MrBumpy Posted July 22, 2003 if you don't believe me...meth manufacturers are being being prosecuted as terrorists http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellit...h=!frontpage&s= -bumpy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 23, 2003 I don't know what the whole fuzz about methamphetamine is about. People (cops) are killing other people (victims) for the use of methamphetamine, especially in Thailand. Life is very hard in Thailand, and people need to cope. Methamphetamine helps them cope( what? you're a thai cop and don't like that? Then build them a better country! Give them ten acres of land with every baby! And the dole! Maybe then they won't need drugs anymore! But don't punsih them for taking drugs!) , and sure, it may be detrimental to health, but I talked to someone who knew someone in Thailand who took these things continuously and it helped that person to stay off heroin, so that's good isn't it. But the Bastard Thai Government gives it's cops the power to shoot anyone who may be remotely connected with drug consumption and drug trade, and I reckon that the whole bloody thai government deserves to be shot. here's the rundown on methamphetamine in Thailand. (from the dea) People NEED it so why not let them use it. Fuck you, Thai Government! (And the Malaysian Government, anytime! And..., and... and...) YA-BA"/"THAI TABS" METHAMPHETAMINE TABLETS - AN OVERVIEW Photo 7 Ya-Ba ("yah-bah", Thai slang for "mad medicine") originated in Southeast Asia's Golden Triangle region – the drug producing area that straddles the borders of Burma, Laos, and Thailand that was the world's top opium/heroin producing region for many decades. At present, most Ya-Ba tablets are produced in Myanmar (Burma). Over the past five years, Ya-Ba (more commonly referred to as "Thai Tabs" within the United States) has become the most abused drug in Thailand. On May 12, 2003 the Reuters News Service reported that there are currently 2.5 million Thai users (equal to 4 – 5 percent of the population), spending 2 billion U.S. dollars (USD) a year on Ya-Ba tablets. In 2001, an individual Ya-Ba tablet sold for about 50 baht (about $1.20 USD). However, since the beginning of May 2003, the Thailand government has arrested 58,000 drug traffickers and dealers in a highly aggressive counter-narcotics campaign, driving the price per tablet to about 300 baht ( about $7.00 USD). As of June 2003, the Source Determination Program (SDP) at the Special Testing and Research Laboratory (Dulles, Virginia) had analyzed over 450 Thai Tab exhibits. The results of these analyses indicate there are at least 90 different tablet die sets in operation (therefore, there may be as many as 90 different clandestine sources). Thai Tabs encountered in the SDP have been red, orange or green (see Photo 7). The tablets are typically ¼ inch diameter, round, unscored, biconvex tablets which weigh 90-100 milligrams each. These dimensions are smaller, thinner, and lighter than typical Ecstasy tablets (for which they are sometimes mistaken by U.S. users and forensic chemists). Also in contrast to Ecstasy tablets, Thai Tabs have very few monograms. The four most common are: "WY", "wY", "Wy" and "wy." Additional, less common monograms include "M99", "R", "888" and "555". Chemical analyses indicates that the average Thai tablet contains 25 - 30 mg of d-methamphetamine hydrochloride and 50-60 mg of caffeine. However, the SDP has determined that the amount of both d-methamphetamine hydrochloride and caffeine can vary greatly (i.e., from 1 - 47 mg/tablet and 11 - 97 mg/tablet, respectively). Other drugs found in Thai Tabs include: Phenacetin, theophylline, amphetamine sulfate, ephedrine and dimethylamphetamine. A small amount of ethyl vanillin is also typically present, and is included to mask the residual chemical odor from the crude, clandestine manufacturing processes. Despite their form, Thai Tabs are not intended for oral consumption. Rather, they are smoked for a stronger, faster high, similar to the way heroin is smoked when one "chases the dragon", or the smoking of "Ice" methamphetamine. The solid dosage form (tablet) allows for easier manipulation with smoking paraphernalia. Due to their superficial similarity with Ecstasy tablets, however, Thai Tabs are occasionally mistaken for and taken as Ecstasy by U.S. users. In addition, an increasing number of "classic" design Ecstasy tablets - not Thai Tabs - have been found to include methamphetamine as an added component or as the sole controlled substance. A recent survey of all "classic" Ecstasy tablets that had ever been analyzed by the SDP indicated that 2.5 percent contained a mixture of MDMA and methamphetamine, and 3 percent contained methamphetamine only. Again, however, these latter tablets are not Thai Tabs, but rather are so-called MDMA "mimic" tablets containing methamphetamine. Ya-Ba is commonly seen throughout eastern Asia, southeastern Asia, the East Indies, and Australia. Some recent seizures in those areas totaled hundreds of thousands to millions of tablets. U.S. Customs Service personnel have recently seized Thai Tabs in California, Hawaii, and other western states. In contrast to the seizures in southeastern Asia, however, thus far the typical seizure in the U.S. is 500 - 1000 tablets, usually found concealed in international mail packages sent from one