Torsten Posted January 4, 2003 The f*ckers have actually referred mitragynine for scheduling. We all know how this will end, so go and get it before the final scheduling (probably in June). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted January 4, 2003 http://www.shaman-australis.com/Website/Mi...ynaspeciosa.htm for those like me, w/tragic short term memory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
somnif Posted January 4, 2003 [rant] This really seems an odd one - have they stated their reasons? There could hardly be enough data about for them to make an informed decision considering the number of Australians who would've actually consumed the substance. Is it possible to track down the individual who/group started this process and what exactly their motives and experience with the substance is? It seems to me that their objective is to schedule in the interests of the major Pharmaceutical companies. Are the TGA meetings open affairs or do we just recieve transcripts/summarys? You must wonder if these forums are a major source of their reasons behind scheduling. Have I missed something - is there large scale importation/growth/use of this substance or is there predicted to be? Personally I don't regard the substance as *that* wonderful that it could justify this. [/rant] Grrrr....certainly. [This message has been edited by somnif (edited 04 January 2003).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwydion Posted January 4, 2003 Right then. I want one (just in case they change their minds, of course). Anyone got one for sale/ swap? Frikkin´ beauridjucy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 4, 2003 I want ten. I'll start saving up for them now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 4, 2003 After calming down a bit and thinking about it some more I now think that it is heading for an S4 schedule rather than S9.... along the same lines as ibogaine (from memory). That is bearable and maybe not a bad thing at all. At least a S4 rating acknowledges that there is therapeutic value, which is difficult to remove at a later time. The TGA process is not open or democratic. However the "record of reason" that is released after the meeting will show why it was referred. Names will usually be blanked out though. I presume this one is pushed by the herbal medicine bunch - just like salvia. No, I don't think SAB forums are of any significance in scheduling. We have never been mentioned in any of the records of reason. That is not to ay this isn't possible sometime in the future, but for the moment it seems the international forums (especially the well monitored drug forums) are the main source of info. I don't think the TGA accesses these directly, but I think the individual people who refer these matters to one of the committees probably get their info from such sites. The record of reason will shed a lot lot more light on this when it is available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted January 4, 2003 "it seems the international forums (especially the well monitored drug forums) are the main source of info." We got germans, americans, australians, israelis, south americans, frenchmen, and many more I cant remember right now. You're telling me this is NOT a international forum? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted January 5, 2003 Auxin, i think Torsten was referring to forums based internationally, not international forums so to speak take care gerbil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 5, 2003 In terms of spirit plants, aya.com, bluelight, hive, and many others, SAB is rather insignificant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted January 5, 2003 insignificant = you can wipe my arse clean with that! If I do a websearch, on a spp. that I am not entirely familiar with, SAB comes up 25% of the time. To me SAB is a good source of info.... I'd put it up there with some of the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 5, 2003 Brian, the reason why SAB comes up in the top 10 on certain species is that I spent a lot of time maximising my search engine exposure a few years ago. When I first started I thought I had to compete with very internet savvy competitors (overseas), but soon realised that wasn't the case. It is only the obscure species and the SAB specialties that pop up frequently. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by Torsten:It is only the obscure species and the SAB specialties that pop up frequently. like Mitragyna perhaps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 6, 2003 yes, I worked hard to get a high listing on that one. not sure what it is now, but it used to be No1 on all major engines Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted January 6, 2003 "insignificant = you can wipe my arse clean with that!"- sweet turn ov phrase i didn't post that link to suggest anything like "sab puts too much info out there". i am just vacant & didn't recognise the name- it was the first decent link i found from a google search, 3rd i think. i think torsten is maybe undervaluing the importance ov search engines? personally i found sab via google & have never seen pages from 'the hive' or other places torsten mentions. having high content quality information readily available is our strongest weapon, confusion helps no-one. i agree w/brian, to me sab will never be 'insignificant' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted January 6, 2003 "personally i found sab via google & have never seen pages from 'the hive' or other places torsten mentions." I got here by google too I have seen the hive but I didnt stick around there, I dont like prison that much- and I hate meth lab operators (its because of those bastards that noone can have perfectly legal amature chem labs anymore without being tormented, robbed, and blackmailed by the cops. Is it any wonder why america has to import its intellectuals?) BTW, a Mitragyna search on google lists SAB third (ethnobotanicals.com first, basementshaman second). So your still up there at the top of the search engines. [a google search for chemical shaman came up with the SAB chatroom as the first result of the search. "Most likely Chemical Shaman will be yapping to nobody in particular aboot ankle masturbation, although you probably won't actually get CS - look out for the craziest nicknamed dude talking aboot vulgar topics, and it will probably be a CS incarnate."] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted January 8, 2003 Torsten, is there anything that can be done against the scheduling like set up a Thomas.Munro.com type page on it? Collect petition signatures etc...? Could you keep us posted in some way (maybe a web page on it to inform as many people as possible) E D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 9, 2003 yes, there are a few things that can be done. however as we don't know what their intentions are, we need to wait for the recommendation of the committee first. I will post the results of the meeting as soon as the decision is made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
somnif Posted January 9, 2003 Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the facis^H^H^H^H^H powers that be (ie the herbal medicine bunch) try to get saliva S4'd but opps, there is goes into S9? I reckon that they'll have a hard time keeping it aimed at S4 once the pharmaceutical bunch (ie the capitalists the be) get a look in. Pure speculation, and I know nothing of how the board actually operates of course ;-) BTW, what is the difference between Schedule 8 and Schedule 9? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by somnif: Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the facis^H^H^H^H^H powers that be (ie the herbal medicine bunch) try to get saliva S4'd but opps, there is goes into S9? I don't think they specified anything. They just wanted it dealt with by the committee. The recommending body doesn't really determine the schedule - this is done by the committe in all cases. BTW, what is the difference between Schedule 8 and Schedule 9 I don't have it handy right now, but it says so in the front of the SUSDP. I think it had something to do with availability.... S8 being dangerous but with some need for availability (eg dexies). S9 is just plain evil stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted January 10, 2003 Torsten, you've said that the scheduling of substances is not democratic, it may sound ignorant, but yes i am in this part, or else i wouldn't ask the question, how could this be changed? if a move for this is done, maybe less substances will be scheduled? just a thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 10, 2003 the committe is appointed by the government. however half of it are representatives from various asociations and interest groups. The alternative community is represented by only a single member and he is from Bullivants health foods - the worlds largest supplement manufacturer. All others are from the AMA, dental association, veterinary association, agriculture, police etc etc. The government does not get to choose the actual people on the committee. The rgulations they make do not have to pass through any parliament to become law. This is where the main problem lies. Also, any challenge to the decisions is only to the committee who can refuse to review the matter. So essentially, if they don't feel like it they can bury something so deep it will never be looked at again and there is nothing any of us can do about it. yes, to change our laws and to make the TGA accountable we need to change the structure of the TGA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
