Geographical map of Trichocereus sp. and what not - if there aint one we should make it

[sagiXsagi]

Lots of interesting debates have occured in this forum among others about Trichocereus taxonomy, and especially  pachanoi & peruvianus "issue".  

 

I think a geographical map of known natural occurences of the genus, would be a great visual aid in getting to think about the species genealogy, and in any case, it would add , a rich in potential , new light in any present and future conversations. 

 

I have been reading a couple Ephedra taxonomy recently, and I saw a couple stuff about how geographical issues played a major part in the identification and/or definition of species... 

 

Maybe I am preaching to the converted here, as there might be such a map, but I am sure that extensive researchers like Smith &  Trout would have tons of relative material in here, if we were to make such map.. just saying... 

 

so in all intentions if there's some map, we might validate & enhance it, or if there isnt , it shouldn't be so difficult to make a map either in some google maps thing , or rough and plain oldskool...  I couldn't make it myself, but I thought I could share this, and maybe we could make a map of ours collectively... 

 

PS: This thread is about every kind of taxonomic philosophy interpretation and the discussion about taxonomy itself.  If any older members think I am beating a dead horse or something, feel free to let me know... 

[Trevyn]

This would be great in Google Maps with pictures of confirmed collections linked to locations.  You have the best posts.  

[modern.shaman]

I'm pretty sure that Trout (or another prominent member) has a list of locations with map but wasn't released publicly to preserve them from poachers and thieves. Not sure where it was posted but whoever it was did offer respected members the information via PM. There was a post a few years back on here where someone was traveling there and wanted locations (slice I think?) and they were provided info via PM.

 

If this were public knowledge people would go there and just harvest the entire plant and after a year or so it would be completely gone similar to other new cacti found with locations revealed.

[sagiXsagi]

modern.shaman>  you have a point, but hey I was not talking GPS locations , a detailed map with strain/varieties, especially "wanted" varieties. No, not that kind of thing. I was talking about a more general map that shows the occurences of taquimbalensis and bridgesii in bolivia, pachanoi and peruvianus in Peru and wherever else it might occur, chilensis and pasacana in Chile and  terscheckii and pasacana in argentina etc Of course we could use those community maps to indicate different populations locations, not as dots but as areas in which populations exist. 

 

These are vast countries and I would like a small map that showed the relative distances between each distinct species and maybe some intermediates that might shed some light in what the relationships might be or might once were betweeen these species. I would be a great visual aid to many people starting but also to many of us, to know and remember which countries these species are all coming... So my reason for wanting this map would be for taxonomic and theoretical reason and as data to think about in regards with the inter-relationship of these species, to look the map and theorise this or that. 

 

As a safety measure, adding to the fact that the map I have in mind would be pretty small (a jpg of α topographical map of southern america, maybe inside a political map, no need for it to be zoomable as in a google maps project)  the dots that indicate known localities of interesting vars might be deliberately be misplaced as dots, but not so much so as to prevent the relative taxonomic discussion to occur, only prevent people from finding the location. Just saying, even though what you are suggesting might happen, I am sure is easier said than done.

 

For example, starting from a nice cactus book I have, i am reading about T.pasacana : "northern argentina, southern bolivia, chile"   

 

so, we could indicate this , I made a quick example of what I am suggesting to show you its not some big secret revealed. But yeah, point taken.

 

 

 

 

^^ note, I made the area however i liked - of course it's more interesting if its also a topographical map.. There we could perhaps see and theorise among other things, how these species seem to be linked with the Andes 

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by sagiXsagi

[Trevyn]

I agree.  Not a treasure map to an exact location of an exact plant but a region with samples of what forms of T. Peruvianus appear here to here.  There are stabilized swarms of hybrids and what have you, that as of yet, we haven't quite gotten a handle on.  Seeing the whole thing in one CSI type picture might help us make better sense on where everything came from and maybe even better identify instances of T. Pach migrating through human trade.  The possibilities seem endless.  

[godless]

if anyone wants to pm me a map or a list of coordinates I would be extremely grateful, or even just a vague list of 'areas' as you've shown in your example sagi. I was planning on just winging it, I wont be cutting much if anything at all, at most I might try n bring back one tiny cutting 10cm or so.

 

I agree, my first instinct when I saw this thread was danger danger poachers

[TheExplorer]

M S Smith started one years ago based on location descriptions in Backebergs Cactus Lexicon; could be a good starting point to start working on a google maps version.

 

 

[sagiXsagi]

awesome, I might make something