Australia Day / Invasion Day

[rkundalini]

Hmmmmmmm....

http://www2b.abc.net.au/abcdiary/event.asp...e=All&PageRec=0

On the one hand I admire their attempt at working constructively at the reconciliation process...

On the other hand, I think Invasion Day is a completely insensitive time to be doing it, and involving the Australia Day Council, whose duty it is to encourage people to celebrate the anniversary of colonization seems completely inappropriate.

http://www.australiaday.com.au/sydney_city.html

 

quote:

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When the Gadigal people used their arts and lore to let the first Europeans know about their connection to the Harbour, it was an extension of goodwill that ensured the survival of the First Fleet and allowed us to settle here peacefully.

 

In the end, the ceremony is a celebration of the lives of both peoples and the sacred relationship that still endures them.

 

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What a bloody fantasy. You can't just erase 200 years of opression by fantasizing it away.

[waterdragon]

you mean there's people here who won't be waving the flag? obviously terrorists.

[The Dude]

bloody unaustralian is what it is, i suppose you won't be eating lamb either, - go back to al qaeda.

he he he. Sorry for being a dick.

[nabraxas]

:D i thought it was funny dude

[tomtom]

the truth is you only get one life to live so..i'm sick of feeling guilty for the crap that happened all those years ago ..

if people who need an apology for something that happened to their relatives by someone that i dont know well then .. :mad: .F Y :mad:

where does it stop ?????

if you go back in any countries history you see that at some point another race either conquered , blended or destroyed it ...

do you think that the current lifestyle you lead now in this country will remain just like this forever??? i doubt it ...

my parents are czech ...wogs that came here over 50 years ago ...back then austalia had a virtual non-euro population ...look at it now ...its always changing ...now we are heading asian ..my brother married an asian chick and his kids are ....AUSTRALIAN ! just like me .

i dont think there is any country on this planet that hasnt experienced some sort of invasion or change .i suppose my point is why do we need any special days to recoginse these events ?...i as many wogs have no attachment to the aboriginals or the british who colonised ...its just another wonderful public holiday to us ...

ps Austalia is the best place on this earth ..if a country had to be invaded and changed into something else well compared to other countries we have done the best .....good on ya austalia !

shit did i just rant away just then or what ? :D

[2b]

It's not until you go overseas that you realise how good we have it here.Maybe the Brits could have ago at the Romans for their invasion ? Exactly where do you draw the line ? :confused:

[rkundalini]

tomtom: I can relate to being sick of feeling guilty. The thing is, I'm not saying we should be feeling guilty for what happened in the past. We should be guilty for what is happening in the present! Things are still very fucked up for many aboriginal people! It has continued unabated since colonization in 1788. It is a national disgrace that not enough is being done to help them. If anything I sometimes wonder whether John Howard deliberately refused to apologize so as to draw attention towards that controversy and away from the fact that the oppression of aborigines is not just a thing of the past.

2benubee : I dunno, I just got back from living overseas for 4 years. I did indeed come to the realization that there are some things about Australia that I miss, that aren't possible elsewhere, or at least, not in many places. But on getting back here I'm reminded of how fucked up many things are also. The main things I missed were the bush and natural environment, and (related) living space -- a backyard, a relatively deserted nearby park, etc. (I lived in Amsterdam, extreme population density). On getting back I remembered, yeah that's right, Europeans have completely fucked our natural environment and I have to drive for hours to find a tiny patch that even remotely resembles a shadow of its former self. And likewise, full of hope to buy a house and a backyard for my baby daughter to play in and my plants to grow in, I found that the Great Australian Dream is no more, that even on an above average income I am miiillles away from being able to even get a mortgage for a house & land in the greater Sydney area. And even if I did I'd be locked in to working full time for 30 years and being an absentee parent. It's just fucked up, all due to the inflation of land prices, driven by personal greed of property speculators.

Plus there's the issue of the aboriginal people. Your analogy is imperfect. If the anglo saxons were still largely alienated from the dominant culture, lived in despair, unable to go back to their traditional lifestyles and yet unable to find a place for themselves in the roman lifestyle, had a life expectancy of 20 years less than the romans, etc etc etc, then it would be accurate.