family member in Asia to another in the U.S. However, this problem is expected to increase in the future. * * * * * [ 22. July 2003, 19:44: Message edited by: gomaos ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted July 23, 2003 The two biggest killers are the legal ones!! We in OZ should realise the damage we have done by taking aboriginals lives and fucking them over...yet we still sell them a flagon and a pack of white ox!! Do we shoot them or the grog shop attendant? NO we just wait for the indigenous peoples to hang themselves in white custody(spit on floor!!) It's interesting that the word 'Government' means to govern,or RESTRICT-not make safe. (Flippin the bird) [ 23. July 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: mescalito ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted July 23, 2003 [ 23. July 2003, 03:20: Message edited by: mescalito ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 23, 2003 "knew someone in Thailand who took these things continuously and it helped that person to stay off heroin, so that's good isn't it."????- sorry geezer, while i generally agree w/the tone ov your piece, that line is highly debatable. my opinion is that there's little physical harm done by being addicted to medical grade heroin- the majority ov the stuff in thailand; & you certainly wont see a junky get ultra violent for any reason. surely we are all aware ov the massive amount ov damage speed does to the body & the mind? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 23, 2003 as to drugs supporting terrorism/war- that's kind ov inevitable, the CIA learned about this early on, hence the cocaine for the contras shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 23, 2003 "knew someone in Thailand who took these things continuously and it helped that person to stay off heroin, so that's good isn't it."????- sorry geezer, while i generally agree w/the tone ov your piece, that line is highly debatable. my opinion is that there's little physical harm done by being addicted to medical grade heroin- the majority ov the stuff in thailand; & you certainly wont see a junky get ultra violent for any reason. surely we are all aware ov the massive amount ov damage speed does to the body & the mind Well that's very debatble. The person I know actually spent several months with that other person, and both of them smoked those tablets. When asked bout heroin, the addicted person just shuddered... It must have been terrible to be junkie... bear in mind that thai tabs are mainly smoked and not injected. So that's a definite improvement, because injecting anything on a regular basis will run your body down... much more so than smoking MA. I can't understand why in Australia the preferred way of Amphetamine consumption is shooting up... That's just simply stupid.... or being greedy... Finally, during the couple of months there, no aggressive outbursts were observed, on the contrary the person in question spend night after night doing constructive and creative things like painting, producing small address books and wallets for sale on the markets... please also note that the visiting person at the time had no idea what the substance in these tabs was and only found out years later... Person B, the visitor, observed no averse side effects exept addiction... upon returning from Thailand to home country person b went straight from MA addiction to Alc addiction... no problem... The other good thing about smoking those tabs was that person b lost a lot of weight, which that person of course put rapidly back on when in home country on alc... So MA is not quite as bad as the media make it... as long as people refrain from shooting it up... shooting up ANYTHING is bad (may I include IM ketamine... for the simple reasom that the barrier to the needle comes down...) MA is good for night workers and slimming... just in my opinion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 23, 2003 gomaos- yes, i agree that it's debateable. as far as i can see the only damage from medical grade smack is from the constant shooting up, & w/some practice & guidance this risk can be lessened- you can also smoke smack. once saw a doco where they asked 3 surgeons who they'd rather be operated on by, a) a heroin addict, an alcaholic & c) a barbiturate addict, all 3, w/no hesitation, said that as long as the surgeon was using medical grade heroin(this was in the UK, where it's still used in hospital), there would be absolutely no way ov telling, whereas alc & barbs cause tremors which would make surgery difficult. it's the crap they mix w/the smack that fucks up livers & kidneys. on the other hand the "crazy pills" in thailand are called that for a specific reason. god knows whats in them, & it's beyond doubt that speed really fucks you- it literally strips the calcium from your body, & yeah you loose weight- but not in a healthy way, more a malnutrition kind ov way. if we take william burroughs, or keith richards as examples ov 20+ years mainlining heroin, then try & think what a 20+ year speed shooter would look like- who comes out best? