Hey all yet another cactus ID: giant Pedro?

[Trip Dr]

Here she is, first pic is pretty big so might take a bit to load. The specimen in question isn't flowering any more, but has flowers extreamly similar to the ones on link at the end which is from the SAB page.

Id say it's about 3-4 meters high, well over twenty years old. Spines range from a few mm to a couple of inches.

Some branches(?) have seven or more ribs, others six.

The flowers are like the ones in this pic Flowers

Trip Dr

[Salviador]

HOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY CRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP THAT IS GIGANTIC

[Torsten]

You've found the motherload!! Looks like a scop or pachanoi kinda thing. In fact it looks a lot like Trichocereus sp(presumably T.cordobensis) 'Lance', but Michael might be able to give you more details on that.

In any case it is a little different to anything I have and I would love to get a cutting if possible. fancy a swap?

[Ed Dunkel]

"Can I be your friend......"

How about it, every member gets a cutting

and you will still have enough to munch away.

[Guest electro]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm munchie

lol

good work ....

from afar its ribs look too thin, but those close ups of the top are definatley tasty looking.

[Rev]

Im assuming this isnt your cactus from the angle of the photo

If the owners will only give you little bits would you consider asking permission to collect pollen anyway as i can see the flower buds forming

I keep the pollen collected on cotton tipped ear cleaning thingies (name please?) in zip locks in the butter compartment

Its a little early to say but it looks like the fruits of an Echinopsis X Pachanoi are forming. I have bridgesii and if you could send me some of this its going to get very interesting

I could send you some various pollen in the mail to put onto yours as well.

I keep pollen handy in the fridge and would love to have some of this to continue with my X's both

In return i can offer you seed and or plants that result from any such X's

Please PM me if you wouldnt mind doing this

[M S Smith]

Wow, that is incredible!!

As for ID I will tend more towards it being a T. pachanoi rather than a standard T. scopulicola (which it clearly is not). I would also not be so sure it is the longer spined T. scopulicola known commonly as T. cordobensis ("Lance") as these plants usually have much more of a horned colored spine. The spines are nice and yellow like T. pachanoi. Such color difference are of course only noticable in the young spines.

Here's a test at least to give a bit of info. The T. pachanoi have a very waxy smooth skin when one runs ones fingernail (90 degree angle with the tip of the nail) up and down on the skin. T. scopulicola, or T. cordobensis, will have a rougher (matte) skin in comparison to T. pachanoi. Give a fingernail test and get back to us.

~Michael~

[Trip Dr]

Thanks for the replies everyone! It's no probs to get a few cuttings, but would the smaller 'pups' that are growig off sideways be better?

I have little knowledge of cacti care, but i'll do a bit of reading so i can try get some rooted cuttings. I know this thing must root fairly easily because numerous times the branches has become too heavy and fallen to the ground sending out tap roots everywhere.

I don't know about pollen as it has just recently flowered all have now died off.

If memory serves correctly(which it frequently doesn't ) it has a very smooth/waxy feel, however i'll confirm this soon.

Trip Dr

[mr b.caapi]

what part of the country is this growing?

[Guest electro]

get whatever part you can, they will all grow (unless its the left over bit from a flower, in which case i think it will fall off )

if they were letting me take cuttings id get some big thick bits (more nutrients to supply pups when you slice it up to root it[as a whole bunch of cactii])

[theobromos]

I assume they like it as an ornamental, in which case suggesting that you take out those four unsightly long branches in the centre would go down well. Improve the shape and encourage the side branches.

[reshroomED]

That's enormous.

You may actually do good things in taking a few cuttings. I first thinned out a big bridgesii two years ago. A similar situation to the one pictured in that there were a lot of branches all growing vertically and touching each other, though nowhere near as large. Soon after taking the cuttings (mid Jan), pups began to sprout all over. The stumps left seem to form multiple pups over the next twelve months. This year pup growth alone has totalled well over 24'.

And those spines emerging fully formed at the growing tip are grouse. That's where the snails get on mine and scar and stunt them terribly if I'm not vigilant.