People overseas know that Australian aborigines still have it tough, why do Australians themselves seem blind to this fact? When I lived in the Netherlands and told people I was from Australia, their main reactions apart from oh I have been / would love to go there, are, first of all concern or even revulsion on the treatment of aborigines (and asylum seekers), and secondly I also heard from two couples (one of which was a mixed Dutch/Aussie couple) that they were going to live in Australia but changed their minds because people there were narrow minded and bigoted... with which I could only agree ...

[rkundalini]

Oh by the way, on the issue of "where do you draw the line?"

Who here supports the Chinese occupation of Tibet?

Did you know that it began in the early 18th century? Ok, so the worst shit went down in the 1950s. Still, that is now 50 years ago. The worst time for the aborigines was arguably about 100 years ago and even 25 years ago the Stolen Generation was still underway. Wretched conditions persist for many aborigines right up to the present day.

So when will you draw the line on Tibet? After a certain period of time is up? Another 50 years or so? Or when the majority of indigenous Tibetans have been annihilated or displaced into remote settlements?

[ 20. January 2005, 10:11: Message edited by: rkundalini ]

[tomtom]

 

quote:

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The thing is, I'm not saying we should be feeling guilty for what happened in the past. We should be guilty for what is happening in the present!

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NO WAY ! :mad:

i have aboriginal friends who when asked about being oppressed they laugh and tell you its political bullshit ...

have you been out to cabrramatta lately ( no aboriginals there)

why should i worry or care about todays aboriginals .most dont give a stuff anyways ...

i think 2benubee is right when he says where do you draw the line ...

the native english were very oppressed by the romans all those years ago ..and thats a historical fact ! it was no italian festa for them ..lots of bloodshed , slavery etc ..

it will never end and maybe thats what makes us human beings and the idea of some utopian buddhist fairyland can never be , look at the displaced palestinians and the oppressor isreal , everyone knows that that palastine was recognised as a country by the UN 50 years ago ,so why the oppression ?

.

i think most of todays aussies feel bad about the past and they shouldnt.... nor should they feel guilty if aboriginals today that dont want to get on with life and just bitch about capt cook .

there will always be some wanker who stuffs it up for everyone black ,white ,yellow or pink .

as far as the ever decreasing bushland around sydney ..the Great Australian Dream which is it? the dream or lovely bushland ? you decide

[rkundalini]

So the fact that you know some aborigines that have comfortably assimilated into mainstream society proves that there are no problems?

There are huge problems still in rural aboriginal communities. This is a fact. Life expectancy is still 20 years less than whites. Many people are completely directionless, with alcoholism and petrol sniffing being widespread as a result.

It is not a matter of "not wanting to get on with it", it's a matter of not knowing how. They need help, not scorn.

[2b]

rkundalini:

 

quote:

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full of hope to buy a house and a backyard for my baby daughter to play in and my plants to grow in, I found that the Great Australian Dream is no more, that even on an above average income I am miiillles away from being able to even get a mortgage for a house & land in the greater Sydney area. And even if I did I'd be locked in to working full time for 30 years and being an absentee parent. It's just fucked up, all due to the inflation of land prices, driven by personal greed of property speculators.

 

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I hear ya' loud and clear , I work in a senior managment position and i even had to move away from the regional centre I work in to a town with a population of 500 just so we could by our first home , I've got a wife one baby daughter and a mortgage of $220.00 p/w. When i see the price of realestate in the city it makes me wonder how people ever get a break ? I have a friend in Sydney who is single and works as an exec and is on 70k approx , he rents a shitty flat for $270.00 p/w and is thinking of buying it , the flat next door to his just sold for 460k !!! It's a fucking 2 bedroom flat , not even a nice one. God knows who can afford to live in Sydney or even Melbourne for that sake but my advice is head out of town , it's just the same .Same radio/tv , same internet same cloths, same price for food (petrol sucks tho !)same thing just less crime and paranoia and a better environment to raise kids(more space , less cars , etc..)If you don't have to live in the city why would you ? At least you can get a break , maybe even make some $ and rejoin the city folk at a later date.200k goes a looong way out here

[tomtom]

you got me wrong the guys i know havent assimilated into mainstream society at all .they dont want to .they still hang out with their own kind .im only welcome because i new one of them as a kid , otherwise i probably be one of those token im sorta sorry whitey.

i could name you a few of sydneys suburbs where there are strangley a consentration of one ethnic group over another ...

ask your parent which nationality thet dislike ..

nothing wrong with it we all do it ..

