psilocin

[strangebrew]

Hello all,

It's that time of year again - HURRAY!! :D , and the dreams have started and I've just been wondering a bit about psilocin.

Is the amount of bluing directly related to how much psilocin is contained in a mushroom?

Is all the psilocin eventually oxidized?

Is psilocin related to visuals?

A friend of mine has noticed that dried shrooms aren't as visual as fresh. He also remembers a strange area where the subs didn't turn blue and the trip these gave weren't very visual either.

Cheers.

[mesq]

Didn't turn blue eh Im glad you thought it was cool to eat them If they don't bruise blue I wouldn't eat them. (I wouldn't anyway cos thats wrong)

[strangebrew]

My friends' been picking quite a few years. He knows what a sub looks like.

They were quite nice looking large bulletheads, very yellow tops with thick white stems. Gave a mental journey but no visuals. Just thought there might be a corelation. But you're right he wouldn't do it again.

[ 05. April 2004, 19:02: Message edited by: strangebrew ]

[Guest electro]

I take it you are in a country where such activities are legal ... if so ....

Is the amount of bluing directly related to how much psilocin is contained in a mushroom?

-> no idea

If all the psilocin eventually oxidized?

-> if not treated correctly (minimise contact with heat and oxygen), yes

Is psilocin related to visuals?

-> yes, or at least to the known "effects". Theory (of some?) is that Psilocybin is broken into psilocin in the body and that psilocin is actually responsible for the effects. Thous accompanying chemicals will make a large difference (along with the actual breaking down of the psilocybin).

To find out exactly, (ive read in one report @ Rhodium) convert the psilocybin to psilocin by heating your DRY mushroom powder to 50c (70c max) in a solution of glacial acetic acid ... (will vinegar work here ???) for 1 hr.Filter the gunk out of it & save the liquid.

Evaporate liquid to dryness in mild conditions. Redissolve residue left in hot denatured ethanol (NOT METHANOL), Reduce volume of liquid to about half of it's original amount. Let cool ... psilocin crystals will form. Filter the crystals out of the solution, dry & store in an air tight jar out of the light in the fridge (with as little air in the container as possible).

Let the rest of the liquid evaporate to be left with a goo that contains whatever the last part of the extraction missed.

A friend of mine has noticed that dried shrooms aren't as visual as fresh.

-> probably because alot of people destroy their psilocin in the drying process ... in general, ehat will fuck it.

[strangebrew]

Ahh, to be a chemist. :confused:

I take it 3 days air drying, air-tight container with silica and darkness can be bettered in your opinion. Freezing hasn't made any difference in my friends opinion, actually not as good in terms of time. Dehydrater is being considered. Warm oven :mad: , maybe should think about turning it off next time!

Heat should be avoided you say. I guess that discounts the oven. Dehydrater?

So boiling fresh is out too? Whatever next? No milk in your tea?

If it(visuals) is just a matter of more psilocin, I would have thought just more dried shrooms would be the answer (if all psilocybin gets converted anyway). Still never equalled fresh.

[ 05. April 2004, 20:39: Message edited by: strangebrew ]

[Guest electro]

firstly i am not a chemist, i just search until i find tidbits about what i want to know, then share them & provoke peeps into responding ... however i dont come up with stuff myself :/

the dryer sounds good .... only things to better that would be erm, i would guess ... less air (smaller container/more drying agent)...

Do it in a sealed container in the fridge. possible a different drying agent (how good is silica?)

ALso an inert atmosphere would be cool... but hey who has access to inert gasses that they can waste on filling their drying boxes with... lols

anyone have any suggestions on gasses that could be used here that are readily available otc ???

as for larger amounts not helping .....->

other chems undoubtedly play a large role in variation of the experience ... possibly some of these degrade also through the drying process ?

Thelema was posting about this a while back i believe.(or at least about trying to figuer out what other chemicals play a significant role in these experiences)

has there been any studies on the effects of some of the ¨other¨ chemicals present ? Thel did you end up getting 4-ho-tryptophan synthed ? wat was the result of that experiment ?

[ 05. April 2004, 21:52: Message edited by: electro ]

[strangebrew]

I probably didn't word that correctly.

Normally just air dry in the open, then get hold of silica gel from the chemist. It comes in a fairly large container 500g for $30.00, haven't found smaller. Cut open a tea-bag, empty it, and fill with silica and staple shut. Putting this on top of the jar just makes sure any moisture remaining gets sucked up. Have a look occassionally ,just to see if it's changed colour. If it has replace it.

You've got me thinking though. If you had enough of it, you could possibly dry shrooms with it. But you'd need a LOT.

[nabraxas]

ok- brew, i don't think the method ov drying or storing that you are using can be bettered to any great extent that would noticibly affect potentcy.

if you want to go w/chemical drying try converting one ov those "closet hippo" things they sell in coles to remove moisture from damp cupboards---but i don't think it's worth it.

i freeze my dried shrooms too, but over 6 months the potentcy does decrease, i think it will however you store them.

you know the answer

I would have thought just more dried shrooms would be the answer

& if that means too much shroom to eat, follow electro's advice & convert to crystals.

electro-- i see you've added an acidic wash to the plain soak & freeze in meths--could you say why it's needed?

also i've heard that temps over 70 degs start to break down the goodies--so does that mean "tea" is not a good idea, fresh or dry?

[ 06. April 2004, 08:37: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[strangebrew]

It may have been because of other factors but I've found just leaving in a dark cupboard or drawer has better long term results when compared to freezing.

If the container is 100% air-tight the results have been good for years.

