ballzac Posted January 19, 2006 You guys know what I'm talking about. Siddhartha Gautama spoke of the void millenia ago. I see it when I trip hard, do you? If you do, do you embrace it or shun it? I find the void very confronting. All of my dxm experiences have been intertwined with the void, and I'm sure that my original experiences with lsd and the like have had the void in its wake. I s'pose it's here to stay, and accepting it is the only way to have a good trip, but it kinda brings me down. It makes me think about death and stuff, because the void is the only sample we can ever have of nothing at all. Death is (IMHO) the final nothing at all. BTW, I consider myself to be an agnostic. I don't know enoough about buddhism to know how Buddha delt with the void. I s'pose I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions on the void, whether it relates to tripping or buddhism or any other philosophy. I probably should mention that I'm coming down from a fourth/fifth cusp plateau trip as I type this. Have a nice day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted January 21, 2006 I'm surprised no one had anything to say about this yet. For anyone who's interested, I found this: http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-ENG/loy8.htm Although I must admit that I think jpsychedelic drugs generally do the opposite to what is stated in this article. They do not help you avoid the void. They just help you to see it as it is for a little while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted January 21, 2006 life is comic death is tragic life is the circus. a wild production and you only know half your lines death is tragic cos when you exit go just blend back into the crowd. its probably not at all an unpleasant thing once u are on your way there. but its tragic because its the end of your choices, the end of potential. either we cease to exist or we cease to have boundaries which in th eflow of things means mostly the same results that makes me grieve, makes me sad and even angry that i will be robbed of my place in a game im really enjoying playing but im only young. so my hypothesis is that seeing as how i view the world very differently now than 5 years ago or 10 years ago that when i am old i may have a perception quite unlike now in which i feel i have seen and done enough and welcome death the best i can hope for then i guess is that the void/entropy takes me when im ready and not before Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foolsbreath Posted January 23, 2006 I think the void represents fear Fear is necessary for learning Fear imho is the catalyst for our evolution and any animals evolution. It is per chance that our fears have developed far beyond that of any other animal and that it what drives us We Love for fear of lonelyness We hate for fear of hurt We anger for fear of being wronged We scare for fear of the unknown We live for fear of dying All of our emotions are based on our fears When you find the void you are facing your fears, embrace them or push them aside, they are what makes you, you The void is not emptyness or nothingness but masses of information that you know, but are too scared to realise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted January 23, 2006 how did the Buddha deal with the void? please read about "dependent origination" (sometimes "inter-dependent-arising") it is this truth that underlies the 4 noble truth's of buddhism, and is closely intertwined with the the notion of anatta (not-self). however, it is very hard to get to the 'essence' of dependent origination as the buddha saw it, primarily beacuse of scholastic reasons obfuscating the issue. My take is that the whole issue centres around denying language any function of "existential import", thereby excluding the ground of any metaphysicalization. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted January 23, 2006 I think the void represents fear Fear is necessary for learning Fear imho is the catalyst for our evolution and any animals evolution. It is per chance that our fears have developed far beyond that of any other animal and that it what drives us We Love for fear of lonelyness We hate for fear of hurt We anger for fear of being wronged We scare for fear of the unknown We live for fear of dying All of our emotions are based on our fears When you find the void you are facing your fears, embrace them or push them aside, they are what makes you, you The void is not emptyness or nothingness but masses of information that you know, but are too scared to realise I think the void has a strong relationship with fear, but I don't think it directly represents it. Everything you say about our life and emotions being triggered or based on fear is true, but I don't agree with the conclusion that the void is not nothingness. I DO believe that the void is SOMETHING, but only in the same way that darkness is something: the absense of light. I asked a mate what he thought the void is, and he concluded that it is the opposite of thought. It is to thought, as black is to white, Yin is to Yang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted January 23, 2006 how did the Buddha deal with the void?please read about "dependent origination" (sometimes "inter-dependent-arising") it is this truth that underlies the 4 noble truth's of buddhism, and is closely intertwined with the the notion of anatta (not-self). however, it is very hard to get to the 'essence' of dependent origination as the buddha saw it, primarily beacuse of scholastic reasons obfuscating the issue. My take is that the whole issue centres around denying language any function of "existential import", thereby excluding the ground of any metaphysicalization. I never thought of dependant origination having much to do directly with the void (probably because I know very little about it), but I s'pose if it is true that desires are there as a way to 'avoid the void', and desire causes suffering, then we suffer as a result of our fear of the void. Embrace the void, let go of the desire to be freed from its presence, and the suffering ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salviador Posted January 24, 2006 Oh you mean the void that cannot be spoken ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anton Posted January 25, 2006 The void is hard to put into words as it tells you so much yet so very little. I find it as a place that has no beginning and no end, the sum of all that 'is'. If you fear it, it becomes fear. Mainly fears that we hold deep inside ourselves, the fear of not knowing and inability to except and embrace change. If you are able to let go and embrace the void it becomes a thing of beuty in a sense. An appreciation of the network of creation. Well thats the best analogy i can make of it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted January 26, 2006 I think that's a good way of putting it. I'll try to describe a specific DXM hallucination/delusion (if it's