..

im sure the facts you qoute are correct but i also know figures can be manipulated to show any statistic you want show

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i bet the life expectancy in the suburb of newtown sydney is lower than that of say the eastern suburbs where most of those rich doctors have their homes ...but i bet my life expectancy would be low if i decided to consume petrol or heavy duty drugs .

as far as they being directionless

im not scorning anyone who decideds to give up their slack attitude and make use of the many special "only for aboriginal initutives "the government has made for avaiable using our hard earned tax blood money.

good on em !

 

quote:

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There are huge problems still in rural aboriginal communities. This is a fact. Life expectancy is still 20 years less than whites. Many people are completely directionless, with alcoholism and petrol sniffing being widespread as a result.

 

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dosent this also apply to other kids out in the country ? being directionless isnt ethnic specific ...

most of the aboriginal adults in these communities dont sniff petrol and some have even pulled their fingers out and banned grog in their communities and started making money for themselves by workin..we didnt do that for them THEY did.

so no matter what we do for others unless they do it for themselves it will always be a handout that is belittling, degrading and probably would make you directionless waiting for the next handout .

Australia is the best country on this planet .

please dont forget to wear the sorta sorry pin (available at the john safran site) on

AUSTRALIA DAY !!!!

[tomtom]

:D hehehehe :D

couldnt help myself sorry

no offence to anyone i hope :

[The Dude]

rkundalini totally agree about the position of aborignals in australia.

Tomtom when you're not just disregarding their current plight you seem to accept it but remain apathetic about it. 'there will always be some wanker who stuffs it up for everyone black ,white ,yellow or pink .' Yeah and we're just bitching about this wanker (or the coalition of wankers really) instead of thinking 'well what can you do? -better not worry about it'

[The Dude]

Tomtom, i sorta take back what i said. after reading yer last post. What i mean is that we shouldn't feel guilty about what the stupid whiteys did before, but we should feel ashamed at the situation as it is now. And work to make it better (um.. im not really sure how, but for starters people need to stop being narrow minded stupid racist fucks pissed off that their tax money is going to *gasp* help people!)

-I love that John Safran vs God episode when they try to get an aboriginal family to move into a house built on their land. ahaha great!

[tomtom]

hehehehe

sorry everyone just couldnt help myself ...

el duderino

quote:

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(um.. im not really sure how, but for starters people need to stop being narrow minded stupid racist fucks pissed off that their tax money is going to *gasp* help people!)

 

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i did say that i dont mind my tax being spent to help ...my point is that WE ARE DOING SOMETHING !but if some decide grog and petrol sniffin is the way to go ...cool BUT thats not whitey's fault..

i hope i'm not a narrow minded stupid racist

i hate everyone equally ...

:D

come on you lot, you gotta laugh..... with all the tragedy around lately can we just learn that someone will always be in need and it wont have anything to do with colour... ...

i think australians showed their true colours just recently with the tsunami ...so we where happy to help them even though they like to blow up aussies in bali ...but NO el duderino we are slack slack slack .

come on aussie come on come on ...

[The Dude]

Didnt mean to call you narrow minded or racist TomTom. I was just thinking back to a conversation with this dudes mum -(she watches A Current Affair). And while I agree that it's important to have a good humour it is also important to acknowledge the issues and not disregard them.

I think its not really about money per se but bringing attention and help to the aboriginal community. It seems their status is what leads to their problems in the first place and the fact that many aussies are racists and treat them like shit. That feel that it's their own fault they sniff peddy and they can deal with it by dying sooner than we do. (I mean yeah really it is their choice, but what leads to this decision making?)

I think the low life expectancy is partly due to our vastly different 'western' high fat junkfood diet compared to their own and how they have adapted to that over the many thousands of years. And obviously alcoholism and peddy sniffing. I'm guessing their imune system is much weaker than that of europeans. -the common cold really fucked em up as i recall (could've been the native americans).

Above all i think an apology on behalf of us whiteys would be a very important symbolic step to reconcilliation. Bearing old grudges doesnt help the situation any.