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smiling Cloud Posted July 23, 2003 There's no such thing as somoeone who uses speed for 20 yrs, they either die or go crazy. And its not the speed that fucks people's minds, its the lack of sleep. My gnome stayed awake for 5 days on ice (or so it seemed to him, apparently he just dropped on the 3rd and 4th day/night) and by the end of it was starting to hear voices. They stopped when the ice did though. But I agree that MA is GREAT for work, study and any other situation that needs constant attention and a fair bit of alertness. BTW the above gnomes situation was purely for study purposes, and he went fairly well in his exams... YAY THat gnome of mine hates the shit for recreational purposes but has no hesitation in using it when it is called for. Or work, work, work society needs it I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBumpy Posted July 23, 2003 Smiling Cloud : don't you know that high school students have discovered the benefits of stimulants while studying? You'd be surprised how many students with 'learning disabilities' from year 10 upwards stop taking their medication (ritalin, and to a lesser extent Dex) and start giving/selling them to other students who use them for the stimulant properties. -bumpy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted July 23, 2003 in arabic countries the students use qat, to help with there studies... i mean that makes them look forward to study time. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 23, 2003 Just wanted to add that in countries like thailand people simply can't afford to be "out" on heroin, or even stoned on cannabis(one argument was that cannabis makes you hungry and certain people just can't afford to be fat), they have to work all the time to survive that's why the need for amphetamine. The thing that upsets me, that the governments in such places whose fault it is in the first place that people have to live under such conditions then punish and even kill their people for trying to cope. Pooey on these governments and I really wish them the worst! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted July 24, 2003 It's happening in our own back yard Gomaos,seems like the 'cultured' countries are slower on the up-take,that's all F.T.G.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 24, 2003 gomaos- but if the going rate for one ov those pills is 300 baht- i'm sure i read that somewhere- it makes it as/more expensive than smack in thailand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 24, 2003 Abraxas... yes 300 baht sounds horribly expensive. Person B told me they were 100 baht six years ago...that's what person A said then. I don't really care about the stupid meth... what upsets me most is that a state like thailand has no social services, no dole, no help for mothers and children, favours the rich and exploits the poor, and then goes around shooting the poor bastards who need the stuff... that enrages me endlessly! And then the stupid redneck tourists come and say: "What a nice beach, what lovely temples, what horny women..."... but they don't care at all what happens to citizens of that country... I've even heard right wing tourists saying: "Oh it's great now they're really cleaning up the place..." Why not just go around then and shoot every one who's poor and hasn't got a job and no money? That's what it amounts to in the end... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 25, 2003 well, Gomoas, with that i agree completely. to maybe lift the mood; do you see any hope? [ 25. July 2003, 09:35: Message edited by: nabraxas ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 25, 2003 Re hope: not really I see "punishing people for drug consumption" s an evil disease of the mind, a bully attitude. I.e. the government says: "This is the life you have to live: Be a part of the capitalist machine. If you can't be on top, then serve those who are top top well and be exploited by them. For recreation, you have tv, sports and alcohol. Drugs are prohibited (because they may change a person's outlook of life,'open theireyes' to the scammy government and it's supporters.) The govt says drugs are prohibited for health reasons, which is a big fat lie. You can go kill yourself skiing, playing footy, boxing, that's fine. You can go kill yourself working in toxic factories, that's great because it supports capitalism... etc.. etc. I blame the USA for drugs being illegal in most countries. In 1980 Thailand/Pukhet was still a sleepy village of bamboo huts, drugs were cheap and easy to get, the police didn't bother anyone. Now look at Pukhet: Hard to distinguish from the Gold Coast (that dump!) Nepal, in the late seventies: All sorts of drugs were being sold in Government shops. The USA stopped that too. As far as I know they still have government shops for drugs in India, because India tells the USA government to get fucked! (I hope they still do) The USA bombs Columbia to wipe out cocaine... a substance that is very traditional in South America. In Germany it used to be legal to have your own poppy patch.... not in modern, US-oriented times... In short: Unless the US kick that stupid wanker Bush out of office and elect someone decent and sensible, there is no hope for the world, not just regarding drugs.... I bet if the US went soft on drugs, the rest of the world would too... which would be very desirable... Because really, if drugs are taken sensibly there is totally nothing wrong with them. They may even prevent suicides etc. just my 2c Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
