cubensis trip illness

[occidentalis]

My girlfriend Sarah and I have had three mushroom journeys. During the most recent two of these she has experienced a physical illness towards the end of the trip.

The first time we had mushrooms was with subaeruginosa. This problem was not encountered. The other two times have been with mild to moderate doses of cubies.

She has not really been able to describe exactly what happens to her, but from watching her both times, it appears she loses physical strength, becomes panicky and eventually blacks out.

The first time it happened was a cold night and we were camping, at a doof in the south west. Sarah is a wimp when it comes to cold and so dressed up in about ten layers (really!) and sat in front of the fire. After a while she said she was hot so we decided to go for a walk. She said she was having a headspin and needed to sit down. She sat on some rocks and I stood next to her. I was off with the mushrooms and soon forget about the reason I was standing there. The next time I looked down at her (which could have been anything up to 5 minutes later) she was unconscious. She came back pretty quickly, took off most of her layers and was perfectly OK after 15-20 minutes. The incident was put down to poor thermal regulation on her part and subsequent hyperthermia.

Last week we again went camping and again met with the fungus gods. This time, we were sitting on a log near the river when Sarah said she had to lie down, and headed up towards the camp. She got about five meters and called me over to help her. We sat down on the ground and waited about 10 minutes for it to pass. She remained mostly conscious the whole time, and was fine within 20 minutes.

There has not appeared to be any long term effect from this strange reaction to our mushroom friends. We have been unable to pinpoint any single factor such as diet, exercise, other drugs, or emotional condition that may be contributing to or creating the problem.

Our shroom experiences have been educational, inspirational, and very enjoyable, and we would hate it if Sarah had to stop having them. Although I don't necessarily share her desire at this point, Sarah definitely wants to go deeper into the world of the mushrooms, but obviously feels restricted by this problem.

Does anyone have any wisdom to share with us on this matter?

Has anyone had similar reactions to mushrooms or heard of this before, or have any idea what could be causing it?

Thanks

Chidakash & Sarah

[Torsten]

The most obvious problem appears to be bloodsugar levels. Shrooms use up a lot of energy, but at the same time confuse the body's signals that would normally tell you that you need sugar. Doing shrooms in the cold amplifies this problem drastically. In many people this drop in bloodsigar will cause psychological symptoms derived from the underlying physical issues.... ie, when your sugar levels drop then people start to do any or all of the following: shiver, cramp, become tense, aggressive, tired, dizzy etc. This often causes the trip to go bad on a psychological level. In your case you seem to be happy trippers and so the mental side is insignificant (especially if you find comfort in each other), and thus the physical side actually gets worse without any major warning signals.

Next time make sure to get some carbohydrates/sugars into you before and/or during the trip. Also, keep some dextrose (or honey) handy and dissolve it on tongue at first sign of symptoms. I have the feeling this will fix the problem

[occidentalis]

Yes, that would make sense.

It seems strange that I have not been affected, because I tend to have mild hypoglycaemia on some occasions.

Thankyou Torsten, we will give that a try next time.

[Torsten]

it affects girls and skinny guys much more than normal guys.

[spiders]

Id suggest that it sounds exactly like what you would expect from an effect blood-sugar levels. Mushrooms and cold nights dont mix as my blood circulation is poor on them, and my feet get cold and even go blue. Is quite an annoying distraction, so i stick to warm summer nights or rug-up.

[RonnySimulacrum]

The next two days after I have had mushrooms, I get headaches and fill like I have a heavy and stringy body- a bit like after that terrible white power some people use to get throw a hard days work on the building site.

Dose anyone have any suggestions on how to avid/minimise this affect?

[Torsten]

ronny, that is likely to be one of two causes. either electrolytes, which can be fixed by taking a small amount of celtic salt (half teaspoon). or it could be low serotonin which can be adjusted with salmon or 5HTP or tryptophan.

[RonnySimulacrum]

I am sore you have had this question a million times before but where is a good, and reliable source for there items?

[Darklight]

Celtic salt- health food store

5HTP- health food store ( may need to be ordered in Australia under the name Proxan from Innovative Therapies in QLD- dunno where they ship to ) or UTFSE and see what others have done to ensure supply

[Guest electro]

l-tryptophan is from the health food store or the chemist healt section aswell

[Gwydion]

A bit of chocolate almost always goes down well too. And it´s what the aztecs used as well.

[Torsten]

careful with th choccies if yo're not sure why someone is having a bad time. Chocolate is great for low bloodsugar as it provides both the sugar and the stimulation to absorb it. However, if the trip is going bad due to anxiety states, then the increase in adrenaline caused by chocolate can easily kick someone over the edge.

[spiders]

Strange. Ive never encountered those types of after effects - do you know if different varieties of mushrooms also have this effect? Psilocybin is converted l-tryptophan.

[Torsten]

Originally posted by bluemeanie:

Strange. Ive never encountered those types of after effects

Most people don't get them. If you normal sugar sensors still work then you would know soon enough that you have to do something. In some people this simply ins't the case and the effects just overrun them.

