Torsten Posted May 30, 2003 By ANTHONY DEUTSCH AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - The latest news from the mecca of marijuana users is a real mindblower. Under a new ban on smoking in public places, Dutch coffee shops would be allowed to continue selling joints, but customers would have to go outside to smoke them. To the chagrin of the owners of the country's popular marijuana smoking establishments, broad national health guidelines due to take effect next January seem to have inadvertently struck at the heart of the liberal Dutch drug policy. The law to ban smoking in public places is targeted at tobacco users, not marijuana smokers, and has met fierce resistance from eating and drinking establishments. Those businesses argued the tobacco smoking prohibition would result in the loss of 50,000 jobs and $1.5 billion in revenues annually. So the industry - as well as coffee shops which sell marijuana - has been granted a one-year extension until January 2005. Regardless, opponents say the ban will drive smoking customers at regular bars and cafes - about one in three of the Dutch smoke tobacco - across the borders to Germany and Belgium where it would still be allowed. The first coffee shop selling marijuana and hashish opened in the Netherlands in 1972 and they now number more than 800 countrywide. Growers and sellers compete in annual taste-testing competitions in Amsterdam, where millions of tourists a year sample the vast varieties advertised on menus. Besides selling small quantities of what the Dutch call ``soft-drugs,'' many coffee shops also offer patrons comfortable couches, fresh fruit juices and board games. Alcohol is generally forbidden. Reactions in Dutch coffee shops ranged from utter amazement to concern about what will happen to the three-decade-old tradition in Amsterdam of social pot smoking. ``They've got to be out of their minds,'' laughed Annemiek van Royan, a regular at the ``Kashmir Lounge'' coffee shop in West Amsterdam. Lighting up a joint of Dutch ``skunk weed,'' she said she comes every day to hang out and talk with other visitors who can lean back on colorful embroidered cushions and puff away. ``I bought a joint for now and a little more for later at home. The best part is coming here to relax. It makes my day,'' she said, asking the dealer jokingly if he was going to start selling hash cake. ``Cake is so strong, it's too dangerous. People never know how much to eat,'' said Johan de Vries, the bartender at the Kashmir Lounge. He suggested building a heated outdoor terrace to get around the new law. Health Ministry spokesman Bas Kuik said the law was not intended to target coffee shops, and - as in all public areas - they could have designated smoking areas. The sale of marijuana is officially illegal, but its use has been decriminalized. Authorities allow the coffee shops to operate under strict guidelines as a way of exerting some control over behavior that they argue would happen anyway. Studies show that use of such drugs is no greater in the Netherlands than in countries where its is banned. Even the head of the anti-smoking lobby Clean Air Now, Willem van den Oetelaar, conceded that banning pot smoking in coffee shops had not been the intended purpose of the campaign to stop public smoking. But he still backed the move. ``It's not our priority, but it is a good thing,'' he said. Van den Oetelaar said the organization's telephone hot line had received more than 2,000 complaints about smoking in public places since October - but not one complaint about a coffee shop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted May 30, 2003 hehehehhahahahha, lol. :D Hehehe, they should have vaporizers in all coffee shops then?!!! Nice clean tar free highs :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted May 31, 2003 Cant they come up with better solutions....????????- this IS the perfect solution(from the perspective ov the "wanting to still appear liberal" health obsessed dutch govt., who have for the last 20years become increasingly frustrated w/the massive number ov "drug" tourists & "coffee shops"- they've been shutting them down under various ordinances en masse.) they should have vaporizers in all coffee shops then?!!!- they do & bongs, chillums, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted June 2, 2003 People should stop Whinging and Whining about shit :mad: If you don't like the smoke.......stay clear of the fire :confused: (BTW I do have a spare home made vaporiser-(thumbs up!!),i use eucalypt for colds!-p.m. 4 swap?? [ 02. June 2003, 04:47: Message edited by: mescalito ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted June 2, 2003 Originally posted by mescalito: stay clear of the fire Easier said then done. I am all for freedom of choice, but as a non-smoker whre is my freedom of choice when all the best restaurants, best cloubs, pubs, parties, friends etc etc all expose me to smoke. It's not just that I find the smell of cigarette smoke disgusting, but as an asthmatic I have a good reason for not wanting to put up with second hand smoke. A general smoking ban in public places is heaven on earth for me. It gives me so many more choices. And it doesn't diminish the smokers choices, cos they can always go outside for a quick puff. As a DJ, club & party promoter, bartender, musician, etc I have always been exposed to smoke in my workplace. To 'stay clear of the fire' would have meant a totally different lifestyle and career for me. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. But only as far as it doesn't limit the freedom of choice of other people. Years ago there used to be one of those smart-ass posters around which summed it up nicely for me. I paraphrase: "Your indulgence is cigarettes and the byproduct is stale smoke. This smoke gets into my eyes and deposits in my hair & clothes and makes them stink. My indulgence is beer and I don't put my byproduct all over you." In some way I agree with 'stay clear of the fire', but only as far as it guarantees the freedom of choice for everyone. In the case of holland the solution is simple. Any establishment which has smoking as its main source of income should become a designated smoking zone. Non-smokers who choose to enter such establishments will simply have to put up with the smoke. However, there is no justification (and never has been) why smokers should have more of a right of expression than non-smokers in establishments where smoking is not the main activity. The problem with smoking bans is that smokers regard the smoking ban as an infringement of their freedom of choice. however they are totally oblivious to the fact that their smoking is already and infringement of the freedom of choice of the non-smokers around them. For years smokers were in the majority and the 'big-tobacco dollars' ruled society. Now things have changed and in my opinion they are only just normalising. Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to see smoking banned everywhere. I just want to see it banned where it infringes on the feedom of others. What people do in their own time and in the consensus of their fraction of the community is entirely up to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted June 2, 2003 I'd kick someones ass if they were smoking in my house, and I'm a smoker! Smoking should be done outside, unless its in an airport bar where its just too damned inconvenient to get outside (one thing I liked about the Dallas/Fort Worth Texas airport). I agree, keep it out of resteraunts, shopping malls, etc. I'd think allowing pot smokin' in cannabis shops would be bad for business- walk in, say 'oh, I'm just browsing', get stoned to the tits on free secondhand smoke, and leave. Free weed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted June 3, 2003 Hmmm see ya point there Torsten,I've been a smoker/non/smoker/non-on and off,and I can remeber after giving up the first time,it smelt like shit and made me feel dirty I don't like smoking in enclosed spaces,and am always aware where the dragons tail is heading when I smoke near others (that's just me). But I guess it's a legal drug;and,with the taxes taken....cigarette bars could be designated-charcoal filtered air handlers installed in bars(at the expense of little Johnny ) I don't like smoking anyway :confused: :confused: :confused: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted June 6, 2003 By Anthony Deutsch I just realised I went to school with this guy. What a freaky small world this is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted June 6, 2003 So Ed, have you made contact with him?? small world Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
