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What are the shamanic medicines for PTSD please?


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Hello I just got told I have PTSD for my birthday! wooo! <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_huh.png .

...as I understand it from a random channel 4 documentary not that long back on the box ...

MDA and her sisters seem to be tools of choice in the hands of some world renowned psychiatry majes of very high credibility ...

however , I can't use any (unless they want to include me in any legal trials down the line) and even if I could I wouldn't trust it from any avenues in my neck of the woods anyway..

In all my years of studying witchery, anthropology and magickal plants and their allies;

I haven't knowingly come across one for PTSD that I recall being utilized for that specific purpose.

Any clues me olde SABeroonies? <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_unsure.png

would love to know what ya think and any experience on the matter would be gratefully relished and muchly appreciated ..

bliss wishes and pretty fishes

-whorsey

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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hmm a hard and deep search coughed this http://www.wakingtimes.com/2012/12/12/soldiers-ptsd-and-the-shamanic-plant-medicine-iboga/ up

but dang I'm scared of failing to grow Iboga

would be hard maintaining 37-40C all year round...

but i found two iboga clinics on my island .... and found that ibogaine isnt illegal at all on my island either

... -dnno why but kinda scared of the Eboka this side of trying it... <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_unsure.png

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Hi horsey,, it's still early here for me but I'll have a go.

I think the treatments used surrounding MDMA and possibly LSD/shrooms are helpful if the user can on their own, or under trustworthy guidance, create positive thought process which in turn eliminates the consistent negative thought loops of PTSD. So I'm thinking you'll need the plant that is used to act on your sympathetic and/or empathic system. Focus on what you love during the experience and what really means the most to you. And never dose without the trustful guidance if you have the slightest feeling of despair.

Hope this helps at least a bit. I'm very interested in this treatment also. Not for myself, but for all the unfortunate peeps that have experienced something terrible, can now have hope that they can direct their energy into happiness. There has been some interesting and positive outcomes from MDMA trials here in Oz. When I come across any info I'll post here for ya if u like.

Best wishes bro

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Hang in there ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
I wish you all the best on your journey towards healing. Let me know if I can ever help you out.

I'd personally look into this approach:

Affective psychotherapy in post-traumatic reactions guided by affective neuroscience: memory reconsolidation and play.

This paper reviews the affective neuroscience dealing with the effects of traumatic events. We give an overview of the normal fear reactions, the pathological fear reaction, and the character of emotional episodic memories. We find that both emotions and emotional memories are a tripartite unit of sensory information, autonomic reaction, and motor impulse (the PRM complex). We propose that emotions and movements are part and parcel of the same complex. This is our main finding from the review of affective neuroscience, and from here we focus on psychotherapy with post-trauma reactions. The finding of the process of memory reconsolidation opens up a new treatment approach: affective psychotherapy focused on reconsolidation. The meaning of reconsolidation is that an emotional memory, when retrieved and being active, will rest in a labile form, amenable to change, for a brief period of time, until it reconsolidates in the memory. This leads us to the conclusion that emotions, affects, must be evoked during the treatment session and that positive emotion must come first, because safety must be part of the new memories. In the proposed protocol of affective psychotherapy based on reconsolidation the emotional episodic memory is relived in a safe and positive setting, focused in turn on the sensory experience, the autonomic reaction, and the motor impulse. Then it is followed by a fantasy of a different positive version of the same event. All in all treatment should provide a series of new memories without fear related to the original event. With the focus on the motor program, and the actions, there is a natural link to art therapy and to the mode of play, which can rehearse and fantasize new positive actions.

Basically, you want to have access to a positive emotion to start with and then engage in some therapy. Some of the methods you mention (that aren't available to you) allow for that empathic positive baseline to work with but there may be other things you have access to that could provide a positive state?

There's an art to the psychotherapy:

Therapeutic processes start from the development of a safe and enriched environment to activate positive approach motivational schemata utilising a bottom-up neurological approach, and proceed from a top-down approach to facilitate long-term change in neural architecture. Maintaining arousal within the window of tolerance ensures integration of top-down and bottom-up processing while keeping the social engagement system “online”. When the window of tolerance is narrow, as can often be the case with those who have experienced trauma, there can be a tendency to move into a hypo- or hyperaroused state in reaction to stimuli that activate implicit traumatic memories. In such states there is reflexive defensive reacting, rather than prefrontally mediated integrative and flexible responding to the stimuli. Rapid oscillations between hyper- and hypoarousal can take place in adesperate attempt to achieve regulation—a situation that has been likened to a “biphasic rollercoaster”.


