Free Lobelia cardinalis seed

[Alchemica]

I've been interested in this Lobelia as a potentially superior (?) alternative plant to L. inflata.

 

 

'The Penobscot people smoked the dried leaves as a substitute for tobacco. It may also have been chewed'.

 

Lobinaline caused a significant, dose-dependent increase in dopamine release and preclinical and clinical data exist that support nAChR-based ligands as promising therapeutic agents for the treatment of depression, alcohol and drug dependence. The alkaloid has been proposed as a treatment for Parkinson's and psychostimulant abuse [1].

 

Lobinaline appears to be distinct from nicotine and lobeline in terms of its selectivity and functional effects at nAchRs and is a DAT inhibitor. Compared to other plant metabolites, such as nicotine and lobeline, lobinaline is relatively non-selective with respect to α4β2- and α7-nAchRs

 

Lobinaline displays appropriate pharmacokinetics and low mammalian toxicity in mice relative to lobeline, the most widely studied Lobelia alkaloid.

 

Haven't bioassayed myself but if anyone wants to grow it (say first 3 replies in this thread and PMs) let me know. Seed was collected from the plant pictured.

No TAS/WA sorry. 

 

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27105955/

Edited March 31, 2021 by Alchemica

[Paradoxical]

Hi Alchemia, 

I'd love to give growing this a try! 

Will PM

Thanks, P

[Xperiment]

I'd love to try growing this, would be much appreciated

[Alchemica]

Thanks for the interest, have three people!

[mr b.caapi]

No seed to W.A ?    I can understand your stance on sending live plant material to W.A or TAS, but no seed is a bit extreme ? Is it a weed in these states ?

[Alchemica]

-just trying my best to be legit without even knowing what I have to technically be legit about... if it's not an issue I still have a few seed pods on their way and can plonk them to where permissible. From what I've heard TAS is pretty strict on even seed

[mr b.caapi]

Yeh fair call. Nothing wrong with being too careful .Seeds are usually ok though. Unless banned or listed as a weed 

 

edit:  and upon further research it turns out that you are doing the right thing as these plants are in fact listed as potential invasive species in W.A 

Edited March 31, 2021 by mr b.caapi

[Alchemica]

I've got quite a few of these going from seed, small seedlings now, but if anyone missed out (note: state restrictions still apply) and has a SERIOUS actual interest in the plant let me know and I'll try and gift you a small plant once they're a bit bigger, otherwise they get donated to the dark-side of aesthetic flower appreciating grandmas

 

Traditional use: Root infusion for worms, rheumatism; leaf infusion for colds, fever; root poultice for sores

 

Constituents [1]:

 

Aerial parts: alkaloid lobinaline
Hairy root culture: diacetylene triol lobetyol + glucosides lobetyolin and lobetyolinin
Leaves: anthocyanin cyanidin-3-O-[6-O-(4-O-E-p-coumaroyl-O-α-rhamnopyranosyl)-βglucopyrano]-5-O-β-glucopyranoside

 

 

See more: https://www.cargocultcafe.com/tag/plant-identification-lobelia-cardinalis/

 

Some initial bioassays [2]:

 

Positive

"when it comes to stimulation, cardinalis is more like nicotine.  Seems to give stimulant effects similar to mild nicotine. Seems to have mild aphrodisiac properties.  Slight mood lift present it also seems to have anti depressant properties.

 

...the anti-depressant effects cannot be compared to anything - because you just feel better, it's not anything like pharmaceutical anti-depressants. 

 

...it's painkilling potential is huge. powerful muscle relaxant and really potent painkiller..."

 

Less positive:

"L. inflata is far more effective than L. cardinalis and L. siphilitica in my opinion."

 

[1] http://dx.doi.org/10.3390/medicines5040121
[2] https://drugs-forum.com/threads/lobelia-cardinalis.213716/

Edited June 19, 2021 by Alchemica

[Young JD]

I'll take some seeds if you still got some

[Alchemica]

Bumping this topic up, I have two small plants available free if someone super keen missed out, let them root up a bit more before sending, they'll die back over cool frosty periods but warmer states or someone with a greenhouse might do well with them this size. Once again, sorry, no WA/Tas. 

 

While there is history of traditional use [1] and herbalists suggest it may be a nervine, contemporary use of the plant remains very limited.

 

Lobinaline is devoid of the characteristic actions of lobeline and in mice, lobinaline is less toxic than lobeline (but did lower animals blood pressure) [2]. Toxicology suggests a large quantity ingested is toxic with symptoms reported as being "nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, salivation, exhaustion and weakness, dilation of pupils, convulsions, and coma" but some have used it in smaller quantities as a tea [3].

 

Lobinaline is an inhibitor of the dopamine transporter (DAT) in vitro and in vivo. It is more potent for inhibiting DAT (IC50 = 11.95 μM) vs lobeline (IC50 = 30-80 μM) [4]. In addition, lobinaline is a weak non-subtype selective partial agonist at nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs) and a good free radical scavenger. it is likely that the DAT inhibitory actions are "atypical" in not having abuse liability.

 

Early herbalists noted that a tincture induced the "disposition to sing" and preliminary bioassays by others have noted "...cardinalis is more like nicotine. Seems to give stimulant effects similar to mild nicotine. Seems to have mild aphrodisiac properties. Slight mood lift present it also seems to have anti-depressant properties" [5]

 

The N-oxide has potentially superior dopaminergic activity [6], that said at 25mg/kg it lacked abuse potential in the conditioned place paradigm model and "at the dose we administered does not seem to have a significant effect in the mesolimbic dopaminergic pathways and may not facilitate a role in treating drug abuse" [7]

[1] https://www.cargocultcafe.com/cardinal-flower/
[2] https://doi.org/10.1139/cjr38b-055
[3] https://eatwild.weebly.com/blog/cardinal-flower
[4] https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.fitote.2016.04.013
[5] https://drugs-forum.com/threads/lobelia-cardinalis.213716/
[6] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34648893/
[7] https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=medsci_etds

 

 

 

[fyzygy]

1 hour ago, Alchemica said:

"disposition to sing"

I wish!