Skulking Lurker Posted March 20, 2003 Years ago whilst collecting 'gold tops' I decided to dig up some turf that was prolific with shrooms. I kept this turf in the backyard for a few years, and every winter it produced a few. I haven't bothered trying again since shifting house. What do I need to get started growing if I bought a cubensis print ? Do different species require different techniques ? Thanks, SL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skulking Lurker Posted March 20, 2003 Could it be worth a try, to prepare a bed of compost and cow manure, in a cool place in the garden, and try to get a mycelia started in a brown rice cake and distribute pieces in the bed? I know there are different methods that can be employed, but what methods do you guys find to be your preferred ones ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SicKo Posted March 20, 2003 no compost but wood chips instead with cow manure, u would use subs. well thats what i would do & its getting close 2 get spore prints 2. :D [ 20. March 2003, 15:40: Message edited by: SicKo ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skulking Lurker Posted March 20, 2003 Wood chips = pine bark chips? = jarrah chips? What sort would you recommend? And should I not bother, and just do it indoors, like most people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted March 20, 2003 quote: What do I need to get started growing if I bought a cubensis print ? Do different species require different techniques ? sounds like yer asking about outdoor cubensis patch, rather than a woodlover patch. yes- different species require different techniques, different substrates. Cubensis - grows off cow/horseshit and straw. fruits in warm temps. Subaeruginosa - grows off woodchips, leaf litter. fruits in cold temps. me buddy did this a couple of summers back- spawn some cowshit with BRF jars, chuck in a hole in the garden, apply casing layer, cover with big clear bucket, lift to aerate every couple days. should pop up if its warm enough (>20 degC). [ 20. March 2003, 16:36: Message edited by: ferret ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted March 21, 2003 Try these links... www.shroomery.org www.mycotopia.net www.mushmush.nl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted March 22, 2003 Gold Tops / Cubensis = the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted March 22, 2003 i was always under the impression that gold tops are p. subs. Or is it that copper tops are just that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted March 22, 2003 Yeah that's a victorian thing. When I went to tasmania they called every mushroom 'bluemeanie' and in New Zealand they did the same. Its more of a issue where the American concept of 'bluemeanie' and 'goldtop' and 'flying saucer' is being forced here. I have adopted it because it makes it easier to understand what im talking about. Since Subaeruginosa generally isnt gold topped until it is picked and dried and the cap has fully hydropanised (is that a word?). Copper tops , subs would probably be more correct, since Australian cubensis tends to exhibit an early and proudly golden cap. Flying Saucer is one that my friends have been using to describe the umbonated varieties of Subaeruginosa, but since the wavy-caps are nearly the same, its not really correct either. Can we agree on Cubensis being Gold Tops, Panaeolus Cyanescens being Blue Meanies and Subs being copper tops that might work, but then we get the NSW varieties of Subaeruginosa which are quite different and even have a reddish to gold cap. Fuck ive smoke too much... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skulking Lurker Posted March 22, 2003 Balingup is the place where I used to collect. I'd assume they were Subaeruginosa. Everyone termed them goldtops, but I'm fully prepared to reterm them coppertops if that is what they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted March 22, 2003 Can we just please proliferate the usage of Scientific names instead?? I am sick of this Gold Top, Copper Top, Blue Meanie, BS!!! If everyone used scientific names and tried there best to ID the shrooms we wouldn't have the kinds of confusion we get.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skulking Lurker Posted March 22, 2003 OK.................. I can easily understand the fact that precise identification of species, in comparison to locality driven namesake, would be most desirable in almost all dialogue pertaining to the particular subject at hand, but at least in this instance, the species is still in question; as far as I'm concerned. A couple of examples, for the benefit of the cause, are that they look like the first picture given, until after a few days of aging, whilst still growing, they start to get wavy on the edges, like the second piccie, as maturity furthers. In younger days, I used to eat up to 15-20 at a time to get really on the level, but now being older and more able to gain what I deem more of an appropriate appreciation of the effect provided by the consumption of such, I now behave somewhat less frivolously. Don't get me wrong, I'm only 34, and when I party,............... I party. Not scared. Just tryin' to tone down a little. [ 22. March 2003, 02:02: Message edited by: Skulking Lurker ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skulking Lurker Posted March 22, 2003 . . How do I completely delete a post? . . [ 22. March 2003, 02:15: Message edited by: Skulking Lurker ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted March 22, 2003 They are undoubtedly Ps.Subaeruginosa. The victorian, South Australian