From a neuropsychotherapy perspective, the importance of widening a client’s window of tolerance, especially in the case of trauma, becomes a central goal. Achieving this will increase a capacity to tolerate and integrate thoughts and feelings and keep the ventral vagal social engagement system operative.The implicit emotional memories (procedural memory) known to contribute strongly to motivational schemata are formed in the presence of strong emotion and stored in subcortical implicit memory circuits where they prove to be exceptionally durable. However, when such memory is activated and enters a liable state—a temporarily deconsolidated state or “reconsolidation window” that is opened up via a “mismatch” condition and lasts from four to five hours – it can be radically unlearned. The opportunity to interrupt or modify memory in this way has obvious implications for psychotherapy, especially in regard to those memories that make up core motivational schemata. This “discovery of the brain’s ability to delete a specific, unwanted emotional learning, including core, non-conscious beliefs and schemas, at the level of the physical, neural synapses that encode it in emotional memory” can lead to the complete and permanent elimination of psychological symptoms.

The feeling of safety within the therapeutic dyad is of fundamental importance to attenuate the destructive stress responses described above and to take advantage of controllable incongruence as a mechanism of change. A client who is held in a space of trust and security and can engage within their window of tolerance will be able to take advantage of the brain’s natural neuroplasticity.

Research has shown that “a safe, enriched environment actually facilitates the development of new neural patterns, which, in turn, leads to enhanced attachment and control, and stress reduction. Psychotherapeutic approaches that provide safe environments will thus enhance the positive social interaction that is an essential element of healthy neural proliferation”. To establish such a safe environment requires a down-regulation of avoidance motivational schemas that may be activated. This is essentially a bottom-up approach of dealing with the physiological stress response before being able to facilitate effective neural change and proliferation. The affectively focused right brain-to-right brain therapeutic relationship, mediated via so-called “mirror neuron” activity, can be effective at establishing safety for a client by down-regulating limbic reactivity and communicating an empathic, supportive relationship that satisfies the basic need for attachment.

A safe therapeutic relationship creates the ideal environment for facilitating neural proliferation in an integrative manner, as the nervous system is essentially a social-centric system that thrives on interpersonal love, acceptance, and security.” [link]

If you're after some botanical psychopharmacological shamanism:

Chinese herbal formula, Xiao-Tan-Jie-Yu

Traditional Japanese Herbal Medicine, Saikokeishikankyoto

L-theanine

One pharmacological approach which has been extensively researched is the use of propranolol. Basically, when combined with therapy, it's possible to reactivate fear/trauma memories under the influence of propranolol (or when taken at a suitable time near the memory reactivation) so they become less aversive when they reconsolidate. This may be an effective line of investigation when it is not possible to sustain the prior positive affect required in the Hogberg et al. approach detailed above.

D-cycloserine has similar potential.

If fear is a factor:

Disrupting Reconsolidation of Fear Memory in Humans by a Noradrenergic β-Blocker.

Cannabidiol treatment

Modulation of fear memory by dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids via cannabinoid receptors.

A Diet Enriched With Curcumin Impairs Newly Acquired and Reactivated Fear Memories.

There are a few reviews you might find interesting:

Pharmacology of cognitive enhancers for exposure-based therapy of fear, anxiety and trauma-related disorders.

Pathological fear and anxiety are highly debilitating and, despite considerable advances in psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy they remain insufficiently treated in many patients with PTSD, phobias, panic and other anxiety disorders. Increasing preclinical and clinical evidence indicates that pharmacological treatments including cognitive enhancers, when given as adjuncts to psychotherapeutic approaches [cognitive behavioral therapy including extinction-based exposure therapy] enhance treatment efficacy, while using anxiolytics such as benzodiazepines as adjuncts can undermine long-term treatment success. The purpose of this review is to outline the literature showing how pharmacological interventions targeting neurotransmitter systems including serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, histamine, glutamate, GABA, cannabinoids, neuropeptides (oxytocin, neuropeptides Y and S, opioids) and other targets (neurotrophins BDNF and FGF2, glucocorticoids, L-type-calcium channels, epigenetic modifications) as well as their downstream signaling pathways, can augment fear extinction and strengthen extinction memory persistently in preclinical models. Particularly promising approaches are discussed in regard to their effects on specific aspects of fear extinction namely, acquisition, consolidation and retrieval, including long-term protection from return of fear (relapse) phenomena like spontaneous recovery, reinstatement and renewal of fear. We also highlight the promising translational value of the preclinial research and the clinical potential of targeting certain neurochemical systems with, for example D-cycloserine, yohimbine, cortisol, and L-DOPA. The current body of research reveals important new insights into the neurobiology and neurochemistry of fear extinction and holds significant promise for pharmacologically-augmented psychotherapy as an improved approach to treat trauma and anxiety-related disorders in a more efficient and persistent way promoting enhanced symptom remission and recovery.

