kanna prep,my method

[t st tantra]

no one seems to be doing much in this area of freely available active plants,maybe a preparation method is lacking?

my method,use any parts of the plant,wash and dry if dirty,put on tray and pound completely,remove as many fibres as possible,dry in the sun,grind as fine as possible.

t s t .

[waterdragon]

...and consume how? and in what quantity? i'm interested in this now because of the rampant growth i'm experiencing and the pile of rooted cuttings that's stacking up. i was thinking to add it to smoking mixes to enhance their qualities. my method btw is to cut leaves and stems off, squeeze/bruise and allow to dry slowly in a bag in the hothouse.

[Guest reville]

When mine gets big enough i'd like to try picking the whole plant and twisting it like rope as it dries slowly so it ferments nicely and cures.

Then put to in the blender when full dry and reduce to a powder which could be gel-capped or smoked.

You could save the chaff for extraction experiments at a later date.

WD is yours in a greenhouse?

[t st tantra]

i add a couple of generous pinches per person to a smoking mix,try in a social setting if possible!

internet reports and my experiments,suggest fermentation may not be neccessary,and may have been part of a vendor misinformation hype.

t s t .

[Torsten]

tantra - what do you do to get rid of the oxalic acid?? the sun surely isn't enough to break this up entirely.....

[Torsten]

just saw your last comment.....

fermentation is NOT a vendor hype. if you intend to sort or eat the stuff then fermantation is a smart thing to do unless you want to poison yourself with oxalic acid. For smoking it may not be quite as dramatic as much of the oxalic would decarboxylate at those temps. Still much of it would simply vaporise and get into your lungs -- not the best place for a neurotoxin.

Fermntation may not be required, but SOME treatment definitely is a good idea. As oxalic acid vaporises at about 150 deg C, I figure the easiest method would be to heat the oven to that temp and leave the dry stuff in there for half an hour. This is similar to that other traditional method which is rarely discussed..... make a fire on sand, mix coals with the sand and let extinguish then stick whole branches of the stuff into the sand and leave buried for a couple of hours. The heat drives the oxalic acid into the sand and also drives off the water, leaving a crisp and ready to smoke product. getting the temp right would be a matter of experience and frequent losses, which can be avoided by the oven adaption.

Please folks.... DO NOT eat, smoke, snort or otherwise insert this stuff without getting rid of the oxalic acid.

[Guest reville]

A fair bit of info but i thought i'd cut and paste not just link so its more visible

read the rest here - http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/articl.../sceletium.html

5. Field studies and pharmacological investigations

In view of the somewhat contradictory information about Sceletium and 'kougoed', one of

the authors undertook a field trip to Namaqualand where plants are collected and prepared

using traditional methods, for commercial resale. In keeping with literature observations,

the plant material is crushed between stones following harvest and allowed to remain in

closed containers for several days to 'ferment'. An informant reported that historically, a

skin or canvas bag was used as a fermentation vessel, but that these have been replaced

by plastic bags. The informant detailed his technique:

'Leave the bag of crushed 'kougoed' in the sun to get warm; its not necessary to put it (the

bag) in the shade, it gets shade at night, and the sun doesn't harm it. The plant is left to

sweat. After 2-3 days the bag is opened, the 'kougoed' is mixed around, and then the bag

is tightly closed again. On the 8th day after the crushing, the bag is opened and the

'kougoed' is spread out to dry in the sun, as when you dry raisins. You leave it out until it

is dry. If you don't do the whole thing, the plant won't have power. If you eat the fresh plant

nothing will happen - it doesn't have power. I learned to prepare it from my father'.

The finished product is stringy, light brown and unattractive in appearance. The informant

noted that the season of collection of plants was important; plants collected too early

would posses less psychoactivity.

A second informant described an alternative preparation technique, employed when the

user seeks to rapidly prepare 'kougoed'. A small fire is made over sand, and when it dies

down, the ashes are scraped aside, and a hollow made in the sand. A freshly picked,

whole Sceletium plant is placed in this excavation, and covered with hot sand. An hour

later the baked plant product is recovered, reputedly with acquired properties similar to the

conventionally prepared material. Lewis-Williams (1981) describes a similar method for

preparing eland fat among the San, the only difference being that it was left to cook

overnight. In the Coloured community, to this day, 'ou vet' (old fat) is a colloquial

expression for dagga (Cannabis sativa).