- do you know if different varieties of mushrooms also have this effect?

well, there is THAT mushroom I thought to be Pan cyan, but which now doesn't appear to be that or anything else you can think of

It caused a little bit of tummy cramping and tension in the muscles. Combined with cold this could (and was) pretty yucky. When we had it again we had more sugar and warmer clothes and we were pretty much fine.

Psilocybin is converted l-tryptophan.

who says?? Where does the extra carbon come from??

[spiders]

Stamets in his book and he is quoting Gartz.

[somnif]

There *was* (until a server deletion, I think

:-( ) a thread over at Ethnobotany-Australia

in which (in part) a couple of Type I

diabetics discussed a fairly dramatic

lowering of sugar levels with mushroom

consumption.

Take it from me, at least in Type I diabetics,

this is a real effect.

On the other hand, from what I have seen, the

so called munchies from MJ don't seem to be

caused by hypoglycemia (though my gnome

doesn't indulge in this direction much, but

will if someone provided the sample matter,

will happily take sugar levels for a more

scientific test ;-) )

 

If you normal sugar sensors still work then you would know soon enough that you have to do something. In some people this simply ins't the case and the effects just overrun them.

If you ignore the adrenaline and related

effects of hypoglycemia long enough, and

your sugar levels fail to rise to normal

level again, you can enter a state which

is sort of, um, blissful, oblivious?

That is probably not the word, but you can

sit there knowing what you should be doing

to counter-act the hypoglycemia but simply

don't. I have wondered if this is part of

the use of fasting in certain religious

thingys?

Let sugar levels drop further and memory

fails, and you wake up with a medical worker

having just shoved some glucogen into you

or even worse, perhaps not waking up at all

(though I do suspect death may be better than

the brain-damage that could be caused in

extreme cases)

Regarding foods to counteract hypos, I prefer

drinks containting glucose due to their ease

of consumption and perceived quicker

absorbtion rates - I have developed something

of a dislike for jelly beans but they work

well.

[This message has been edited by somnif (edited 12 January 2003).]

[Torsten]

Originally posted by bluemeanie:

Stamets in his book and he is quoting Gartz.

Ooops, I read a word that wasn't there. I thought you wrote

'converted to tryptophan'. Rather than without the 'to', in which case it means 'from'

Yes, obviously I agree. But I am not sure why you mentioned it....???

[spiders]

I just thought that sense you have suggested that an individual can lessen these after-effects by consuming tryptophan, it might have some relevance to the reactions that cause them.

[occidentalis]

Well, I fit into the latter category (skinny guys).

Could consuming sugary stuff beforehand cause problems like a sudden spike in blood sugar levels followed by a sharp drop?(probably there is a technical term to describe this, but you get the idea...)

[somnif]

Could consuming sugary stuff beforehand...

People who get this drop in blood sugar levels

are said to have Hypoglycemia. It seemed a

pretty fashionable diagnosis a few years back.

(note that there is 'Hypoglycemia', the name

of the problem & hypoglycemia, the event - ie

you can have a hypoglycemic event (low sugar

levels) without actually being Hypoglycemic.)

Normal people will have a slightly raised

sugar level after eating sugary stuff (~6

mmol/litre max) and it settles down fairly

quickly to around ~5.5 millimoles/litre). In

someone who suffers from Hypoglycemia,

seemingly too much insulin is produced causing

a lower than normal sugar level (I think this

form is called Reactive Hypoglycemia)

Hypoglycemic effects (sweating, shakiness,

general feeling of adrenaline being dumped

into the system (unexpected clearing of the

nasal passages when I had a stuborn cold

once :-) ) start when you drop below about

~3.0 mmol/l - however, this value depends

somewhat on what your average sugar levels

have been in recent times (in a sense, you

get tolerance) Below about 1.8 mmol/l and

you are at risk of losing awareness and

potentially falling into a coma.

On the other hand, having sugar levels above

~10 mmol/l+ (anything above ~7.5 mmol/l is

what I would regard as odd for someone who

isn't a diabetic) as a badly controlled

diabetic may have leads to *hyper*glycemia,

which has the signs of frequent urination,

blurred vision, deep thirst, weight loss.

On going hyperglycema can may indicate

ketoacidosis which is essentially caused by a

lack of insulin (rather than high sugar

levels) - it is where fats are directly(ish)

transformed by the body into energy - a

wonderful way to rapidly lose weight but also

leads to an acid build up in the body causing

a lowering of pH thus all sorts of important

chemical reactions are buggered. Too many

ketones and you are at risk of falling into

a coma.

Sorry for rambling; in summary, your pancreas

and body in general does a remarkable

balancing act when all is okay.

[This message has been edited by somnif (edited 12 January 2003).]

[Torsten]

yeah, sorry bluemeanie.

must have been a bit thick yesterday.

Your point was rather obvious in retrospect

And yes, taking tryptophan or 5HTP before shrooms will certainly improve the experience, especially for those prone to anxiety states during shrooms trips.

[occidentalis]

Thanks somnif

'Twas a very interesting and informative ramble.