Noradrenergic Regulation of Fear and Drug-Associated Memory Reconsolidation

Emotional and traumatic experiences lead to the development of particularly strong memories that can drive neuropsychiatric disorders, such as posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and drug addiction. Disruption of these memories would therefore serve as a powerful treatment option, and targeting the pathologic emotional, but not declarative, component of a memory would be ideal for clinical intervention. Research reveals that after retrieval of a consolidated memory, the memory can be destabilized, and must then be reconsolidated through synaptic plasticity to allow subsequent retrieval. Disruption of reconsolidation-related plasticity would therefore impair specific, reactivated memories. Noradrenergic signaling strengthens synaptic plasticity and is essential for encoding the emotional components of memory. Consistent with this, investigations have now revealed that noradrenergic signaling is a critical mechanism for reconsolidation of emotional memories in rodent and human models. Here, we discuss these investigations and promising clinical trials indicating that disruption of noradrenergic signaling during reconsolidation may abolish the pathologic emotional, but not declarative, component of memories allowing alleviation of neuropsychiatric disorders including PTSD and drug addiction.

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Ty kindly Upside , glad to read any info on it all of a sudden, <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_rolleyes.gif

I skimmed the subject a few times in the past for a friend who was in iraq, bosnia and afghan and still now wading through PTSD but he wasn't really interested and had no other encounter with it in anybody else that I was close enough to get a chat to about it with.

it's interesting, that about alice and shroobies ,..,

regarding the shroobie doos, AHOAH has been low dose busting clusterheadaches whenever possible since finding busters site and that's how i learned of MAPS initially too..

also one of the dark and evil reasons a horse joined the entho community muahahaa!

was to infiltrate !.... and capture a psychotria eyedrop tek <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_devil.gif !! ... and go tell the busters what I learned... but I fell in love with ya all on the way <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_innocent_n.gif

but back to "the capped ones" ... maybe the dose has been too low for psychiatric benefit above busting relief?

once upon a moon ago there was a misunderstood recipe where 100 liberty was swapped for waves and .....

never seen an ass so well kicked into spirit world as this one back then...

so a healthy respectful fear still knocks about in the paddocks ...

-all food for the mind tho lol but still,..definitely inclined...

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Ty kindly too Alchemica that's a nice concise looking read to get stuck into I really appreciate your help there.

-and as long as i got my whipper snappers to watch out for and my plants to employ me , I'll be firmly anchored.

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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Psylocke she most definitely is but I'ze yet to fly her in any way different to low rate s'rue and shrooby doo twice

amd as miniscule smoke mix additions

i grow as many kinds of her as i can locate but they are young and virtually all from seed sowed in the last couple of years ...

fave part about it is my dreams they visit when germinating .. <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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My mate in England was diagnosed with cluster headaches. His doc put him onto steroids ?? Wtf ?? Anyway, he came across cluster busters also. He now treats his symptoms with home grown shrooms. Saves himself a lot of loot too.

Keen to hear more about the psychotria eye drops.

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why does this thread have a button saying "mark solved" ? its not an ID thread kind of thing is it?

i hope i created this in the right part of the site

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@ Upside

https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1264364316/3

not sure but may have been on a steroid too initially prednisosomething ... but had to fk it off along with verapamil after an increase of 2 headaches on top of the usual load and i couldnt keep up with their constant ecg attending needs <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_innocent_n.gif

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As has already been mentioned above MDMA has definitely factored in PTSD therapy. I would expect cannabis to be of significant benefit, and I would be suprised if there is nothing you can dredge up from the US legal states regarding vet's PTSD and cannabis as treatment.

To address your mushroom question is a difficult task. I remember posting a thread about a John's Hopkins studies and moderate to high doses having promising outcomes for depression and the terminally ill. I think...

