Cubensis in WA?

[Manisobsolete]

Just wondering if any fellow westerners have heard of or seen any cubensis growing about the place in WA, theres an awful lot of cow pastures around...

[occidentalis]

Apparently it has been known to happen round Broome way .

Not down here though. They require warmth, rain, and humidity at the same time. In summer it's too dry and in winter it's too cold!

[Manisobsolete]

Cool thanks creach, there goes my idea of having a cow paddock chock full of goodness just an hours drive away. have to keep working on something

[nabraxas]

i get confused w/genus.

lots ov folks not connected to the net seem to think the "gold tops" are all cubensis.

on that basis, yes i've seen them growing in forrestry commission areas around albany--i think it was, way south ov perth anyway.

[occidentalis]

The whole 'gold tops' thing just creates confusion... people tell me they found/were given/bought some mushrooms, and I ask them what type - "er... gold tops?"

"gold tops like cubensis or like subaeruginosa?"

"er.... gold tops?"

 

quote:

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lots ov folks not connected to the net seem to think the "gold tops" are all cubensis

Really? I've found that people not on the net are more likely to just call everything gold tops. I don't think there's much doubt that the common species through the south west is subaeruginosa.

I think a while ago on here it was discussed and agreed upon that cubes=gold tops and subs=copper tops or just 'subs'.

[ 02. April 2005, 10:29: Message edited by: creach ]

[SunChaser]

I thought that cubs only grew in subtropical areas so in theory they should be capable of growing up the top of WA but then why do they grow in Tasmania this makes no sense to me. Anyway I’ve never done Australian cubs but they say there pretty weak and I wouldn’t be prepared to eat even 3 large ones that have came directly out of cow shit, I used to get pissed that these mushrooms didn’t grow locally but after learning about them I don’t think I’m missing out on much does any one from Brisbane or Tasmania Have any first hand information on them like are they really that weak and do they really grow all year round after rain and even better do the QSD and the Tassie variety differ in potency :confused:

[occidentalis]

They don't grow in Tasmania. There is a tasmanian strain, but it is called that for some other reason - I can't remember the history.

[nabraxas]

Really? I've found that people not on the net are more likely to just call everything gold tops---agreed to that, just the few folks i met who've put a name to them other than gold tops, use cubensis---i'd never even heard the term "subauringosa"(sp?) 'til i looked on the net.

[Dirty Old Man]

jabez:

.....I don’t think I’m missing out on much does any one from Brisbane or Tasmania Have any first hand information on them like are they really that weak and do they really grow all year round after rain and even better do the QSD and the Tassie variety differ in potency     :confused:  

Cubes may not be anywhere near as strong cyanescens or other mushrooms they are still plenty strong.

A friend of a friend ingested about 90 grams of fresh cubes on his first experience and believe me he had a wild ride.

I think that 40-50 grams of fresh cubes is a nice interesting level.

[SunChaser]

 

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They don't grow in Tasmania

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Magic Mushrooms of Australia & New Zealand, by John W. Allen said they do I'm just going by that :confused:

[ 04. April 2005, 09:59: Message edited by: jabez ]

[occidentalis]

Hmmm I could be wrong but

1. climatic conditions are obviously about as far off cubensis territory as you can get

2. I have a strong memory of someone refuting the story that they do grow in Tas - can we get a comment from bm or rev?

nabraxas:

I'd also never heard of subs till I looked on the net, most people haven't - and in my part of the world subs are the only things that grow wild so differentiating between species is kinda needless - but they're not even gold!

[smogs]

i thought there was a tasmania strain of cube?

[mescalito]

Tasmanians are Tassie cubes as far as spore sales on o/s websites go.

As for the cube v sub thing goes the potency has been widely reported and concurred with.

i.e. subs stronger than cubes BUT there can be confusion with ID's too as Bluemeanie has pointed out in past posts.

[SunChaser]

I've never weighed fresh mushrooms before but 90 grams seems alot to me I don't think you'd need anywhere near that in Subs. And considering you get cubs from cow manure that hasn't been sterilized I stand by what I said I don't think I'm missing out on much

[occidentalis]

90g is a huge amount!

Most gnomes would consume around 20-40g fresh cubes. Sometimes less than 20g is quite enough for nice fresh material. Most gnomes wouldn't go higher than 50g.

A friend related this story to me: when he was travelling in nsw last year, he awoke one beautiful rainy morning to find the mushrooms that he had collected the day before sitting next to his head in his tent. Feeling adventurous (and hungry), he took a bite of one of the meaty caps. 1/2 an hour later he had definite effects.

Cube strengths are quite variable (esp wild ones) but they aren't as weak as you seem to think.

[strangebrew]

JABEZ

quote:

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Magic Mushrooms of Australia & New Zealand, by John W. Allen said they do I'm just going by that

 

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I wouldn't take everything in that as gospel.

But thumbs up for the effort.

