To degraft or not to degraft? That is the question.

[Psyentist]

Hey guys,

Just after some people's opinion here.

I'm in two minds about whether I should degraft this loph?..

I figure if I'm going to do it this season I should do it nowish.

I much prefer the own roots look and the stock is looking a bit thirsty and crusty.

The scion doesn't seem to be growing much but it does look healthy and has been putting out a lot of flowers.

So what do you think? Degraft it or let it go for another season?

Cheers!

[zelly]

just my opinion but you've screwed the pooch by letting the scion get as big as it has if you ever expect to degraft. a scion that size should have a massive tuberous root (water storage system)

once degrafted, the rooting medium you put it in must be extremely fast draining, else you can expect any new roots to become water logged & rot.

If you prefer the own roots look, replant the root stock in a taller container such that the base of the scion is level with or just below the rim and then either add soil around the exposed rootstock shaft or I like to add largish crushed rock. The soil beneath the rock needs to breath & dry out between waterings so use larger sized rocks. If done right, the scion will look like its on its own roots & its a win-win for both you & the plant.

Why isnt the scion growing much? Well, consider its reached its maximum size & its not gonna get any bigger, although it could very well start pupping.

[Psyentist]

Thanks for the advice mate,

I always assumed that you should leave a scion to get as big as possible before degrafting, the theory being that the bigger the scion the more energy it would have available to push out some new roots.

I've had a better success rate rooting loph degrafts above 5cm diameter than below. My method being to have a standard loph mix covered with a 2cm layer of course sand, keeping the base of the plant relatively dry and causing it to send out roots searching for the damper soil below. But what you say about the water storage makes a lot of sense.

What do you think about cutting the stock, say an inch below the scion, and rooting that? The stock has seen better days, I don't think it's got much life left in it and I feel that burying that much stock is just asking for rot. Or if using crushed rock, when the stock finally does give up the scion will have quite a tough time trying to send out roots to find the soil, as opposed to an inch or so. I don't have that much experience though so I'm not real sure.

Hmmm, decisions decisions...

[zelly]

my philosophy in matters such as this is if its not broke, why keep trying to fix it?

consider for all intents & purpose as the rootstock is now the main root of your scion so it doesnt really matter if you wrap the exposed stalk in tinfoil, or of you bury it in soil up to the base of the scion, or if you surround it with rocks.

imho cutting the rootstock 1" below the scion & rooting that is a complete waste of time when you could just as easily bury the whole rootstock, stem and all. If you're concerned about stem rot, bottom water the whole shebang with just enuf water to keep the lower root ball watered & keep the upper area completely dry til it too roots out.

[Psyentist]

Ahhhh, words of wisdom.

Thanks for clarifying mate, seems so obvious when you put it like that.

I think I'll just leave him be for now. Like you said, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Cheers.

[sagiXsagi]

I am not sure about all vars but I have found lophophoras root surprisingly easy when grafted off a pump and actively growing graft, as long its warm and all... But most of what I have rooted was caespitosa, but not all...

so when you try to to it, better be in the middle of the growing season.

and yeah with such a huge head, when it roots, watering must be very sparse and medium freedraining, like zelly said.. or better, dont water at all if you dont make sure it has enough roots.. let its size work for you...

its doable but I havent done it in such a big head.. what is it, 10 cm wide?

but burrying the whole stock is also and option, you can use stones to fill the stock space to prevent its rot..

this propably the best less fussy option, I've done it with an asterias graft on selini and it works wonders

Edited January 7, 2016 by sagiXsagi

[sagiXsagi]

well didn't know where to put it, I will drop these here

on the left , grafts on echinopsis (not the multihead one) and on pachanoi on the right

Edited January 7, 2016 by sagiXsagi

[coolname]

If you decide to degraft it just be very wary of rot. Pretty much the only degraft I have had rot on me was my very first loph graft which was fully mature like yours. It went from being 100% healthy to mush in about 24 hours

[wert]

my two cents. reluctantly. .. cut the stock and regraft to a super huge stock.

then when you see the results tell everyone it was WERTs idea!

[Psyentist]

Cheers Sagi,

It's not quite that big, only about 8cm across. I degrafted one a few months ago that was only a little smaller than this which seems to have been successful, time will tell I suppose. But I thought I'd leave this guy as a seed producer. Like I said in the first post, I was in two minds about whether to degraft this one. I was mainly worried about the stock failing. But I think I'll leave it now, maybe bury the stock in course sand if I want the own roots look. I'll see how the other one I degrafted goes and rethink the situation next season if all is well. Nice plants by the way! I really love the look of that one on the pachanoi!

Shit coolname, that must have been devastating. Especially being your first loph graft! And so quickly as well! Most degrafts I've had die have sat there for well over a year with no roots before turning black. Was it not well calloused?

And wert, hmmmm. That idea's so crazy it might just work! I've a picture in my mind involving a terscheckii and the biggest loph the world has ever seen! Pure fantasy realm stuff.

[wert]

sure it works. believe me.

not showing photos. wanted to keep it a secret but werts secrets out now.

this is how I get basketball size lophs.