illegal chemical=illegal plant?

[dracos6]

hey guys,

just wondering if a chemical is illegal to import then is a plant containing said chemical also illegal to import?

if so what about untreated dried plant material or viable seed?

i know there is an aus website that has all the schedule's, laws etc. but they are always difficult to understand and amend amend amended (and amended some more)

thanx people

[Benzito]

That is a very iffy question, and I reckon Torsten is the man who might have some knowledge here.

It becomes confusing because of the way some drugs are scheduled. Salvinorin A is, I believe, scheduled as an illegal drug INCLUDING the plant. That is 'Salvia Divinorum' is specifically mentioned in the legal paperwork.

Same story with kratom, I do believe. The plant itself is specifically mentioned, by scientific name, in the schedule.

Whereas, something like Mescaline, it only ever specifically refers to the chemical itself. So, nowhere in the law does it specifically say you can't have a (for example) T. Bridgesii.

But then it gets even more exciting because there is also AQIS to deal with. Customs are the guys who stop illegal substances, but AQIS are the guys who say whether something could be environmentally damaging. So, even if customs don't mind you importing a plant, AQIS may not allow it into Australia.

For example: Lophophora plants can be legally sold in Australia, and do contain Mescaline (which is illegal), but they can't be imported or exported.

So, in that case, it would actually be AQIS preventing you from the import, not 'the law'.

This is my basic understanding. Someone please provide correct and understandable information.

[Torsten]

draco - sounds like you are inquiring specifically about import laws, ie the customs act. In that case the answer is simple: YES. Any material that contains a substance listed in schedule 4 of the customs act is automatically a prohibited import. Now, the customs act apparently does not have an analogs clause, so that is one benefit, but it it rather extensive, so most things are included anyway.

On top of that you need to be aware of possession laws in your respective state as anything delivered to you from overseas is then intended for your possession. The state and federal drug laws are a little more complex, but again, if the herb contains a scheduled substance then it is illegal (with the exception of treated seeds).

[Thelema]

SIGH

After citing from it many times, and even providing a direct link to the customs analog clause in AUSTLII from the current act (which is schedule 6, not schedule 4), it seems that some people are doubtful that there is a customs analog clause.

There is, and here it is:(at the bottom)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/con...01124/sch6.html

There is no reason to doubt evidence that is as plain as the back of your hand!

It also seems that live animals are exempt from application of schedule 6, but this is hardly a helpful exemption. Except maybe in the case of bacteria genetically engineered to produce certain drugs. This exemption cannot be gleaned from the act, I might mention.

[ 21. April 2005, 15:18: Message edited by: Thelema ]

[Torsten]

Ooops! I was actually trying to get it right this time, but got mixed up again. But in the process I did some more research which has finally straightened this out. You have argued repeatedly that the schedule of concern is "Customs Act schedule 6". I have countered this saying that the schedule of concern in "Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956 as in force under the Customs act of 1901".

Your link goes to the schedule you refer to and this LINK goes to the schedule within the regulations I refer to.

Looking at the case law it seems offenders are generally charged under the regulations.

Furthermore the Customs act itself does not refer to any of its own schedules for defining an offence, but rather refers to regulations.

In particular section 50 paragraph 3 of the customs act states:

(3)Without limiting the generality of paragraph (2)©, the regulations:

(a)may provide that the importation of the goods is prohibited unless a licence, permission, consent or approval to import the goods or a class of goods in which the goods are included has been granted as prescribed by the regulations made under this Act or the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989 ; and

(b)in relation to licences or permissions granted as prescribed by regulations made under this Act—may make provision for and in relation to:

(4)A person is guilty of an offence if:

(a)a licence or permission has been granted, on or after 16 October 1963, under the regulations; and

.....

(check the full text HERE

More important in that section 50 is probably paragraph 1, which reads:

(1)The Governor-General may, by regulation, prohibit the importation of goods into Australia.

Section 233BAA also refers exclusively to the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations in defining 'Tier 1' drug imports (schedule 4).

Section 233BAB also solely refers to Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations to define Tier 2 goods (most other schedules).

Section 270 solely refers to the regulations.

So just when it looks like that all offences are based on the regulations I look up the definition section under "Narcotic substance":

means a substance or thing that is named or described in column 1 of Schedule VI or any other substance or thing for the time being declared by the regulations to be a narcotic substance.

So it appears that both Schedule 6 of the customs act as well as all the schedules of the Prohibited Import Regulations make up the list of prohibited imports. Neither schedule can be dismissed!!

So yes, there is an analogs clause. But also, do not rely on the outdated customs schedule 6 as the new laws are all passed as regulations in the Prohibited Imports Regulatons.

[Benzito]

gee, my response was almost that thorough.

I list my references as: www.projectvoyeur.com

There, at least now I feel half as clever as those guys above. :D

[dracos6]

arrrg. pretty much what i thought, unfortunatly.

so if a seed has been treated does this mean it is no longer viable or devoid of any alkaloid content. or does this depend on type of treatment?

thanks guys

[Torsten]

Originally posted by dracos6:

arrrg. pretty much what i thought, unfortunatly.

so if a seed has been treated does this mean it is no longer viable or devoid of any alkaloid content. or does this depend on type of treatment?

thanks guys

Seed treatment has nothing to do with viability or content. It just happens to be a legal exemption under the federal schedules. However, seed treatment does not have ANY impact on customs laws. eg, Tabernanthe iboga seeds are quarantine permitted, not scheduled in any state, but customs prohibited due to ibogaine content, hence are legal to possess, but illegal to import.

[smogs]

fuck i love beurocracy like this

haha

when my brother was attending highschool... if you were late

you had to...

go to your class to get a note...

you then ahd to take that note to the office to get signed

and return to your teach to get signed

then you had to take it home to get signed by your parents

take it to the office to get it signed and verified...

then take it back to your teacher again

and i think possibly back to the office again to get filed

mmmm paper work

that bacteria idea is a good 1... its actually pretty plasusable too

[Thelema]

AHHH

nice work Torsten!

notable omissions from both schedules include:

Salvia Divinorum and SalvinorinA

AMT

Mitragyna Speciosa and Mitragynine.

[Torsten]

Don't quote me on this, but I thought I read somewhere in that act yesterday that customs has the right to hold any item that is illegal under other legislation even if not prohibited under customs schedules and regulations. I am not sure if they are allowed to prosecute under that as well, but at the very least they can alert state or federal police to the intercept.

[Torsten]

I have just read the latest version of the customs act and much of what has been discussed in this thread has changed dramatically. It's a bit late now, so I won't start working it all out, but I will try to get it all condensed by tomorrow. The core of it is that there does not appear to be a schedule 6 in the act (as claimed by Thelema). It appears that the list of restrictions is set out in the schedules of the regulations, which in this case would be schedule 4 of the import regulations. The Customs Act also refers to the Criminal Code and enacts any substance listed in the schedules of the Criminal Code to be restricted as if they were in schedule 4 of the import regulations.

The Criminal Code is a complex beast, but luckily I read it a couple of weeks ago so I've got a pretty good handle on it already. It's kinda like an emergency schedule for drugs and precursors.

What I want to find out now is why austlii listed schedule 6 so recent (still?). From what I gather this schedule hasn't been part of the act for quite a long time.

Thelema - were you working from austlii or from hardcopy?

[Rev]

nevermind...

Edited March 4, 2006 by Rev