and Western Australian Subaeruginosa all exhibit traits ranging from the classically umbonated Subaeruginosa of Cleland's pictures, to the uplifted wavy margins of Guzman's Australiana. Since it has been demonstrated that they are one and the same mushroom, your 'goldtops' are wavy Subaeruginosa. If in doubt, send us a gill fragment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted March 23, 2003 skulker you may have problems with outdoor cubies in perth they dont occur there naturally, the climate ot being hospitable the balingup sub variety of P sub is found as youd know in the vicinity of pine forests but i saw the greatest concentration on river banks on Eucalyptus wood ( E rudis) and not nearly so many on Pine I even saw subs growing directly off fallen trees with diameters of maybe 80cm that had fallen across streams if one were to transplant successfully into woodchip mulched beds i would expect them to be thick and comprised of Pine chips (pref P radiata) and twigs, eucalyptus twigs (no not jarrah- maybe karri would be better or even blue gums if you cant get E rudis which is the flooded gum) Town water would be detrimental at the same time youd want to minimise the drying effect of perth summers so covering with hessuian and more mulch over summer with and occassional watering to tide them over natural rainfall will trigger regrowth in autumn. youll want to remove the covering by this time an alternative method which i believe may well work is to emulate the areas ive found to have the highest yields - riverbanks alluvial sandy soils with a large amunt of woody debris mixed in, usually over grown with grass mixing colonised chip with fresh chip in excavations into the lawn or beneath roll on lawn this moderates mositure loss and extremes of temperature, protects from insects and is quite invisible. youd want an area with a fairly natural rainfall pattern not a fully reticulated lawn as too much moisture will damage the mycelium, the sands in perth give fairly good drainage i sincerely think it will be the easiets and most effective way to naturalise these species in the perth area though i havent tested it myself a similar technique using innoculated logs is certainly the best way to grow most edible and medicinal mushrooms in perth a note: slaters are your mortal enemies as they feed heavily upon dormant mycelium. they are particularly prevealent in the coastal belt overlying the calcium rich sands Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted March 24, 2003 but slatters are so cute! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SicKo Posted March 24, 2003 how would one go about controling slatters? would snail pelets be bad 4 the mycelium? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted March 24, 2003 Rev you say the climate in Perth is not hopsitable for cubies - what about in a shady humid corner of the garden in the summer months? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mesq Posted March 25, 2003 SicKo: how would one go about controling slatters? would snail pelets be bad 4 the mycelium? Id say snail pellets in a shroom bed is probably a bad idea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted March 25, 2003 Cubies need humidity and warmth - you dont get both together in perth In dry weather cubes will emerge but the dry air hardens the outside, if it becomes moist again then the cubie continues to grow from the inside and starts to crack open like popcorn You might get lucky with cakes in a warm humid area like a leaf mulch pile in autumn but slaters will give you hell Psilocybe hispanica may be an acceptable substitute a a cool weather dunglover but not so much work has been done with that species Ive seen that eastern Sub strains also seem to love Conifer wood and needles - especially cedar type plants like cypress of Thuja (bookleaf pine) Snail pellets - at least some types are approved by the BFA for organic pest control so they cant be that bad. The best way for snails is to put then in glass jars on their sides, they last longer cos the weather doesnt get in , and when its full of dead snails its makes and easy way to dispose of them A friend tried a chicken tractor for slaters but found that after a few weeks they get sick of them Slaters are the biggest problem in dry ecosystems where they replace earthworms as the decomposers of humus and vegetable material,and at the first rains delicate seedlings Apparently in the process of desertificatio from arid shrubland to gibber, the Isopods are one of the last things to go Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SicKo Posted March 25, 2003 what about raising the beds off the ground? would garlic keep them away & would it harm the mycelium? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted April 1, 2003 I think ive had a bad problem because im on a limestone soil - slaters and snails in numbers id never dreamed possible - and cretainl never seen when i was on clay or sand inland old cakes buried in the compost heap do fruit in autumn - until the vermin get into them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted April 2, 2003 It will be interesting to see if there's any difference between your (old) place and mine - I have noticed the soil in your garden is a little oranger than mine. Are you on karrakata sand? Supposedly I am but it could perhaps be herdsman since I'm closer to the wetland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted April 3, 2003 I think ps.tasmaniana will be a good candidate for cultivation when i finally get a good culture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