[ 05. April 2005, 19:34: Message edited by: strangebrew ]

[Adrian]

Firstly, I advocate the use of the terms: "Gold Caps" & "Copper Tops" referring to the two species, P.cubensis (former) & P.subaeruginosa (for the later).

Although both can't always be described as golden during fruiting stages, generally both will appear golden when dried.

Off the top of my head (please don't quote me here, as I don't have the document) I believe a study/ analysis of freeze-dried Psilocybe subaeruginosa specimens by Perkal (collected at roughly 16 different locations) revealed a maximum psilocybin (probably + psilocin) percentage of 1.93% & 0.17% Psilocin, keep in mind that the minimum Psilocybin percentage was 0.06%, the average (from my calculations of Perkal's data) Psilocybin percentage from 8 carpophore samples tested is 0.7925%.

Apparently, the distribution of Psilocybin & Psilocin in 8 sample mushrooms revealed a ratio of

approximately 2:1 between caps & stems.

Anyhow it is fairly safe to say that P.subaeruginosa is regarded as being strong to v/ strong (medium - v/high psilocybin : low psilocin : no baeocystin) .

(was baeocystin & nor-baeocystin screened in this study??)

So if someone was instructed to consume the 90g grams of P.subs thinking this is a normal dose of "Goldies" and they copped the 1.93% minority, then that would equate to 173.7mg! "Oops, triple zero emergency, please send out the 'cat team' , we have a man down..." (from memory: dry equals ~ 10% of wet weight) & should they be the average of 0.74% then were in trouble cause that's 66.6mg "...triple zero emergency, we have a man down, he just morphed into 'The Beast'..." (Typical doses are 4 to 10 milligrams)

On the other hand there is a debate on qualitative difference, regardless of potency (i.e. different ratios of the indole alkaloids).

[ 12. April 2005, 02:03: Message edited by: Adrian ]

[SunChaser]

If Psilocybe subaeruginosa has a Psilocybin content of up to 1.93% then it would have to stand up to the most potent mushrooms woulden't it.

[mescalito]

as I said reliable sources tell me this is most certainly the case.The trouble is that one strain varies to the next but I would think that based on my sources the weaker subs are noticebly stronger than strong cubes.

There also have been reports of differences in nature of the exp between nsw and vic subs.

[Adrian]

I made a few slight corrections to the above text, but the 1.93% is no typo!

I have heard from a few (reliable) sources that the S.A subs are noticeably less potent than those from Vic.

It'd be interesting to compare cultivated specimens/ varieties from different locations around OZ & N.Z, (controlled study, obviously somewhere where legal)

[Rock n Liam]

While 66 mg is a huge dose, it would be nothing the psysical body of a regularly healthy person couldn't take, i believe LD50 for psilocybin is 19 grams of pure chemical, that is from memory, could be wrong.

As i said, psyically the body could take it, but the poor unsuspecting mans mind would be in for a great psychedelic arse kicking.

[Adrian]

Rock n Liam, I agree completely.

It would be virtually impossible to consume enough shrooms reach LD50.

What I meant by 'cat team' is a mobile psychiatric unit that deals with psychiatric emergencies.

[The Dude]

How do vic and nsw subs compare to Sa subs? just curious? A friend of a gnome said that 5 mushrooms (large by melb standards - very tall and skinny) was plenty for a 1st experience. Another friend said that the first flushes were most potent and a few pins were enough.

hmm another question, is it OK to pick pins? or should one wait to they fully mature. I've heard that as they mature they are less potent (/weight). Does the mushroom keep producing the goods all the way through it's growth? Or is there a more or less stable amount of 'goods' during it's life?

[DuG]

I guy I met in the pub once told me that the subs here, Tassie, are potent and that 5 medium sized shrooms is enough for a good time. As for cubes down here well I haven't seen any and this guys hadn't either

[Adrian]

In regards to picking pins, please read http://www.earthpod.org/sustain.html (although in serious need of revision) as you may find it useful.

There is a problem with gauging doses by whole mushrooms and that is that there can be a huge variation in potency between individuals, even from the same substrate/ habitat.

The study I have been referring to states that there 'was' no way to determine how potent an individual mushroom is (by macroscopic analysis/ observation: i.e. size, colour, shape, age etc.) other than with chromatographic (et al.) analytical techniques {discounting ingestion}.

A more ideal approach towards safe ingestion would be to make a uniform blend of dried ground/ crushed material and use weight (or perhaps if consistently fine; volume) as the measure. By this method the difference in potency between individual specimens is balance evenly throughout the mixed material.

Be careful!

I’ve “heard of” P.subaeruginosa specimens that have had a dry weight of 2.25g (=16.65mg @ Av. 0.74% or 43.43mg @ Max. 1.93%)and this specimen looks as if it weighed 1.65g* (=12.21mg @ Av. 0.74% or 31.85mg @ Max. 1.93%)

*just a guess, as it would be very difficult to weigh without pulling it

Ooops, I'm babbling on again

P.S excuse my calculations, I wasn't even around to fail maths. I was a truly, fluent truant

P.P.S & yes me did failed engrish also :D