It seems that we're all for helping foreigners when a tragic instantaneous event occurs, but when its a constant tragedy in our own backyard we dont really give a shit.

Above all issues of poverty, education and health need to be addressed or they'll keep resorting to cheap highs and keep destroying their brains. (It's good that some aboriginal leaders totally banned alcohol use in their comunities - altho i disagree with prohibition it was the right step)

And our attitude as a nation needs to change towards the original 'owners' of this land (though it was really more of a connection to it)

I can just remember stupid shit spurted out by fellow students and was suprised grown adults say the same shit. No suprise Howard keeps winning either.

-and dont get me started on the Asylum seeker issue! - really don't I'll go on for ages.

(please remember i have no views of my own just regurgitating leftie pinko propaganda)

[tomtom]

good one elduderino your regurgitating leftie pinko propaganda was expertly said !

i hope everyone realised my posts where SARTIRICAL... .

sorry to have hyjacked your post rkundalini .and thank you for even bringing it up .

australia day is important to most of us and we should think about the aboriginal plight on a more regular basis rather than just one day a year ..

ok i wilL now go back into being my placid non-comment self :cool:

AUSTRALIA THE BEST COUNTRY ON EARTH !!!!!!!!

[rkundalini]

I like the badge

[rkundalini]

oh and 2benubee, I hear ya loud and clear. I'm so sick of living in the city, and sick of hardly getting to see my baby daughter growing up. Moving to the country is definitely on the cards, there's just the small matter of finding a way to earn an income there that I could actually stand doing. (not too many astronomical institutes in snake valley...) . I'm trying to talk people into paying me for part-time telecommuting but it's not going down that well .

on the topic of prices, we were determined to have a (small) house + yard after 4 years in a flat in Amsterdam. The cheapest you can go pretty much is what we got, $300 pw out in the suburbs, which we are just managing to pay (things might get better after all the setup costs,fridges etc are done). On the other hand when I checked online how much mortgage I can get on 60k/year, it was like 290k, which will not buy a house+yard anywhere in greater sydney. crazy! I even saw an empty block of land for sale with high-tide boat access only, for like 400k... jesus!!! soon it will be a million for a scrunched up paper bag in the middle of the road>.

[ 21. January 2005, 10:51: Message edited by: rkundalini ]

[2b]

 

quote:

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please dont forget to wear the sorta sorry pin (available at the john safran site) on

 

AUSTRALIA DAY !!!!

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LOL ! Do you remeber the episode where he got some aboriginal guys to go up to one of those houses in inner city Melb with the signs out front saying something like :'this is land belonging to the traditional owners.......' and the guys were dressed in full ceremonial out fits went to the door, rang the bell :D and said well we've seen your sign and we think we'll take your place now if you don't mind !!! Dam funny episode that was.

[Andrew]

Hi rkundalini

I dont want to offend anyone but the reason my town is almost fucked is because city people keep moving here.The small town attitude is gone,you cant leave the house without locking everything up,you cant find a fucking car parking space(and you gotta lock your car),crime is escalating,(we dont have any cops),the surf is packed with wannabe,s,most of the old holiday houses are being sold for outrageuos prices then knocked down for some ugly castle to take its place,half of the young locals have had to move if they want to own a house.When I was a kid I could have bought a place for $50 000 to $60 000 now its $600 000 to over $1000 000.The house I rent is an old brick veneered fibro house with two bedrooms,I pay $220 a week,the property was valued at approx $700 000.

I know I sound like some fuckwit local but the town(world)I knew and loved is gone.

So yeah by all means,everyone leave the city,just leave the city attitude behind.

[mescalito]

It's happening 500ks inland to Andy

I used to leve my keys in the car and my change on the bar.If I did that today I'd be walking home broke.

[ 22. January 2005, 15:17: Message edited by: Maca ]

[Andrew]

Gidday mesc,I know its happening everywhere,I was just in a bad mood this morning,had enough of the school holidays maybe.I usually try to keep it to myself.

On another note you appear to have been reborn. What promted you to change?

[RubyTuesday]

I myself will be ignoring Australia Day and that guy can shove his lamb up his arse. Hate this time of year with a passion.