[ 06. April 2004, 12:29: Message edited by: strangebrew ]

[Guest electro]

re silica gel .. i use 2 kg's to dry shitake in a small esky (with a raised platform made from fly mesh to keep the shitake from touching the methyl silicate bed beneath).

Epsom salts could work too (just bake them for an hour or two then elt them cool first).

re nabraxas:

the acidic wash is not there as a wash, it is there to convert chemicals ...

"magic" Mushies contain psilocin and psilocybin (and a host of other chems).

The denatured ethanol technique does not extract psilocybin, only psilocin... to avoid waste, convert all the psilocybin t5o psilocin first..

psilocybin, supposedly when heated in acetic acid (to between 60c and 70c) will according to hive bee's be dephosphorylated (spelling) ./... ie it's phosphor group will eb ripped off, turning if from psilocybin into psilocin.

Re teas being a bad idea ... *shrug* no idea ... the boil is possibly too short for any major degree of decomposition to occur... but some would happen...

[strangebrew]

How long does it take to dry the shittake?

Ever bothered with M&M's?

[spiders]

The bluing reaction is the reaction of present enzymes in the mushroom that are possibly oxidising psilocin - as this has been measurably confirmed to oxidise at the same time as the enzyme reaction.

As Electro says - psilocybin is converted to active psilocin in the body, but a poorly dried mushroom will lose some of its inherant psilocin - some species more than others, which will lower potency. Baeocystin is a related alkaloid that is assumed to be also psychoactive - and its affects may mirror or be slightly different from psilocin - some species contain more of this than others - very little is found in cubensis - but high levels are found in grass and wood species - like subaeruginosa.

[The Dude]

bluemeanie, i just did a little search for Baeocystin on Erowid and found http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mus...hemistry1.shtml which says "Baeocystin and norbaeocystin is a mild respitory inhibitor". Supposedly a 7 year old died from Baeocystin overdose. Would be good to get some real information on this chemical tho.

Anyone eating subs maybe realise any sort of breathing trouble?

[ 10. April 2004, 11:18: Message edited by: El Duderino ]

[The Dude]

And another bit of info on this page http://www.beyond-the-illusion.com/files/M...html#baeocystis

"Potent" PSILOCYBE BAEOCYSTIS:

Audubon Plate 86 p.719

Found in autumn and winter, solitary, grouped, or clustered on earth, lawns, mulch, and decomposing forest wood near scattered trees especially conifers - in western Oregon and Washington. It does well on Agar media at 77 degrees F. This is a potent species containing Psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin, and nor-baeocystin. Perhaps it is because of the latter two alkaloids that it is the most visually hallucinogenic of the psilocybin mushrooms. There is a report that in 1960 a six-year old boy died after eating a large number of these mushrooms. There has never been any other indication that these alkaloids are dangerous. Until there is further clarification of this question, we advise that anyone using this species proceed with caution by starting with small doses and progressing gradually to larger ones. This is especially important when using the extracted crude alkaloids which may contain large concentrations of the baeocystin alkaloids.

[strangebrew]

Just as a little aside,

Is there any noticable difference in the high btw cubs and subs? Some of you have knowledgeable gnomes.

[theobromos]

The child who died may have been the one who had "eaten some mushrooms from the yard" and some Psilocybes were found in the yard. I don't think exact ID of the LBMs was made from the stomach comtents.

There are, of course, many deadly LBMs.

[spiders]

Yeah - that information is quite erronous. Gartz actually contacted the doctor who identified the mushroom that this child suposedly ate and he agreed that there were mushrooms that resembled Psilocybe cyanescens in the garden, and that he had chosen Psilocybe baeocystis after spending five minutes idenitifying the mushrooms from the garden picture.

More to the point was the fact that five species were found in the garden including deadly galerina, and that this doctor openly agreed when Gartz suggested it as more likely the probably cause of her poisoning - and admitted that he was pressured into making a cursory identification of one the mushrooms even though he had almost no experience in mushroom identification.

Gartz and Stivje in seperate studfies managed to isolate and extract baeocystin and the bioassasy conducted by John Allen and others seemed to be identical to normal psilocin itoxication.

That being said, mushrooms with high baeocystin are often reputed as being more visual mushrooms - that being semilanceata, baeocystis, azurescens and possibly subaeruginosa.

There is a definate difference between the vibes of subaerugionosa and cubensis - infact its almost laughable during the experience how different they are. azurescens was much more like a strong cubie experience with body aches, whereas cyanescens and subaeruginosa are reasonably similar.

[Rev]

Ill second that - cubes and subs - not at all the same despite having the same major actives

[strangebrew]

Can you give a bit more detail? Preferences?

[gerbil]

Everyone will have a preferred one, but you have to find out what best suits you , not what best suits other people.

Everything is unique in it's own special way, so theres really only one way to find out which works bests with your mind and body...of course you have to go overseas to a place where such things are legal.

Have never had the pleasure of cubensis, but i must say subaeruginosa is very special to me, discovering things about mind and body that are so straight forward, and have been there for such a long time, but have never been noticed with such accuracy before. It's like opening a monsterous library of knowledge inside your mind.

[ 11. April 2004, 12:59: Message edited by: gerbil ]

[The Dude]

hey theobromos, whats an LBM? -haha sorry im dumb and dont know.

[visualfx]

Little Brown Mushroom

[ 13. April 2004, 14:22: Message edited by: visualfx ]

[Rev]

A generic term for a whole complex of little things too hard to tell apart, with no sex appeal in mycology , and of no known use.

Avoided at all costs...

HOwever...If you find a blueing LBM you may have found the blueing Inocybe that i have been informed of in our native forests. definietly worth investigation

[spiders]

never heard that one, but i too would be keenly interested!