On one occasion two of the authors took 2g of conventionally-prepared 'kougoed' by mouth

with a small quantity of alcohol, and held the material in the mouth for 10 min. Some of the

product was swallowed with saliva during this period. No major discomfort was

encountered and after about 30 min both subjects felt a 'tranquil mellowness'. There was

no impairment of motor function, and no visual hallucinations were experienced. On a

separate occasion, 2 weeks later, the subjects took 1g of material prepared by another of

the coauthors. This material induced the same effects as previously, but appeared to be

slightly stronger. This second sample, however, differed from the first in several respects:

the preparation included the root, and was prepared in a different season from plants of

different origin. When the subjects further attempted to ingest unfermented plant material

which had been freeze-dried, by mouth, the acidity was most objectionable and the

exercise was discontinued. The discomfort was not unlike that of placing a crystal of

oxalic acid under tile tongue; the pH of aqueous extracts of freeze-dried material was later

determined to be between 5 and 5.5.

An analysis of this material using the technique of Sutikno et al. (1987) indicated levels of

3.6-5.1% oxalate. This is higher than the levels of 1.9% reported for elephant grass by

those authors, but falls within the median range for oxalates in crop plants reported by

Libert and Franceschi (1987). Our observation, and reports by others of oxalates in

Sceletium (Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk, 1962; Kellermah et al., 1988) have led us to the

view that perhaps the physical crushing of the plant and the fermentation process may, in

some way, ameliorate the potentially harmful effects of oxalic acid. Free oxalic acid is

likely to complex with cell wall-associated calcium salts and precipitate as calcium

oxalate when plant material is crushed.

Hanson et al. (1989) have suggested that a low bioavailability of oxalates in plant tissues

may be a function of high ratios of minerals such as calcium. and magnesium to oxalate.

Oxalates are degraded by microbial populations in the gastrointestinal tract of humans,

ruminants and non-ruminant herbivores (Daniel et al., 1987). There is evidence that

adaptive changes in microbial microflora may reduce oxalate absorbtion and toxicity

(Argenzio et al., 1988). Allison et al. (1985) have proposed that these anaerobes be named

Oxalobacter formigenes and it has been suggested that soils and lake sediments may

serve as an inoculum. for oxalate degrading organisms in the digestive tract of animals

(Smith et al., 1985). We would like to suggest that the crushing process, prior to

anaerobic fermentation would introduce oxalate-degrading microbes into the skin or plastic

bag and so ameliorate the potential toxic effects of oxalic acid. The use of

Mesembryanthemaceae to initiate fermentation for alcohol or breadmaking is well

documented (Juritz, 1906; Watt and Breyer-Brandwift, 1962), so that the microbiology of

'fermentation' in 'kougoed' is likely to be quite complex.

The second preparatory method involving burying plant material in hot sand may also have

a scientific basis. Oxalic acid is a simple dicarboxylic acid, and considerable sublimation

is likely to occur at temperatures above its melting point of 101-102'C; on the other hand,

mesembrine only boils between 186-190'C (Merck Index).

Hence the use of this simple physical technique may achieve the same result as the more

traditional 'fermentation' process by removing oxalates, and drying the material while

retaining alkaloids.

Additional information on the effect of 'kougoed' has been documented from a dozen

individuals who self-experimented with the traditionally prepared material, and provided oral

anecdotes of these experiences. Most users found that the 'kougoed' induced a marked

anxiolytic effect. One informant used approximately 5 ml of powdered 'kougoed' orally

before giving a lecture that he was anxious about. He reported feeling relaxed throughout

the lecture, with no cognitive impairment. Many users felt that 'kougoed', in addition to

alcohol or on its own, enhanced social intercourse at parties and functions. Users felt

considerably less inhibited and self-conscious, and more open than usual in conversation

with strangers. One user claimed that she felt that 'kougoed' was a 'truth drug'.

Of 'kougoed', some felt that there was a synergistic effect with alcohol, and with smoked

'dagga' (Cannabis sativa). One experimenter, a poly-substance abuser, used 'kougoed' in

addition to alcohol (whisky) and smoked 'dagga'. He experienced a traumatic flashback to

a violent event he had participated in during a regional armed conflict. Another

experimenter, who on two separate occasions smoked 'dagga' after chewing 'kougoed',

reported seeing distinct visions of the Sceletium flower and was able to accurately

describe its form and colour, without ever having seen a specimen of it. The chewing of

'kougoed' was reported to greatly enhance the psychoactivity of an inferior grade of

Cannabis smoked shortly thereafter (see also 4, above, Paterson's commentary on

synergism).

A poly-substance abuser addicted to nicotine and a frequent abuser of alcohol and 'dagga',

reported that after using a single dose of 'kougoed', he had felt no craving for alcohol,

tobacco or 'dagga' for 4 days.

Some reported euphoria as well as a feeling of meditative tranquillity. Several users felt

that the relaxation induced by 'kougoed' enabled one to focus on inner thoughts and

feelings, if one wished, or to co ncentrate on the beauty of nature.

