t st tantra Posted September 8, 2003 have one ed's sceletium available now. will have a few 'real' tortuosum available in the next week or so. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted September 8, 2003 is there a difference between an ed's and a "real"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted September 8, 2003 ed's is possibly expansum, my plant from him is certainly expansive,ed seems to agree. the 'real' is from a botanically labeled tortuosum,ed should have one growing now and may comment,it is a stockier plant,more upright and has more pronounced scelitonization. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted September 9, 2003 I'm still waiting for my "possible expansum" to flower for a positive identification. But I'm enclined to believe it is one as my mother plant is very expansive in growth, as are all the cuttings so far. S. expansum has been labled along with S. tortuosum as being active Sceletiums, in Trouts Notes. And "Ed" has shown to be active, but I'm always looking for a possible other strain/variety/species to compare strengths with. There most likely will be stronger and a weaker ones out there. The cuttings you have sent me are at the moment in dormancy as I have had to leave then for 6 weeks without attention (I was away on holidays). They did however show great scelitonization on their dried leaves. I also have a seedling growing well from the "Luke the Lad" seeds only one came up. (again!!!! ) See what that one will be like. Also, my S. joubertii seedlings are still alive and well but these plants are quite a bit smaller then expansum and tortuosum when mature. I shall hand them out when a bit more robust. Or seeds when they flower. (which I think they will do easier, and the seed shows a much better germination rate) I will also make more cuttings of the Ed strain available for the few that possibly haven't got it yet. E D [ 08. September 2003, 20:54: Message edited by: Ed Dunkel ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted September 9, 2003 i am worried that my sceletium might not want to flower in northern nsw, because the winterday's are too long. in other words, is the flowering connected to the photoperiode? i got a few "ed strain" plant's, but allthou many are expansive, many of them show aswell tight upright grow. taken from genuine upright inhibitor shoots. got two seedling's both luke the lad and they show only tight upright grow aswell. it's just an appereance thing changing with age in this case. i got one rooted sceletium leave cutting, but it doe'nt get any shoots... got one albino sceletium. i will make my two seedling's material avail... i guess ed's is expansum but, anyone got better flower pic's than in shulte's book? it's said that,the tortuosum has aswell fatter, triangle (profile view) leaves. the flowers of the tortuosum are yellow the expansum's are whiteish, true? http://www.scribbles.funrx.com/golden_guide/g41-50.htm scroll to kanna... [ 09. September 2003, 12:46: Message edited by: planthelper ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted September 10, 2003 planthelper - mine is flowering now.... as in literally today. don't know off the top of my head if this is ED's or other, but I think it is other. I have seen pics from traditional channa farms and the plants were as expansive as all the strains I have. On the other hand, simply restricting their food and water will cause them to be extremely compact and highly sceletonised. I still need convincing about any of these being expansum. Are there any floral characteristics that can help in the determination? Surely it isn't based purely on whether the stems stretch a bit more than tortuosum (in which case specification may be irrelevant anyway). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Cadaver Posted September 11, 2003 (edited) not a sinlge germ, what a crock of shit from a monkey of the massess. Edited March 13, 2007 by darcy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted September 11, 2003 shhhh, now everyone will want some actually, supply very limited and probably won't last more than a month at this rate. Took a pic of the plant today, but haven't uploaded it yet - tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted September 11, 2003 just had a closer look at my sceletium, and yes they are getting ready to flower. even a seedling only a few month young is forming a bud. in german those plants belong to the family of middayflower's, it's a hint to the fact that most of them open there flowers at lunchtime. in english azioaceae is a hint ref. to the icy appereance of the leaves. if all goes well, i shall produce a huge amount of seeds. oh, one more thing, i read, that the flowers are said to be the strongest part of the plant. [ 11. September 2003, 10:26: Message edited by: planthelper ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted September 16, 2003 have scels from three sources. the ones that i grew from seed(imported from canada) have a pattern of growing very flat along the ground whereas eds strain tends to stand a little taller - my original cutting is being trained into a small tree shape. i'm finding that those cuttings that are in pots are very prone to flowering. have many hundreds of flowers about to open on the eds type and the "lay flat" type has been flowering for a month or so already. may have thousands of plants for sale soon if i don't see an increase in demand for the finished product. perhaps i might just go into marketing the seeds when they set. if anyone has a need for bulk scel at a suitable price just let me know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitty Posted September 17, 2003 I've got enough product to last me awhile, but am very keen on some plants... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted September 17, 2003 Mine are forming buds and will soon flower, so we can finally find out what it is!! :D I'll take some piccies with my digital cam (it has a macro function) and post them. This is cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted September 20, 2003 the other one i have is flowering now,with those long floppy petals as shown in many pics,white. