Mescaline content in Trichocerei species

[eccles]

This is a list I made for my own information (so I could work out which Trichocerei has the highest alkaloid content). It is the result of a very brief skimming of chapter 4 of Trout's Notes on Sacred Cacti. I am postinf it to share the info. Please add to it if you are able!

25mg+ / 100g

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Trichocereus bridgesii

Trichocereus pachanoi (Mesc. ~ 2% dry weight; ~93.5% water by weight)

Trichocereus peruvianus

Trichocereus scopulicolus

Trichocereus validus

5 – 25mg+ / 100g

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Trichocereus macrogonus (5 – 25mg / 100g)

Trichocereus taquimbalensis

Trichocereus terscheckii

Trichocereus werdermannianus

Successfully bioassayed (but no chemical data)

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Trichocereus pallarensis

[squiresk]

some good stuff in ERowids newsletter (Extracts) about the T.Peru vs T.Pach 10 times more potent theory.

Some of the data quoted incl.

T. Peruvianus, 0.817% by dry weight (Pardanani JH et al (1977))

T. Pachanoi 2.0% ... Poisson J (1960).

Pachanoi ranging from 0.33% -- 2.375%,

Peruvianus, from 0% to 0.8175

from various sources, too lazy to type.

hope this helps

Kai

[t st tantra]

ofcourse i should buy the book,but

anyway does he mention anyother species?any 0% 4 instance?

t s t.

[Guest wira]

You can't really rely on the figures in the literature. Each species will vary a LOT, and individual specimens of say, T. terscheckii, can be much more potent than most T. pachanoi. It's a complex scenario that can not be reduced to simple lists to determine 'the most potent species'.

[eccles]

tantra - yes you should buy the book. it's very good - get it from promind.com.

wira - I do agree with you that of course this is the case, however this is a better starting point than nothing, and when you are faced with a list of 59 trichocereus species at a cactus seed vendor you need SOME way to differentiate between them...

That is unless you want to spend well over $100 on seed, and THEN have room to grow it all out... that is why I made this list, and I posted it here so that other people would be able to use it in the same way. Of course alkaloid content varies... but if something is ON this list, then chances are it will be worth cultivating (please don't take this to mean that I do not consider non-mescaline bearing cacti worth cultivating, but when you have limited space it is a must to specialise).

do you have any species to add, Wira, that I have not listed here, that would be worth getting for one reason or another? (the fact is I can't see myself at any point in the near future actually attempting to harvest mescaline from any of my plants...)

thanks!

[Guest wira]

I didn't mean to seem like I was having a go at you. It's just that many people try to over-simplify a lot and it can give the wrong impression to others. However now that you've explained it I understand what you want to do here and have no problem with that.

Traces of mescaline have also been found in T. cuzcoensis, T. fulvilanus, T. strigosus, T. thelegonoides [not thelegonus, a different species], and T. vollianus.

T. puquiensis has not been analysed but has been bioassayed and found to give mescaline-like effects. The white-flowered 'variety' of T. grandiflorus peformed similarly for someone; the taxonomy of that species is under dispute. The following were reported to be psychoactive/psychedelic but different to mescaline - T. pasacana, T. smrzianus, T. spachianus [usually inactive for most people who have reported trying it], T. 'Tom Juul's Giant'. T. atacamensis and T. huanucoensis have been bioassayed and gave strong stimulation, but who knows what might have happened if the doses had been pushed higher!

[t st tantra]

it seems nigh on impossible 2 really know what trich sp u have anyway, so bioassay of aplant in your possession is the only real test . and of course this may be illegal in the country in which u r living!

t s t .

[eccles]

thanks for your additions Wira. I am very interested in cacti that apparently do give psychoactive but not mescaline-like effects!

The ones that you speak of as being bio-assyed, did the sources that you heard this from mention whether it was used in pachanoi type quantities (say 1-1.5kg wet)?

On a completely different note, quite a few months ago I went on a trip to the botanical gardens in sydney... when I was wandering around in the cactus and succulent garden (this is BEFORE I decided to stroke the incredible looking redish fruit of a prickly pear ...) I was totally entranced by a particular plant... it was a succulent and it had the most INCREDIBLE purple flowers. I sat in front of it for AGES, I was *so* drawn to it. well, the next time I went to a cactus nursery to buy some more baby cacti I discovered these plants in pots and they were the ones I had seen at the gardens! so I bought one, and took it home and planted it near my cacti. A few nights back I was flicking through my Trouts Notes and in the succulents section I suddenly came across a picture of this very plant!!! It is called Delosperma cooperi and it turns out that it contains DMT and 5-Meo-DMT (as TLC'ed by Johnny Appleseed from memory). So that was a pretty amazing discovery

Another off topic, but very interesting thing, is that a couple of texan (?) Acacias apparently contain various amphetamines and phenethylamines. This is incredibly interesting if it is true, simply because most of them had never been encountered in nature before. Yet there does not seem to have been any further attempts at testing done! (I remember that there was a question regarding this on the 'Ask Dr Shulgin' site - but the answer was not really any help as far as extra info went)...

This really is a very exciting area of research and experimentation that we are involved in. And whilst bio-assaying is very important, there is a LOT of analytical chemistry that still needs to be done.

[This message has been edited by eccles (edited 09 February 2002).]

[Guest wira]

There have been plenty of discussions about those two Acacias in other threads; though I don't know if they got lost in the crashes not too far back.

The people who bioassayed those cacti usually discussed them in comparison to the strength of 'average' pachanoi, but without saying how much they used. All were in the same comparable range. However from a lot of people I've chatted with it seems not many use 1-1.5kg [wet weight] of pachanoi per pop, anyway. Most people I've encountered have trouble consuming that much and usually don't have very strong trips. I do agree though that it is a good range to work with, with moderately potent material.

I guess we should tentatively add T. cordobensis to that list based on claimed successful bioassays, if the i.d. of the plants in Australia is indeed accurate.

[theobromos]

I still think those acacias were growing on a forgotten drugs stash.

[t st tantra]

it shouldnt be a problem consuming enough 4 quite strong effects.using only the 'green' part,throw the 'white' away,18 inches starting material.cover with water ,low boil 30mins,blend,reboil 30mins,strain.add more water 2 green pulp & repeat process.combine 2 strained[use t-towel etc] liquids and reduce to 500mls approx,place in jar in frig.next day decant liquid from jar leaving solids behind.this can be repeated until hardly any more solids are settling.now the liquid can be reduced to one cup or less,sipped over 30mins most would be able to consume a large enough dose 2 satisfy.moderate dose for 2 people,strong dose for one.this information is supplied 4 educational & discussional purposes only.using herbs may be illegal,and may lead 2 prison.

t s t .