'MDMA-induced fatal heart rhythms??'

[spiders]

is there actually any evidence that MDMA injestion can cause fatal heart rhythm disturbences? I was watching the tellie the other day and this guy just dropped dead from a heart ayrthimia or what ever its called, and the coroner ruled that it was caused by his past use of amphetamines.

I though there were about four cases where people - while actually on mdma - had died from heart rhythm disturbences. Isnt it a cop-out to assume that it was caused by a drug that the person may not have consumed for seven years?

[Torsten]

I know that amphetamines can cause fatal arhythmias in people who have heart problems. I don't think it can do it in people with healthy hearts - but I might be wrong.

Whether or not MDMA belong to these amphetamines is a different question though. It may just apply to amphetamine and methamphetamine.

[cookie-monster]

Almost certainly this person had a cardiomyopathy. This causes the heart to enlarge with weak tissue. This enlarged tissue poorly conducts nerve signals and this leads to arrythmias. Why these things happen in young people is still the subject of on going research but there is a strong genetic link. The same condition is what we see in old or obese people with enlarged hearts. Heavy abuse of any adenergic stimulant can also cause this condition but I think its about 25% of all sufferers are young, usually male and the cause is unknown.

[occidentalis]

My housemate has cardiomyopathy and regularly suffers mild heart attacks, although watching him double over in pain every now and then it doesn't seem so mild. He enjoys MDMA and claims it actually improves his heart. I'm not sure if he means the frequency or intensity of the attacks or something else.

[spiders]

I know someone who died recently from a fatal arrythmias after suffering cardiomyopathy for some time.

But, the interesting thing that this news story was suggesting was that autopsy could find no sign of heart enlargement or sign of myopathy. There was no sign of artery calcification. From what the report was suggesting, this guy had a healthy heart, abused speed for years, and they ruled that he died from arrythmias induced by past heavy speed use.

[cookie-monster]

Without reading the article, better yet the autopsy report, this just doesn't make sence. Arythmias that occur in a health heart are usually congenital in origin and resulting in defects in the conductivity of the heart tissue or the sinus node. Arrythmias kill by one of 2 methods. Most commonly they result in a atrium not contracting with the rest of the heart for a short period of time. This allows a clot to form in the atrium and when the tissue does become conductive again the clot gets pumped through the heart and then the clot lodges elsewhere in the body (heart,lung) and the patient altimately dies of a pulmonary embolism or stroke. In the other cases the arrythmia effects too much of the heart and the patient dies through hypoxia. The pathology of speed induced heart failure involves myopathy, which leads to a large weak heart.

I suspect that you read this in some form of mainstream journalism and not a journal article. Reporters can dig a story out of anything. The real problem with this story is the claim that the heart was healthy. At autopsy the pathologist presented with heart failure for no apparent reason has a very difficult job. Their only clue to the heart being the organ that shut down are the specific enzymes detected in the blood. In the absence of toxins the pathologist then has to return a finding of death due to heart failure, which was caused by an unknown pathology. This leaves the case being refered to the coroner. The pathologist prepares a report for the coroner and includes the possible reasons for this heart failure. If the patients history is known to include stimulant abuse he will certainly mention this and the likely pathological events that could have led to this abuse being the cause. The pathologist would never find that amphetamine abuse was the definate cause without seeing the myopathy. The coroner would have mentioned the possibility of drug abuse being a factor but without the evidence it would not form part of the official cause of death.

I would bet the official cause of death is heart failure due to an unknown cause. The reporters have done their usual job of blending facts with theories in order to generate a story.

[Agamemnon]

 

quote:

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I know that amphetamines can cause fatal arhythmias in people who have heart problems.

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Yeah Elvis Presley's a classic example ...didn't he "check out" on the toilet?

[ 15. January 2005, 21:50: Message edited by: Agamemnon ]

[cookie-monster]

Apparently it is very common to check out via heart attack on the toilet. Our blood pressure peaks in the mornings after waking and that combined with the 'strain' of hanging a turd leads to the ticker failing. Anyway thats what a cardiologist said in a lecture I was in.

[spiders]

thanks for that info - its good to know that it is most likely trumped up bullshit rather than fact.