Some informants reported heightened sensation of skin to fine touch, as well as sexual

arousal. A senior traditional African healer, not previously exposed to 'kougoed', tried it and

announced that it 'relaxes the mind' and one's body feels 'light' the following day.

A white Namaqualand farmer, who has observed his shepherds and labourers using

'kougoed', points out that it is not possible to discern that they are intoxicated with it: they

walk normally and work as usual. The only sign that they have been using 'kougoed', he

says, is 'a sort of faraway look in their eyes'. Three first-time users reported experiencing

clouding of consciousness with doses that caused intoxication. A horticulturist reported

that he was once stung by a bee while on a fieldtrip. He chewed on some 'kougoed' (for

the first time) in the hope that it would alleviate the pain. The pain subsided rapidly but no

intoxication was experienced.

Rood (1994) includes a number of anecdotes on Sceletium anatomicum. A Mr. P. van

Breda of Worcester reported that if enough is eaten, it anaesthetizes the lower jaw

sufficiently to enable a tooth to be extracted painlessly. Mrs. Helena Marincowitz of Prins

Albert reported that San mothers used to simply chew the root and spit the juice into the

mouth of an infant, who would then sleep soundly for a few hours. Mrs. Lettie van Niekerk

of Karnieskroon reported that it is an excellent carminative for stomach ailments and

winds. Mr. J.H. Cornelissen stated that Blacks from Queenstown and Khoisan from

Namaqualand use an infusion of the leaves of Sceletium tortuosum to relieve pain and

alleviate hunger.

[waterdragon]

yes rev, my sceletium is in the hothouse. i've been training my original cutting(thanks ED) into a standard just to amuse myself, and taking branches as they become long enough for cuttings ie 1 to 2 inches. since collecting my original stock i've since been sent other scels (not eds strain) and i've got some seeds too that i've been meaning to sprout. been reading on other boards about the difficulties peeps are having in sprouting seeds, hardly worth the bother when it's so easy to ship and strike cuttings.

[t st tantra]

thanx for the reminder of the oxalic acid issue,i'd totally forgoten about it after smoking about 5 different species prepared using the above method,including a couple times a day for 2 weeks.i've shared it with others too,and never any adverse effects.

maybe we were lucky we only smoked it?

maybe the amount used is so small as to not be a problem?

theres quite a few other species listed as being active in that link from rev!

have a look at the yahoo sceletium group too!

i've begun preparation of my favorite annalog plant using this fermentation method,results in about 2 weeks.

t s t .

[t st tantra]

tried the fermentation method twice now,maybe i'll try smoking it if the smell goes away.seems to have rotted to slime[almost],no signs of fermentation,or the mentholishness of the real kanna i tried.

must be missing something,possibly the water content of my plants was too high,there was quite a bit loose in the bag.i sealed the bag,maybe it needed air?

any ideas?

t s t .

[t st tantra]

mr dunkel i see on another post you have tried chewing your kanna,could we have details pls,including any prep?

t s t .

[planthelper]

with two things i dont agree:

its not easy to ship but yes very possible,

and i doubt its good to leave the sludge for

so long in the fermenter till its color changes to brown. (loss of goodies?)

one more thing once you reach the drying

out phase, transvere it onto a dish where you

can scrape it of- this stuff gets soo sticky

at certain stages.

im looking for seeds, swape you catha 3 breeds avail. or even viridis...

of 14 seeds only 2 germinated but excatly

those i thought that would do it whilst inspecting. one took 2 weeks other one 3.

no bottom heat was used, just now summer

and out of direct sunlight.

[Ed Dunkel]

Originally posted by t st tantra:

mr dunkel i see on another post you have tried chewing your kanna,could we have details pls,including any prep?

t s t .

After a talk with another guy who said it had a noticable activity when eaten fresh (6-8 leaves). I ate a stem section with 4 pairs of leaves and chewed (while keeping in the mouth) and swallowed after ~5 minutes.

A warm, energetic feeling came over me quite suddenly (8 minutes after the initial chewing) although it had a subtlety to it. Not unlike caffeine but without the sharpness to it. Quite a social energy, wanting to talk and enjoy peoples company. It lasted only 1-2 hours.

My effect wasn't as stong as reported to me by this other guy, maybe I respond differently to increased serotonin levels (assuming it is a natural serotonin re-uptake inhibitor)

The next day the same amount resulted in a lesser effect.

A twisted "rope" of sceletium has been left to ferment/dry and shall be tried out in the future. I feel more needs to be taken but caution is adviced if this plant contains levels of oxalic acid (over 200 ppm) higher than that found in regular fruit and vegies (ie starfruit, poppy seeds, rhubarb, peppers)

E D