hostilis Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Hello everyone. I wanted to get your thoughts on this. I think I have an L. alberto hybrid. It came from some Lophophora alberto seeds I have (before I got ripped off via trade) and this plant came out of it. It has characteristics of aberto and those of other non-dwarf species. I think it may possibly be an alberto x diffusa. It has had many fruits and they all have been white/yellow and have the same citrus-ish taste of the pure yellow alberto fruits. Rather than the strawberry-ish taste of the pink williamsii fruits. Alberto qualities: Flowers at 1cm White pistil in the flower Yellow fruits Diffusa qualities. Big tufts of fur Fast growth rate Big white flower Here are some pictures of it. First flower at a little over 1cm Yellow fruit More flower pictures What do you guys think. Lophophora alberto hybrid or just a different type of variation of alberto? Thanks, hostilis Edited December 31, 2014 by hostilis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huachu Ma Posted December 31, 2014 L. alberto-vojtechii is a form of l. diffusa. I think it is normal that it can have caracteristics of l. diffusa. Greetings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huachu Ma Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) sorry. Double post Edited December 31, 2014 by huachuma de alemania 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted December 31, 2014 I didn't know this. Good to know. Although I've never seen an alberto with a tuft or growth rate like this. Do you think it is possible it could be crossed with diffusa? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huachu Ma Posted December 31, 2014 I think its only a effect of grafting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I have other albertos on grafts too and they are not acting like this. Same conditions. I can tell which seedlings are this type and which are the dwarf alberto types. This type acts the same on all of the grafts I've done with it. I have a few of them. The full on dwarf ones grow suuuuper slow even on grafts and they do not grow tufts. Although they have yellow fruits and start flowering at 1cm So it's not the grafting that's causing it. This one is a normal dwarf non-tufted alberto type (Loc. coahuila) Edited December 31, 2014 by hostilis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Here's an exapmle. This one is way older and it's a lot smaller. It's a dwarf alberto showing no characteristics of diffusa. I have 10 others on grafts too and none of them are shoing the characteristics of the one I suspect is a hybrid. No fast growth rate, no tufts, no big white flowers. Loc. Zacatecas Edited December 31, 2014 by hostilis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted January 1, 2015 I should also mention that the plant in the original post is self fertile. The other alberto's aren't. Not sure what to think of that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mushroomman Posted January 1, 2015 Hey hostilis is that an alberto from wermlanddesertplants seed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted January 1, 2015 The flower looks more like koehresii too me. Williamsii is the only self-fertile species though. Kada did some crossing experiments and the only cross he got to work was koehresii x fricii with fricii as the father plant. The resulting offspring were self-sterile. That said he didnt try alberto-vojtechii. I kinda remember williamsii having pinkish coloured styles where as the other species were much more white in colour. How sure are you that it is self-fertile and that some devilish bug isnt doing some pollination for you? Id also be thinking that maybe the seed you grew it from wasnt all alberto-vojtechii or there was a labelling error on your end? Check the seed under a microscope and compare against the other species. Seed today is highly variable in forms, grafting doesnt help show natural characteristics much either so Id be hesitant to say its a hybrid just yet. Nice plant by the way 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Yes Mushroomman. So are some of my full on dwarf ones. It seems like a mix of pure albertos and either hybrids or just non dwarf albertos. It may be that they were somehow pollinated with my other albertos. It hasn't made fruits from every flower. But they all have been yellow fruits and they taste just like alberto fruits. Which have a more citrus flavor. They also only make q1-5 seeds per fruit just like all my other pure dwarf albertos. And it definitely came from my alberto seeds. I have them all carefully labelled and I keep track of it all. Some of the dwarf albertos came out of those seeds too. About 50% were dwarf albertos and the other were this type of hybrid/non dwarf. I really do think it was cross pollinated with something. Maybe koehresii like you said. Here are some other of the super slow growing ones. They're also more flat than the ones I suspect are hybrids. The second picture is from the same set of seeds and was started/grafted at the same time, but it is REALLY slooooow growing and has no tuft. Edited January 1, 2015 by hostilis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted January 1, 2015 Yeah thats tricky. It could just be the impact of cultivation on the species. There may be something in the native environment that selects against the larger a-v thus making the population appear to be dwarfs, cultivation doesnt have the same selective pressures as the wild as such the larger a-v's have built up some genetics and become more common. Im guess a-v seed in cultivation has been though quite a few generations now. The simplest explanation is often the best. Have you seen others report these larger a-v's before? The problem with cultivation of cacti is we dont really select for healthy strong plants, in fact we kinda like the freaks. See if they're fertile with the dwarf a-v's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted January 2, 2015 I did cross one flower back with the dwarf AV and got seeds. I'll plant them and maybe graft one and see what happens. I also have a ton of these all on their own roots. Can't wait till they're older. It definitely has the AV fruit and some of the AV flower characteristics (White pistil.) Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I also used pollen from this one on a dwarf AV and williamsii. Both produced seeds, but the williamsii makes seeds even without pollination so it'll be hard to tell if that one took. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hostilis Posted January 2, 2015 And I have heard of people getting fast growing lophs out of AV seeds. They usually think it's a different species. I've never seen one with tuft and fast growth rate yet still having the yellow fruits though. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