If you take some cuttings, I'd be happy to trade.

ed

[woof woof woof]

That looks very much like the Trichocerues Glaucus!

Labeled by "KK" as Trich Glaucus.

http://trout.yage.net/sc/KKTrichs/KK336/pa...KK336_9_jpg.htm

the spines in the pic are dark,.... when growing the spines will become much lighter.

I have a few glaucus growing. I do not know if it is an active trich. Trout said that there is a good chance it is.

[M S Smith]

Hey Brian, as I'm sure you are aware Trout got these "T. glaucus" from Karol Knize. Trout rightfully questions Knize's ID as it doesn't match the Ritter description. I don't give Knize any attention besides the fact that he has put forward a number of very interesting looking plants, but I don't trust his ID. Honestly I believe he intentionally mislables plants, and creates new names, only to increase sales.

Both Trout's site and my own have a few pictures of the Sacred Succulents T. glaucus.

http://trout.yage.net/sc/glaucus/glaucindex.htm

I'm going to stick with this monster of a plant being T. pachanoi.

~Michael~

[woof woof woof]

Hi MS,.......yeah I know that KK has misslabled.

I also have the one that you show in the by you posted link. sold to me as T. Glaucus chico's ( chico meaning kid )

the spiniation is clearly different from the larger cuttings I have that resemble the one in the link that I posted.

The furry stuff between the spines in DR TRIP's pic indicate to me that we are not dealing with a T patchanoi. ( At least I have never come accross a patcha with so much pronounced furry stuff surrounding the base of the spine.

The large cuttings from KK that I have clearly resemble the one on trout's site. ( the link I posted) To me Dr Trips cacti pic also resembles the one that I have.

So it is probably or might notbe a T.GLAUCUS ( as per kk labling) and to me it does not resemble any T Patch that I have come accross.

Then again I am no expert.

cheerios

[gomaos]

Perhaps Tripdr could tell us something about their potency?

[M S Smith]

Hi Brian, I think you might be mistaken in seeing that "furry stuff between the spines" as something other than the beginnings of a flower bud arising out of the areole. Certainly this furry stuff is not a common feature on even a majority of the areoles on the plant.

As for what appears to be an excessive amount of glaucescence, well I bet that it just looks that way due to the lighting during the photos (possibly a flash). I have had pictures with flashes that gave the appearence of more frosting than was observable to the naked eye. That is why I always try and take my pictures on bright but slightly overcast days. The sun and bright lights always make the skin in photos too reflective.

~Michael~

[Trip Dr]

Hey everyone,

sorry bout the slow reply!OK first off i did the finger nail test and found it to be very smooth and sort of waxy, although i could see very very small bumps.

Mr b.cappi- it's growing in SW NSW about 150km from Wagga Wagga.

Gomaos- hopefully i'll have a potency report after the weekend (anyone got a favourite pedro prep?)

Cuttings- sure i've PM'd several ppl and those that indicated an interest i'll be in touch. Anyone who wants to trade just PM me and we'll see what we can work out, but it's first in best dressed cause supply is limited.

Trip Dr

[Trip Dr]

Cacti potency test:

Ok all here's a run down on my potency experiment. ~2 feet of cacti were cut, i section was over 100mm the other around 70mm. The bigger part was a light green/yellowish colour as it was the branch seen hanging down in the first photo.

These sections wee remover of all skin and white flesh. Only the green layer under the skin was kept. The smaller diameter piece was much fresher and healthier, and it's inside texture was much different from the other piece much more sticky/gooy.

I then dried all the bit of green flesh in a fan forced oven at 80 deg.C for a couple hours. These dried bits were broken into small chips <1cm sq. I tried eating a bit of cacti that was only a little dried out. ARGH! It was terrible, so i decided the only was to get it down was by eating pinces of the chips and washing down with heaps of drink.

Me and a friend tried this. I guessed we ate about a foot of green flesh each. Took me about an hour to eat my half. I smoked a bit of weed about an hour later which kind of impaired my judgement, but my mate said he was having no effects. After two hours and still nothing we decided it was no go. Had a burbon each and waited a bit longer. Still nothing my mate went home, he and i both disappointed.

