Hello and some id questions

[Neonaut]

Hi, I am new to these forums but some of you might know me from else, just figured I'd ask for some answers from you all.

[eeroborroc]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by eeroborroc

[incognito]

id call the first pic a trichocereus pachanoi,

and the second one a bridgesii?maybee?

[Neonaut]

id call the first pic a trichocereus pachanoi,

and the second one a bridgesii?maybee?

Thanx but i beleive them to be neither, and I do not think them to by hybrids either.

[gusto]

Welcome aboard Neo, I think you'll find a lot of bright and knowledgeable people around here. Hope you choose to stay a while.

And would someone get this man an ID. If persistence is a virtue, he's likely a saint.

[mr b.caapi]

both peruvianus i reckon.

[zee_werp]

The first one looks peruvianoid to me...

The 2nd one the sturdiness of the spines and largeness of areoles reminds me of the terscheckii / taquibalensis type plants, the length of the spines has flavours of chilensis to me.

But these are just stabs in the dark, by no means a systematical deduction of species...You'll probably need to wait for some input from a guru like MS or Trout ;)

[Neonaut]

Welcome aboard Neo, I think you'll find a lot of bright and knowledgeable people around here. Hope you choose to stay a while.

And would someone get this man an ID. If persistence is a virtue, he's likely a saint.

Thanks Gusto check your pms at the other forum. Regarding the lumberjackus

I know I am pestering the issue, but someone knows the answer, I am thinking the first to be a peruvianus/pachnoi and the second a chiloensis or ?

[zee_werp]

The 2nd isn't pure chiloensis, it has too few ribs. And I san see some slight spine curvature near the top which as I said reminds me of the terscheckii / taquimbalensis type plants...to take a complete surface-appearance based stab in the dark I'd think it could be a chiloensis x taquimbalensis or terscheckii cross. Could even be some peruvianus or any other number of genetics in there too though.

Both plants are likely a hybrid, and no, its not certain that 'someone knows' what they are...we can all speculate, but I doubt that you'll get a cast-in-stone ID on either of them...although its more likely for the 1st than the 2nd which I could believe if someone thought it was pachanoid / peruvianoid cross.

[BlackDragon]

Nice Photos.

The second looks remarkably like some seed grown kk427 t.peruvianus tarma(ill check my seed packet tonite). Now known as t.tarmaensis I think.

I have at least 30 of these grown from seed and they look very similar, Huge white/grey spikes.

Thats my 2cent...

[AndyAmine.]

The first one looks like a T.Cuzcoensis to me with the one big yellow spine per areol in the new growth that turns darker with age.

However Im renowned for bad cactus ID's so take it with a pinch of salt, LOL

[faslimy]

they both look like kk242/cuzcoensis or whatever to me. the areoles on backebergs tarmaensis look much larger.

[zee_werp]

Yeah the 1st one definitley might be KK242...or some kind of close relative (Isn't KK242 only one specific plant / strain? The label seems to get thrown around quite a bit - maybe its just cause it is a real common trich)

The 2nd one would have to be a damn chunky KK242. I reckon its a hybrid of some description. Although its pale colour and the fact that its not showing any new growth makes it a bit harder to see what it 'really' looks like.

[Neonaut]

Here is the top views of each one.

This is a top view of my kk242

[Rev]

KK242 the top one - the peruvianus that isnt

you can see the habit emerging

thats teh way my seedlings have gone

they grow into the form which is didtinctive and quite uniform amongs seedlings

the second i dont know but i swear i read something about a KK242 like plant with the downward pointing spinage variation

cant recall what it is tho

[Neonaut]

Thanks for the help, so from the answers i guess all three are kk242's

[Gunter]

Does that even help?

What is a KK242?

They all look unique in their own way to me.

[Neonaut]

Naw it doesnt help i was being sarcastic.

[Torsten]

would you say #2 is similar to this thing?

[Evil Genius]

I´d say that´s another KK 242. They all look kind of similar to me. Apart from the one on Pic 1. I was surpised that this one actually is a KK242.

[zee_werp]

OK so I'm going to throw this out there just based on my observations as an amatuer cactophile browsing these and other cactus forums.

Personally I believe that the KK242 name gets dished out to a bit too wide of a range of cacti.

Sure, there are always going to be differences in a cacti's appearance based on its growing conditions, even from the same clone.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am), but I thought that KK242 refers to one specific cactus collection made my Knize. Although I also understand that Knize is notoriously renound for his bad ID of trichs and his mislabeling of seeds etc. Perhaps this is the sole reason for the confusion surrounding KK242.

But basically, if KK242 is a code made to represent a single clone, or stable strain, of Trichocereus then I do not believe that all (or even most) of the cacti people ID as KK242 are infact KK242. While I can see similarities between all of the cacti pics in this post, I don't think that they are all the same single strain.

Neonaut's 'confirmed' KK242 that he posted a pic of looks a lot like T. cuzcoensis, as people have been suggesting about KK242. The other two cacti he posted pics of don't look so much like cuzco to me. Also, a lot of the features that people associate with KK242 (e.g. swollen spine base) are also present on other trichocereus species.

Perhaps others can shed some more light on this...although I can see that KK242 has already caused headaches in many Trich IDers.

[Gunter]

KK242 is the name Knize applies to any plant/seed collected in a certain elevation range near Matucana Peru.

Knize has said that there are about 9 different plants that he has used the name with and that about 1/2 of them have short spines.

[strangebrew]

Hey Neonaut why don't you just taste test all 3?

If one or any of them has some flavour, be happy and do a little jig,

because it's more than likely it's not KK242/peru or cuzcoensis.

[zee_werp]

KK242 is the name Knize applies to any plant/seed collected in a certain elevation range near Matucana Peru.

Knize has said that there are about 9 different plants that he has used the name with and that about 1/2 of them have short spines.

That is pretty ridiculous!!! Who's to say that those aren't 9 different species alltogether? This Knize guy seems like a bit of a shambles. Oh wait I mean a real big bit of a shambles.

So now what I want to know is, to those who use the term KK242, do you use it to refer to all 9 of these types, or just a single one that you consider to be the true KK242? And also when you use the term KK242 are you essentially meaning that you think that the plant originated from a specific elevation near Matacuna?

[Gunter]

Honestly I can only think of two types of phenotypes I have seen for KK242 aside from pictures at Trouts site. One tends to have two central spines that are gold/yellow and fading to white and 7-9 radials, fairly big areoles spaced 3-4cm apart and a wavy profile at the tip. The other is nearly pachanoid with a central spine that can grow 2cm+ and is said to be active while the other form I mentioned may not be.

So there is the form consistent with KK242 seed, rather like the first one I described, which is commonly seen, and looks very much akin to some photographs of T cuzcoensis I have seen, and unlike some others of pictures of T cuzcoensis forms said to be active. However some intermediates and hybrids may look quite like it and be something else entirely.

Some Knize numbers can be trusted a bit more to be a single species, such as KK919, thus far I have only heard of that producing bridgesioid plants. It is interesting to note that Trout's "San Pedro" has photos of bridgesioids that were produced in batches of KK242 seed with forms much more consistent with what I believe to be the first form I mentioned. It is whispered in dark places Knize may just sweep spilled seeds off of his floor and throw them in batches of others, but why not give him the benefit of the doubt and blame pixies or Incan ghosts hell bent on flustering Trichophiles?