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted September 21, 2003 I'm very interested in these species Being in the southern highlands,would this plant like our outdoor climate?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted September 23, 2003 first flower of ed's opend to day, yes its expansum showing yellow core and white petals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 5, 2003 am I missing something?? suddenly everyone is an expert on sceletium classification and i can't even find a decent botanical description (or even a picture) of S.expansum. Are you guys actually working from anything substantial or are you just making it up as you go along? Most of the pics I have seen of tortuosum show pretty much the expansive growth habit that seems to lead everyone here to classifying it as expansum. Some of the online tortuosum pics are just like the supposed expansums I have here. These are actually more expansive than what I have. http://www.sceletium.co.za/ On the other hand, when I reduced the water and food supply to this 'expansum' it suddenly looked like a tortuosum again. If anyone has some decent pics or some botanical descriptions I would love to see them please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted October 8, 2003 Still waiting for mine to flower, the buds are half open but have been like that for a week!!! Maybe some warmer weather will spur it on. Then I'll get it identified with the RBG-Melbourne. Till then we will all just have to wait for positive identification. Unless we have a Sceletium expert amongst us that want's to help. The growth habit is very variable for this sceletium , wet/dry, sun/shade all seem to give either fleshy or tough-hardy-compact growth (and forms in between) The end goal really is if it is active and if it produces a lot of active agent(s). Your stomach and mind really is not going to be concerned with expansum or tortuosum. .....but it is nice to have a name on a label. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 8, 2003 Ed that didn't answer my question at all Where did the suggestion of expansum come from? why not one of the other species names? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted October 8, 2003 i guess ed's is expansum because it looks like the picture in the book i mentioned. i saw pics of tortuosum flowering at a russian site and it looked different (tort u might remember i allways had my id doubts with this one but u kept saying its TORTuosum...). tortuosum has bigger flowers and more yellow color overall, the expansum flower is much smaller and white in color only the centre is colored yellow. seems i became an expert. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted October 8, 2003 torsten,you should get a very nice ex-botanically labled tortuosum tommorow,hopefully this will explain some of what i am saying.when i first saw this plant in autumn it appeared to be begining a growth phase,the first leaves on a node were quite triangular in thickness but as they took off the leaves became thiner,a storage mechanism? as the plant was in a glass house i dont know if this is its natural cycle. my eds has smaller flowers,with more yellow in the centre compared with the other. isnt it natural we should have different perspectives,the experts often have different opinions on many different plant and fungii classifications.but we all put forward our points of veiw until we reach a concensus.i am amazed at how quickly we reach these cutting edges of knowledge and beleive we have something to offer to such debates.and why dont the scientists do more dna profiling and answer some of these q's,say the classification of subs as an example? t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Dunkel Posted October 8, 2003 The suggestion came from planthelper, and mine seems to have an expansive type growth. But because there is more to identifying than just growth habits (as this species seems to have such a variable morphology as it is) thus I am waiting for it to be properly identified before I label it tortuosum, expansum or any of the other similar species. Maybe we have the same problem with these as we have with the "pachanoids" in the sense they cross easily and show quite marked differences within a species making it a hard one to fully identify. Seriously, I'm not at all that concerned if it is one or the other so long we can get some active strains going!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted October 8, 2003 is there a reference somewhere for the ease at which these things will cross pollinate? i have two distinctly different types and may have to continue propogating asexually. noticed also on the link that tort put up that some of the scel they were processing appeared to be dry, that would make fermentation difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 9, 2003 I actually don't really care which is which (as long as they are active), I was just wondering why everyone suddenly knew what S.expansum is supposed to look like while I can't even find a pic or description of it anywhere. The other problem is one I encounter often....most recently with Trichocereus. If the genus has 60 species, then chances are every trich looking cactus will be identified as one of the top 5 most popular by the cacti enthusiasts. Fact is they have no idea what the other 55 look like. My point is that there are a dozen or so Sceletium species and a shitload of synonyms, and yet we are throwing aroudn two names pretty much indiscriminately as far as I can tell. We use tortuosum simply because that's what it is supposed to be, and we use expansum simply because it indicates a more expansive habit. More expansive than what though?? maybe S.expansum was classified in reference to another compact growing species and is in fact less expansive than tostuosum. get my drift? Unless someone actually comes up with some details that we can all use to make up our minds, we are really just fumbling in the dark. Hence my question if anyone has any concrete material that may help in IDing these buggers. I think tomorrow will be an exciting mail day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