I think it is good to talk in terms of dosage using cubensis as a standard, as they are so widely and easily cultivated, and aren't the most potent psilocybes. I would imagine a so-called 'moderate' dose would be in the realm of 4 to 5 dried grams, with 'high' being 5 +? Again speculating at best here.

Regardless of the sacred plant teacher/substance in question, it all comes down to being given an opportunity to have a good look through the heart and seeing what the issue is. If you can do that with meditation, counselling and/or psychotherapy great! If not psychedelics have got our backs my brothers and sisters. Always have, always will.

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since it's a recent addition to my chemistry and in case of some daft interaction...

I dnno if I should add that Ive just been prescribed a calcium blocker called flunarizin but i think thats mainly for prevention of hemiplegic migraine /paralasys of one complete half of the body..

and some imigran/imitrex (sumatriptan) nasal spray will be in the pipeline -along with the existing xylocaine spray-

despite having tried their triptans to no avail orally in the past, and with a view to injections as a backup

bit wierd and scary i thought too; but new GP wants to give citalopram/cipralex with this ...

when my (now retired) GP i had from childhood told me i had to wean off that shit so as to try the initial sumatriptan and rizatriptan in the past in case of a dangerous combination ... still trying to see a diff Dr now...

-although a buster told me it's had prescedent of being combined successfully but i'm still much against rattling anymore like a pill box anyway after seeing how it just wrecked my mum!

but yeah figured since some of you are really well chemistry minded and will probably like all the cards down on the table as early as possible..

and big thanks all

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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@Responsible Choice

eating or toaking the flowers?

and i read wavynescens can be cubes to the power 3-5

...and are all there's been except once libs and once hollandia so kinda staple.

Still a stranger to cubes so far but they're very pretty and fascinating to read about

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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seeing as mescaline is quite similar to mdma i always wondered if it may have similar or even superior therapeutic potential. but i can't find a lot of research on it

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Mdma and mescaline are worlds apart imho.

Another take is western medicine. I suffered servere ptsd after an event i really dont want to recal but i can honestly say the wesern medicine of choice dramaticaly changed my wellbeing for the better.

The med is called olanzapine and is traditionaly used to help those with schizoprenia and bi polar disorders.

If you have a good doctor they will write you off as bi polar so you can get the meds on pbs.

Sorry im not contributing on medicinal plants as you asked just thought ide put another angle out there from experiance.

Shrooms make me happy while on them but not much of a long term remedy similar experiance with mdma. Lsd is a differant story. Much mental healing can be achived through appropriate use.

Ps i want to know more about the eye drops to. Maybe you can start a new topic on them.

Good luck.

Wert

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I would suggest a balanced to CBD-heavier strain, and then just working through ingestion and delivery modes and potency/dose.

...and this link re US vets:

http://veteransformedicalmarijuana.org/content/general-use-cannabis-ptsd-symptoms

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MAPS is having good results with MDMA assisted psychotherapy to treat PTSD. I don't know the details, but the impression I get is that it allows them to talk about the experience and then move on organically.

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@discostu - me neither and digging hard too

@wert thanks for the experience on it I only met alice once in '96

but already had a misdiag of bp just after the millenium and had olan' in the form of zyprexa and hated it,

it was that in particular that made me begin an interest in the medical system and then pharmacology and then history and then witchery and then plant medicines and shamanism and then full circle back to my original loves of nature, the wild and botany

.... so I guess I should thank the experience outcome but zyprex cost me many years of my life.. and then i was told i was misdiagnosed in 2012 and not bp at all...

not feeling the bp path but hell I made so many friends in those realms and in a select few schitzophrenics..

thanks for sharing you guys

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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@ mauve

yeah kinda not though atm , its a long story .. sofa surfing atm and trying to get a new pad to move em to.

I cant munch any cactus anyway, except for dragon fruits maybe..

and I'm not cutting any cactus because they need to flower as early as possible to make seeds

and i cant afford to set them back -or munch them on my island,

but thanks for the input still since it's a valid answer to the question along with Discostu's preliminary...

just because I can't; doesn't mean others in a similar boat on a different river can't <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

or i could travel abroad to a country like peruu and have some but I'm not really in a position for island hopping yet.

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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still wondering about Iboga ...

there's 2 clinics , one closer to me than the other but Im thinking it should be really a hut in a woods setting rather than a clinic

if you catch my driftage

also , does anybody know any natural sources of FAAH inhibitors ?

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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