This is where it got weird. I decided to smoke a heap of weed and goto bed. Instead after smokin a few cones, i had a huge anxiety feeling sweep over me thinking "SHIT! Doesn't cacti have a MAOI in it?!?"

I then proceded to have a feeling of my heart racing and almost bursting. When i closed my eyes i thought i could see patterns. Now the bad thing is i can put any of these effects down to anything, cause i don't know if it was just all in my head or what? I should mention that these effects only manifested when i was alone.

The next day my mate said the 15min prior to going to sleep he started feeling very weird and spinning out with a wave sensation through the body and other physical effects.

Comments anyone?

Also the cuttings i have arent suitable for consumption cause they have dry patches etc.

Trip Dr

[planthelper]

sounds like its a dud,

the heart sensation could be anxiety, but i guess it came from toxins in the material.

i had the same happening to me, the very first time i tried pedro. i had good pedro, but did not know the difference of shit and clay and proceeded eating only the hard round inside core,

whilst throwing away all the good stuff, lol.

the outermost deep green stuff is what you want, dont waste your taste buds by eating the white material!!

heart papilations followed.

this happend in a country where the use of pedro is legal.

[ 01. March 2004, 10:16: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[M S Smith]

Though I certainly don't recommend eating any cactus for psychological effect I would probably say that you probably have a mescaline containing plant, but that the failure was in the preparation. In 2 feet of material (for two people) you should have had enough for some mild to moderate effect, but when you cut off the skin (did you just peal off the waxy coat or actually cut into the outermost section and discard it? - how many mm of this outer section was discarded?) and don't cut far enough towards the core you might have not got enough material.

Hypothetically speaking you would be best off by not touching the outer part (if anything just manually pulling off the waxy coating by fingernail - it is like plastic and transparent) and cutting out only the inner core - this means just cutting off the ribs a few mm off the central vascular core while throwing away the core and the material within it. This would have likely produced more positive psychoactive effect from a foot for each person. I also question the wisdom of drying the "chips" as more traditional methods of a "rolling boil" with more material to create a tea would have been best.

It should also be noted that those sections most esteemed by at least some in Peru are those plants that are thinner (from receiving less sun). It seems likely that the newest couple feet of growth on mature partial shade grown plants would be the best. Two feet each of this and I am certain any Peruvian using this plant within their native culture would have felt effects more strongly than you and your friend had.

I'm curious, how many hours between the time you finished eating your portion and the noticing of the odd effects. Mescaline takes about three hours to start effects and often causes some early body discomfort and nausea.

I think you had a very mild mescaline dose.

~Michael~

[planthelper]

but than again it might contain some actives and what michael says, is exactly what happend.

the skin is allmost impossible to peel of if you dont use the trick with putting them into the sun.

so you might have peeled most of the green away, and thus ended up with exactly what i did wrong 20 years ago, you ate the usless parts and discharged the good bits!

[mr b.caapi]

agreed! the best technique is sun drying,then peeling of the "plastic"

[Trip Dr]

No, no i succesfully only peeled the plastic like skin away. At first it took me a long time, but i soon picked up a technique where the last 6 or so inches only took about 10min. I only used the layer of green flesh(about 2-4mm thick), very little if any white material.

I hadn't heard of any sun method for getting the skin off easier.

Effects would have probably been 3 or more hours after ingestion, which is why i thought it was a dud cause reports i read suggested 2 hours for full blown effects.

Trip Dr

[gomaos]

Hmmm... sounds to me like an average san pedro... it's nothing special having to wait for 3 hrs to feel the effect, especially if you never had any before...

the gnome in the backyard says that in the beginning the feeling is very subtle, it's best to lie down, close your eyes and drift away, maybe listen to music (radiohead?)

later on normally it would keep you awake for a long while...

and the thing with having a joint or so with it: of course that amplifies the effects...

and preparing it in the stove?

I have heard from several people already that they tried that and had little to no effect...

what about the old extract making with citric acid and water...

works for the gnome anytime...

and the gnome only remembers one pedro that had absolutely no effect, years ago...

when it was still legal, the knome tried some sally extract while on san pedro...

man that really blew him away...