possible)... There is a road going around and up a mountain. Along this road there are caves, one for each person I know and some empty ones/ones that contain the void. Inside the caves are a lifeforce that is like the vitality bar on mortal kombat or other fighting games. It can travel along the road too, and communicate with other lifeforces, but if it goes too far into an empty cave (no lifeforce, just the void) it is eaten up and dissappears. If that happens, you are dead. I am one of those lifeforces and I am scared as I try to navigate communication with other lifeforces so as to not feel lonely, without going into the wrong cave and dying. Maybe it's a good analogy for the way life really is. I know this is all totally delusional, but some people who have been to the fourth plateau might understand it. "Monsters from the id." - Forbidden Planet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anton Posted January 27, 2006 I think that really delves into the human psyche ballzac. Saying that death could be right around the next corner but we cant let it inhib our lives. To reap the rewards of life we must always be aware of the failures which might come. It helps create balance, ying and yang if you will. Well thats what your report there says to me at the moment Anton Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted January 27, 2006 death - i wish i could believe it was the end - but i get the feeling this is only a screen test for the real after... I used to be agnostic - but a full on ghost experienced changed that completely. I am certain there is after - I had a very confronting experience with something i would equate to the concept of a void - it wasnt like the sort of wild maelstrom of an acid type experience, but the dark nothingness of a huge mushroom experience. It wasnt all that unpleasant since the other aspects of that night werent particularly nice - wasnt too bad but not what i had envisioned i guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted February 6, 2006 that wouldnt be the 2CT7 experience you had and griped so strongly about would it, bluemeanie? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strangebrew Posted February 7, 2006 (edited) Maybe you need to heed Hughey Lewis's sage advice Ballzac. ^_^ EDIT : Whoops, that should be Huey! I had a very confronting experience with something i would equate to the concept of a void - it wasnt like the sort of wild maelstrom of an acid type experience, but the dark nothingness of a huge mushroom experience. Mmm, I usually find it easy to connect to a timeless voidy thing on those especially just staring into the depths of the cosmos, alone on a dark & starry night. For me it is always accompanied by a spacey, faint sound that slowly wavers & is highish pitched, along with a bit of psychedelic critter chatter. I find it very siren-like & enticing but then again I am pretty schizoid. Edited February 8, 2006 by strangebrew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunboy Posted February 12, 2006 Maybe you need to heed Hughey Lewis's sage advice Ballzac. ^_^ EDIT : Whoops, that should be Huey! Mmm, I usually find it easy to connect to a timeless voidy thing on those especially just staring into the depths of the cosmos, alone on a dark & starry night. For me it is always accompanied by a spacey, faint sound that slowly wavers & is highish pitched, along with a bit of psychedelic critter chatter. I find it very siren-like & enticing but then again I am pretty schizoid. you freak me out with your post strangebrew! This "spacey, faint sound that slowly wavers & is highish pitched" describes an experience I had with San Pedro in the mountains EXACTLY.....that sound, I just could'nt describe. you seem to have managed to. I was laying on some rocks with water flowing over them ( down from the mountains) and the sun was bearing down on me......that sound....I was quite literally staring into the depths of the cosmos (except at day) and I'd been talking about death and I have to accept that its going to happen. - I was talking to my friend, not myself. Eventually we trailled off and all I remember was that sound and an intense sense of timelessness - perhaps as though I actually were dead. The sun was still there, but no events were unfolding.........anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strangebrew Posted February 13, 2006 you freak me out with your post strangebrew! This "spacey, faint sound that slowly wavers & is highish pitched" describes an experience I had with San Pedro in the mountains EXACTLY.....that sound, I just could'nt describe. you seem to have managed to. That's good, I'm not the only mad one then! It took me a couple of edits to come up with that but it's about the best I can do. I'd be surprised if it's something that's only peculiar to me, it just doesn't seem like an idiosyncratic thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted February 13, 2006 I don't know if this has anything to do with what you two are talking about, but on the most intense lsd experience of my life (which, might I add, was in most ways quite unpleasant), I was trying to get auditory peace, but there seemed to be sound everywhere. I waited for all the cars to pass, and for the wind to stop, and beneath everything was a sound akin to what you guys are talking about - the sound of nothing. Because of the amoung of lsd I had had, and also because for the first time I mixed it with marijuana, I was being nagged by the hallucinations, and for the first time in my life, I wished I could take a breather. It was frustrating not to be able to get beneath the sound of nothing, and hear true silence. I think this probably isn't what you're talking about, because this didn't seem that profound in meaning. I guess I was just tripping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strangebrew Posted February 13, 2006 It might be the same thing. I mentioned it once to someone and they seemed to think that they had heard the same thing and found it annoying too. I'm not saying it's profound, it's just a sound, but it intrigues me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WitchDoctor Posted March 6, 2006 Only a couple of weeks ago now, i was walking home (or towards where i thought that place was) on a very large dose of psilocybe mexicana. I had been walking for over two hours and i had forgotten how to talk, or if i was talking i wasnt sure if i was just thinking the words or if i was saying them and if i was saying them how far they travelled. About a kilometre from my house the thoughts i were having built up into an intense climax and i was surrounded by a bright white light, to which i believe to be the void. This was not frightening at all but the purity of it seemed to be a reflection of the grandeur of the realisations i had made. In no way did i avoid it, as i believe it came from myself and one should not avoid any part of themself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
