover some of the loss then that fraction would end up bein even less pure.

And still recrystalization would not get it pure. Remember your trying to remove compounds very similar to the target compound, whats best for that is column chromotography. If your wealthy, jobless, patient, and somewhere where its legal you should do that instead.

[Adrian]

A successful experience with mescaline (Tricocereus bridgesii), also involved a combination of syrian rue, ginger & liquorice.

I'll post up a link here as it will probably never make it into the vaults

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[This message has been edited by Adrian (edited 01 July 2002).]

[theobromos]

Interesting, did you include the liquorice for its MAOI effects?